Canon EOS Rebel SL2 Confirmed for 2017 [CR3]

[Don Haines]

Re: Canon EOS Rebel SL2 Confirmed in 2017 [CR3]

My laptop from 2010 is still running fine, but I also only run Linux on that machine so I'm not sure if that's a counter-point or supportive of your argument (that I haven't really bothered to read the context of).

My desktop has a Core i7 from 2009. It runs everything fine. Photoshop, LR, games, whatever you throw at it. Current equivalent offerings are at at most twice as fast. Been a while since CPU speeds doubled every eighteen months.

CPU speed has stagnated almost completely. Clock speeds are totally static. You get more cores, but only if you're prepared to pay INSANE prices, especially with Xeons. Power consumption is going down a bit. CPU speed for a given power consumption is going up, very slowly.

But for actual CPU speed per core... Basically, it is not increasing. It has stopped.

if you are dealing with a single threaded process, it can run slower when you add more cores! Turning hyperthreading off can improve speed....

The real improvement with "new" computers is faster solid state drives and GPU processing on your video card. If your software supports GPU processing, buying a decent video card makes much more difference than buying a new computer...

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Canon EOS Rebel SL2 Confirmed in 2017 [CR3]

CPU speed has stagnated almost completely. Clock speeds are totally static. You get more cores, but only if you're prepared to pay INSANE prices, especially with Xeons. Power consumption is going down a bit. CPU speed for a given power consumption is going up, very slowly.

But for actual CPU speed per core... Basically, it is not increasing. It has stopped.

+1. I can't speak to how factual that is (I'm not terribly well read on this), but I can share an anecdote that might reflect that.

Photos/web/life/this forum/etc. --> I'm on my Mac. Much like Neuro said, I have zero problems with it, even if I could get zippier performance in a less reliable and more frustrating Windows machine.

But I have a second box for gaming, and it's a windows PC. I don't game that much these days (I knock out perhaps 2-3 large time commitment titles per year), but I have that second rig built expressly for gaming and I replace it every 5-6 years or so -- sometimes upgrading the vid card / GPU long the way.

Anyway, A friend of mine is a chief egghead at 3D engine programming/optimization for the huge AAA video games, so I rely on him for spec'ing the new build each time. My rig is 6-ish years old, so I thought the mid-cycle vid/GPU swap wouldn't cut it at this stage and I'd need an altogether new mobo/CPU/etc.

Not so.

Since yours truly he had the foresight to spec a six core CPU all those years ago and that processor still easily punches its weight versus today's consoles, he said all I needed -- even six years later -- was a new vid card and I'd be back to buttery framerates at high settings on the latest games. Go figure.

- A

 

[Don Haines]

Re: Canon EOS Rebel SL2 Confirmed in 2017 [CR3]

CPU speed has stagnated almost completely. Clock speeds are totally static. You get more cores, but only if you're prepared to pay INSANE prices, especially with Xeons. Power consumption is going down a bit. CPU speed for a given power consumption is going up, very slowly.

But for actual CPU speed per core... Basically, it is not increasing. It has stopped.

+1. I can't speak to how factual that is (I'm not terribly well read on this), but I can share an anecdote that might reflect that.

Photos/web/life/this forum/etc. --> I'm on my Mac. Much like Neuro said, I have zero problems with it, even if I could get zippier performance in a less reliable and more frustrating Windows machine.

But I have a second box for gaming, and it's a windows PC. I don't game that much these days (I knock out perhaps 2-3 large time commitment titles per year), but I have that second rig built expressly for gaming and I replace it every 5-6 years or so -- sometimes upgrading the vid card / GPU long the way.

Anyway, A friend of mine is a chief egghead at 3D engine programming/optimization for the huge AAA video games, so I rely on him for spec'ing the new build each time. My rig is 6-ish years old, so I thought the mid-cycle vid/GPU swap wouldn't cut it at this stage and I'd need an altogether new mobo/CPU/etc.

Not so.

Since yours truly he had the foresight to spec a six core CPU all those years ago and that processor still easily punches its weight versus today's consoles, he said all I needed -- even six years later -- was a new vid card and I'd be back to buttery framerates at high settings on the latest games. Go figure.

- A

Yup! A good video card. I recently upgraded mine and yes, it certainly makes a difference.... plus it supports 8K video......now if I only had an 8K monitor........

 

[benkam]

Re: Canon EOS Rebel SL2 Confirmed in 2017 [CR3]

Anyway, A friend of mine is a chief egghead at 3D engine programming/optimization for the huge AAA video games, so I rely on him for spec'ing the new build each time. My rig is 6-ish years old, so I thought the mid-cycle vid/GPU swap wouldn't cut it at this stage and I'd need an altogether new mobo/CPU/etc.

