Canon Still Working on New 800mm Lens [CR1]

TAF

CR Pro
Feb 26, 2012
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johnf3f said:
One thing they could do though is get rid of the IS. Heresy I know but it just gets in the way of the AF system and many current pro cameras don't really need it - I certainly don't. Less complication, a useless element eliminated from the focal path and a couple of switches less - sounds good to me. Most will not agree but I have the lens and frequently hand hold it and I don't want IS. Feel free to open fire!

Interesting concept - since many potential customers for such long lenses might be inclined to use a tripod (or at least a monopod), rendering the IS less useful, perhaps they could develop a separate IS module?

Imagine a line of LONG lenses (starting at 800 and going up into the thousands), without IS, and an IS module you could add when needed. If the IS module was universal (i.e.: useable with both long and short lenses), it would also sell to those folks with say a 28/35/50 that would perhaps benefit from IS at times.

If it wasn't obscenely expensive, I'd buy one for use with my (gasp) Zeiss 50mm f1.4, et al.
 
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TAF said:
johnf3f said:
One thing they could do though is get rid of the IS. Heresy I know but it just gets in the way of the AF system and many current pro cameras don't really need it - I certainly don't. Less complication, a useless element eliminated from the focal path and a couple of switches less - sounds good to me. Most will not agree but I have the lens and frequently hand hold it and I don't want IS. Feel free to open fire!

Interesting concept - since many potential customers for such long lenses might be inclined to use a tripod (or at least a monopod), rendering the IS less useful, perhaps they could develop a separate IS module?

Imagine a line of LONG lenses (starting at 800 and going up into the thousands), without IS, and an IS module you could add when needed. If the IS module was universal (i.e.: useable with both long and short lenses), it would also sell to those folks with say a 28/35/50 that would perhaps benefit from IS at times.

If it wasn't obscenely expensive, I'd buy one for use with my (gasp) Zeiss 50mm f1.4, et al.

Ibis
 
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Mr Bean said:
An 800mm f4 DO version could be an interesting option. That would allow the 1.4x and 2x tele's to work with AF.

The use of "do" elements make it possible to bend the light at a sharper angle and make a lens shorter overall but the diameter is the same. That is still a huge 200mm front element.
 
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Don Haines

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Jun 4, 2012
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candc said:
Mr Bean said:
An 800mm f4 DO version could be an interesting option. That would allow the 1.4x and 2x tele's to work with AF.

The use of "do" elements make it possible to bend the light at a sharper angle and make a lens shorter overall but the diameter is the same. That is still a huge 200mm front element.
I have a 200mm telescope..... it is NOT hand holdable.... I can't imagine dragging a lens around of that size.....
 
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Lee Jay

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Sep 22, 2011
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neuroanatomist said:
Lee Jay said:
They could make a 1000mm/5.6 DO. That's something no one else sells. It could be a ton smaller than the Sigma 200-500/2.8 since it's a little less aperture, a prime, and a DO.

1000mm / 5.6 = 500mm / 2.8, iris diaphragm is the same size, front element is the same size.

But the rest of the lens isn't. Probably not even close since it's so much harder to correct for an f/2.8 lens over an f/5.6 lens and the same for a zoom versus a prime.
 
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Jan 29, 2011
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Nininini said:
The Crop vs FF argument is simple for me. Crop wins because of the extra reach. I can get far more reach for far far less weight, size and money on a Crop.

Care to show any actual images that you have shot with the same lens and same generation crop and ff cameras that actually supports your comment "I can get far more reach.....on a Crop."?
 
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Don Haines

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privatebydesign said:
Nininini said:
The Crop vs FF argument is simple for me. Crop wins because of the extra reach. I can get far more reach for far far less weight, size and money on a Crop.

Care to show any actual images that you have shot with the same lens and different cameras that actually supports your comment "I can get far more reach"?
I would love to see an example of that with the 7D2 and the 5Ds :)
 
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Jul 21, 2010
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Lee Jay said:
neuroanatomist said:
Lee Jay said:
They could make a 1000mm/5.6 DO. That's something no one else sells. It could be a ton smaller than the Sigma 200-500/2.8 since it's a little less aperture, a prime, and a DO.

1000mm / 5.6 = 500mm / 2.8, iris diaphragm is the same size, front element is the same size.

But the rest of the lens isn't. Probably not even close since it's so much harder to correct for an f/2.8 lens over an f/5.6 lens and the same for a zoom versus a prime.

Sure, it makes sense that the lens would be smaller. My point was that stating a 1000/5.6 would have 'a little less aperture' than a 500/2.8 is just flat out wrong.
 
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Jul 21, 2010
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Nininini said:
The Crop vs FF argument is simple for me. Crop wins because of the extra reach. I can get far more reach for far far less weight, size and money on a Crop.

Glad that works for you. You really should get a m4/3 camera, better yet a superzoom P&S – the PowerShot SX60 has a 1365mm lens, much better reach and way smaller/lighter than your dSLR.

Your free lunch comes with a cake you can have and eat, too. It's a win-win!
 