Not so.

Since yours truly he had the foresight to spec a six core CPU all those years ago and that processor still easily punches its weight versus today's consoles, he said all I needed -- even six years later -- was a new vid card and I'd be back to buttery framerates at high settings on the latest games. Go figure.

That's because GPUs, which are optimized for that task have become much more sophisticated than CPUs. Much more. As in CPUs may have a few or several "cores" but GPUs can have hundreds and into the future, potentially, thousands! When it comes to gaming and other intensive graphics, the CPU is just there for the ride, the GPUs are the ones throwing things around.

I still remember the old video chips and cards and now some of these GPUs, even the so-called dedicated entry-level or mid-range ones, are quite mind-boggling. In photography terms, I'm thinking if the body is the CPU and the lens the GPU, it's like you were shooting birds, happy and content, with a classic 7D and an 18-135 and then somebody hands you a 100-400 or even a 600 to play with, I reckon you'd be a fair bit happier even if you keep the old body.

 

[slclick]

Just jumping in might think the SL2 was a laptop.

 

[Loswr]

Just jumping in might think the SL2 was a laptop.

No, I think we all know that it's a camera. The question is, who makes it?

 

[bf]

I want to see how SL2 will look next to M5! EVF vs. OVF,EF-M mount vs. EF-S.

I guess the SL2 will pretty much look like the SL1. So, ... actually there's not too much difference in terms of size when compared to the M5, when the EF/EF-M adapter is attached (in my case I never detach it because I do only have FF lenses): http://j.mp/2ldMb4s

One big advantage of the OVF will be the much much lower energy consumption. You can effectively get a lot more shots out of your rebel with one battery.

I come from the EOS 6D (sold it to buy the M5) and I do not miss its OVF. One big reason being the live exposure preview which really helps getting exactly what I want. I do not have any problems with the downside of an EVF that it consumes a lot more energy, as I always carry a (Canon) spare battery with me, so I do not have any worries.

And with mirrorless you never have to worry about front- or backfocus. I know there are things like AFMA, but... will it be featured in a rebel SL2? I'm not so sure.

There are tons of advantages and disadvantages. In fact, if the SL2 was available at the time I bought my M5, I'd have had a hard decision which one to buy, as long as the DSLR offers a flippy screen and at least the same low iso DR as the 80D/M5.

Once, I had the rebel SL1 in my hands. It felt really great. Nice finish. Nice ergonomics. I just missed the flippy screen and I didn't want to buy the same old 18MP sensor I already had many years ago with my EOS 600D.

Maybe the SL2 will get a hybrid VF? Who knows.

To me SL1 body was very hard. I hope they implement a softer grip similar to EOS-M5. M5 is a more retro looking camera with a thinner body due to hosting ef-m mount and no mirror. Weight and volume are almost identical. The feel and taste would be different on these.

 

[Crosswind]

To me SL1 body was very hard. I hope they implement a softer grip similar to EOS-M5.

True that. The SL1's body might feel a bit "harder", but it is actually made out of good quality plastics (unlike the M5) - at least that was my impression.

 

[derekmccoy]

Re: Canon EOS Rebel SL2 Confirmed in 2017 [CR3]

Core i5 2.53 GHz vs. Core i7 2.6 GHz, but to clarify I wasn't referring to performance in a Geekbench-type test, but rather operational performance – opening and scrolling through a 150 MB PowerPoint file, for example. I can count on my Win PC to crash occasionally, to have Office365 apps hang and need a process force quit occasionally or system restart. The only time I ever need to reboot my Mac is when a software update requires it, and the only apps that crash or hang are niche, coded-in-my-basement things like FoCal.

As for power, yeah - the Lenovo will last quite a bit longer on battery than my 17" MB Pro (but not as long as my previous MB Air).

You didn't list actual models there, but I'd look at what's wrong with your Windows laptop. It should be able to do much more than that smoothly, and mine reboots for security updates, essentially.

And it's hardly as if Apple products never break; quite the opposite in my experience. But I'll let this wonderful rabbit hole go, because it's clearly about your subjective preference.

I have a 2011 i5 MacBook Air, runs just like new if not faster with the new Mac OS. I also have a 12 month old HP 840 with an i5 and twice as much RAM as the MacBook. It runs dog slow in comparison. The MacBook is just responsive and everything is fluid when doing things. The HP feels cluncky and jerky when doing the most basic tasks.
Apple simply makes better, more efficient hardware and software. Microsoft is know for making terrible operating systems and software in general, so it's no wonder the difference is marked. Even the way they arrange the UI elements and their poor choice of typefaces, it makes me cringe. If you dig deep into Windows folders, you'll find 20 year old drivers, icons from Windows 9x, etc. If that's the sort of care they take with what you can see, the code underneath must be a mess held together by duct tape and chewing gum.