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Don Haines

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neuroanatomist said:
Nininini said:
The Crop vs FF argument is simple for me. Crop wins because of the extra reach. I can get far more reach for far far less weight, size and money on a Crop.

Glad that works for you. You really should get a m4/3 camera, better yet a superzoom P&S – the PowerShot SX60 has a 1365mm lens, much better reach and way smaller/lighter than your dSLR.

Your free lunch comes with a cake you can have and eat, too. It's a win-win!
Try being a bit less nasty and a bit more helpful......

With any lens, with smaller pixels you get a higher density sampling. If everything was perfect it would mean more reach. The problem is, everything is not perfect.

First problem: The lens is not perfect. With twice the sampling density on a perfect lens, you would get twice the reach, but because of imperfections in the lens you get a lesser number. The better the lens, the closer you are to twice the reach, the worse the lens, the closer you are to one.

Second problem: Assuming the same technology, by going to twice the pixel density, you quarter the area of the pixels and that means you get less light on each one. If there is no wasted sensor area (edges of pixels, traces, etc) each pixel gets abut a quarter the light and your sensor performance drops two stops.

Third problem: Read noise.... you would get the same read noise for big or small pixels, but the read noise of the small pixel is compared to a smaller signal and is relatively more significant.

Fourth problem: Movement and vibration. With smaller pixels, any movement blurs the light over more pixels. This can be movement of the camera or movement of the subject. You compensate with higher shutter speeds and that means compromising ISO or aperture settings and pixel quality suffers.

Crop cameras GENERALLY have smaller pixels than FF cameras, but this is not always true.

The best way to sum it up is that by going to smaller pixels you increase the number of pixels on target but the quality and the accuracy of those pixels is reduced. Your resolving power can be increased under some combinations of conditions and it can be decreased under other conditions. There is no definitive answer as the variables are too complex and vary so much on personal choices and conditions.

I have a 5D2, 7D2, and a SX-50. Personally, I find that the 5D2 out-resolves the 7D2 under poor lighting, that the 7D2 is best under good lighting, but under absolutely perfect conditions the SX-50 blows the two of them away, but that's for me and the conditions and subjects that I tend to shoot. The next person will probably get a different answer.


Size is another thing.... Realistically, there is no difference between a 7D2 and a 6D or 5D3 when it comes to size, but go to a Rebel, SL1, or an "M" camera and you are significantly lighter and more affordable.
 
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Nininini said:
The Crop vs FF argument is simple for me. Crop wins because of the extra reach. I can get far more reach for far far less weight, size and money on a Crop.

Yeah, umm we did a whole thing on CR forum a while back about this topic and the conclusion was (for the most part) that this myth was debunked. I guess you must have missed that. Not to worry we have a crop vs FF reach heated debate about once every few months!

You stay on here long enough and you become familiar with the old classic debates such as lack of DR and the need to push shadows 5 stops in post, clear filter or no filter on your lens and the FF vs Crop showdown! Looks like we're set for another cracker! Get the popcorn ready!
 
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Feb 8, 2013
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It used to be a fairly simple equation, but now that we have 500mm+ lenses for around $1,000 and the 6D or 5D3 at deep discount, the idea that a "decent" full frame supertelephoto setup costs over $10,000 isn't quite the case anymore.
The 7D2 still has a lot of advantages but at this point whether you go crop or Full Frame is more dependant on your application than your budget.
 
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neuroanatomist said:
Nininini said:
The Crop vs FF argument is simple for me. Crop wins because of the extra reach. I can get far more reach for far far less weight, size and money on a Crop.

Glad that works for you. You really should get a a superzoom P&S

Why are you telling me what I should and shouldn't get? I'm not interested in P&S, they are nowhere near capable enough for me under low light.
 
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Nininini said:
The Crop vs FF argument is simple for me. Crop wins because of the extra reach. I can get far more reach for far far less weight, size and money on a Crop.

It seems your comment brought out many responses to the opposite.
But take heart, many of those that wouldn't agree with the Crop extra reach argument argued endlessly on the opposite side of the argument a few years back. It took several years but most eventually figured it out.

You did get one point right though, you can get the Crop camera cheaper.
 
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Jul 21, 2010
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takesome1 said:
But take heart, many of those that wouldn't agree with the Crop extra reach argument argued endlessly on the opposite side of the argument a few years back.

OTOH, some of us have been saying the same thing for more than a few years... ;)

neuroanatomist said:
Tuggen said:
In the specific situation where you need longest possible reach higher pixel density is an advantage....There are no disadvantages with higher density.

Ahhhh...well, then...I hope you don't use a dSLR when you need reach, because it sounds like the Canon PowerShot SX30 IS is the perfect camera for that. 14 megapixels packed into in a 5.6x crop factor sensor for a very high pixel density, with a 150mm lens (840mm FF-equivalent), and no disadvantages. Well, gosh...it's just the perfect camera! I bet pro wildlife shooters are all selling off their 1DIVs and 600mm f/4L lenses, and buying SX30s, right? The SX30 even has IS, so the Gitzo and gimbal head can be left at home. Right?!?
 
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