Almost every mac user has also used a pc yet stick to mac. On the other hand, most pc users have only ever used a pc. That tells you everything really.

 

[AlanF]

To me SL1 body was very hard. I hope they implement a softer grip similar to EOS-M5.

True that. The SL1's body might feel a bit "harder", but it is actually made out of good quality plastics (unlike the M5) - at least that was my impression.

What is your evidence that the SL1 is made out of good quality plastics and the M5 isn't? What type of plastic is each made from - I haven't been able to find out on the web?

 

[LonelyBoy]

Re: Canon EOS Rebel SL2 Confirmed in 2017 [CR3]

I have a 2011 i5 MacBook Air, runs just like new if not faster with the new Mac OS. I also have a 12 month old HP 840 with an i5 and twice as much RAM as the MacBook. It runs dog slow in comparison. The MacBook is just responsive and everything is fluid when doing things. The HP feels cluncky and jerky when doing the most basic tasks.
Apple simply makes better, more efficient hardware and software. Microsoft is know for making terrible operating systems and software in general, so it's no wonder the difference is marked. Even the way they arrange the UI elements and their poor choice of typefaces, it makes me cringe. If you dig deep into Windows folders, you'll find 20 year old drivers, icons from Windows 9x, etc. If that's the sort of care they take with what you can see, the code underneath must be a mess held together by duct tape and chewing gum.

Almost every mac user has also used a pc yet stick to mac. On the other hand, most pc users have only ever used a pc. That tells you everything really.

Wow, I really touched a nerve on this with a whole lot of people.

There is nothing magical about the chips Apple buys from Intel versus the chips HP buys from Intel. If your HP is dog-slow and clunky, maybe try to figure out why that is, because mine aren't. And I've used MacBooks, and they drive me up the wall. I even switched back to an iPhone 7 after using Windows Phone for years so I could iMessage with my wife while she's overseas for work and the damn thing still frustrates me every day, by comparison, even after a month. Not everyone likes what you like, believe it or not.

Now, I'm very sorry I picked at this thread when Neuro made his analogy. Can we please get back to discussing the damn SL2?

 

[dafrank]

Couldn't help myself

I have a 2011 i5 MacBook Air, runs just like new if not faster with the new Mac OS. I also have a 12 month old HP 840 with an i5 and twice as much RAM as the MacBook. It runs dog slow in comparison. The MacBook is just responsive and everything is fluid when doing things. The HP feels cluncky and jerky when doing the most basic tasks.
Apple simply makes better, more efficient hardware and software. Microsoft is know for making terrible operating systems and software in general, so it's no wonder the difference is marked. Even the way they arrange the UI elements and their poor choice of typefaces, it makes me cringe. If you dig deep into Windows folders, you'll find 20 year old drivers, icons from Windows 9x, etc. If that's the sort of care they take with what you can see, the code underneath must be a mess held together by duct tape and chewing gum.

Almost every mac user has also used a pc yet stick to mac. On the other hand, most pc users have only ever used a pc. That tells you everything really.

Wow, I really touched a nerve on this with a whole lot of people.

There is nothing magical about the chips Apple buys from Intel versus the chips HP buys from Intel. If your HP is dog-slow and clunky, maybe try to figure out why that is, because mine aren't. And I've used MacBooks, and they drive me up the wall. I even switched back to an iPhone 7 after using Windows Phone for years so I could iMessage with my wife while she's overseas for work and the damn thing still frustrates me every day, by comparison, even after a month. Not everyone likes what you like, believe it or not.

Now, I'm very sorry I picked at this thread when Neuro made his analogy. Can we please get back to discussing the damn SL2?

Sorry, I just couldn't help myself.

I've been a serious user of computers for digital imaging from pretty much before there was any desktop computer for serious digital imaging, since about 1990 or so. Over the years, starting with Macs and various versions of Unix (among which SGI Irix was my most used), I spent literally hundreds of thousands of dollars and tens of thousands of hours doing this computer work. Sometime in the mid 1990's, I started to gradually switch my computer mix over to the workstation version of Windows NT3.5. By about 2000, and to this day, I have used only Windows machines for desktop computing. Why? Because if you go to a real reputable custom Windows builder, or build one yourself, with just a passing acquaintance of component quality and performance, you can spec out a very reliable, reasonably priced and extremely fast computer that should work very well for higher end digital imaging for between 5 and even 12 years, depending on your need for speed to match the sluggishness of whatever new programming pops up. All of my machines have been nearly dead reliable, maintained their speed over time, and been able to be partially upgraded along the way. I've almost never had any issues with any of the Windows operating systems, although Windows 8 was probably the worst, so I merely avoided it and kept 7 going until Windows 10 was viable. I'm typing this on a still very fast for imaging computer I had built in 2009, now using Windows 10, and showing no slowdown whatsoever for Lightroom or Photoshop. Last year, with 4K video in mind, I built a newer system as well, and it is a speed demon monster, built at a high, but reasonable cost, literally thousands of dollars cheaper than what an equivalent Mac would cost. Windows 10 runs smooth as butter on both machines.

The answer to all of the crazy "Windows stinks and is killing me" memes out there is simple: maintain your machine with decent anti-virus and clean-up programs (free and provided Windows Defender, plus CCleaner work great), don't be a fool when surfing the net, don't put any more software than what you need and know to be legitimate on your computer, and, if you're a gamer, keep the games on a computer other than the one you do your photo work on. Follow these prescriptions and proscriptions and I pretty much guarantee that Windows will run fast and efficiently on your machine for many, many years.

Finally, as far as laptops go, the physical design and build of Mac Pro's is currently the best in the industry. Their performance is very good as well, although still not the best for the money. The OS is very stable and solid, works very well, looks very good and is "entertaining" in the way that Mac fans love. I did buy a Mac Pro less than 2 years ago. Like it very much. But, neither the operating system, nor the performance, is superior to a current Windows 10 machine. And, for performance, any small efficiency gained by the Unix-like Mac OS over a Win 10 machine is usually more than made up for in cheaper PC costs. However, in the laptop realm, the Win 10 advantage is definitely smaller.

Last, and I know Mac fans will howl, I think the Windows OP is more straightforward, logical and simpler to use, when the operator is equally acquainted with both. Here the Windows machines are actually whittling away that advantage by making the OS, like Macs, more and more "entertaining," forcing operators through more layers to get work done. However, the ability to use touch controls in Windows 10 is so far unmatched in the Mac world, something that has some actual real-world benefits as well.

Well, enough about that. Let's get on with the SL2. Again, my apologies to the forum for this lengthy distraction.

Regards,
David

 

[Loswr]

Macs rule, PCs drool.

 

[Crosswind]

What is your evidence that the SL1 is made out of good quality plastics and the M5 isn't? What type of plastic is each made from - I haven't been able to find out on the web?

Because I had the SL1 in my hands a while ago and played around a little bit - and the M5 is my new camera since January 2017. The SL1 feels a bit sturdier and more solidly built than the M5 (which is neither bad nor good). But again, as I've already said, that's the only (minor) downside of the EOS M5 (imo).

 

[rrcphoto]

Macs rule, PCs drool.

my laptop doesn't look as prudy as a macbook, but it looks at a macbook and snorts and goes .. that's it?

i sadly had to underspec my screen at 1080 because work servers don't like 4K screen resolutions

but other than that, it runs rings around any macbook except battery life I consider my laptop a portable desktop.

(i7-6700K desktop CPU, 980M, 64GB memory, 2x1TB SSD, 512GB NVMe)

 

[ahsanford]

Macs rule, PCs drool.

Much like I'd like a great mid-level 50 prime :, I'd love to see Apple offer me something between a Mac Mini and a Mac Pro as far as desktops go.

Current choices for Apple desktops are:

Mac Mini (underpowered, RAM is dickishly soldered to the board, black I/O ports are impossible to see)
Powerbook (all that tech permanently sitting in a dock is a huge waste of money)
iMac (integral monitor included each time )
Mac Pro (the definition of overkill / unnecessary)

I just want to cut a check for about $1500-2000 every 6-7 years and replace the box on my desk with something more powerful, likely to be used with my existing monitor, peripherals, backup HD, etc. But with that canvas of options and my 2009 MBP aging away, I grabbed a Mini last year with the full knowledge I'd throw it away in half my normal cycle time since it was relatively underweight. Sad.

- A

 

[Loswr]

Silly me, I used too small an emoticon. I'll try again.

Macs rule, PCs drool.

 

[ahsanford]

Silly me, I used too small an emoticon. I'll try again.

Macs rule, PCs drool.

Re-read my post, dude. You just posted a Mac Pro smiley face. I need a smiley face in between the size of that one and the original Mac Mini smiley face you posted.

- A

 

[LonelyBoy]

Silly me, I used too small an emoticon. I'll try again.

Macs rule, PCs drool.

Now that's creepy.

 

[e17paul]

That's great news - I'm really enjoying my 100D (SL1) both as a lightweight option for when I dont need the performance of full frame, and to give each of my full frame lenses and extra purpose in life.