Canon to Make a Big Splash at Photokina? [CR2]

[pwp]

The single most interesting thing is going to be the sensor in the new camera.

Absolutely...

The rest of the 7D2 feature set is fairly predictable, but new sensor tech is truly something that would make me sit up and take notice.

-pw

 

[MichaelHodges]

Looking forward to the new lens reveal. When I see "big" I'm assuming a wildlife lens.

-------------

http://michaelhodgesfiction.com/

 

[JonAustin]

I really cannot imagine shooting in anything other than full RAW. Maybe I'm different than some because I do print large on occasion but I'd rather carry cards than switch modes during a shoot. I now wait to be schooled by those who tell me I'm missing the point. I can take it.

You are missing the point. The point here is some distant wildlife or whanot and where you don't care about the frame borders and would always cut them off before printing or whatnot anyway.

For other stuff I always shoot full RAW and don't bother with sRAW/mRAW which are not 100% true RAW anyway.

The point for me is that I've never printed larger than 13x19", and the 5DIII's mRAW resolution of 3960x2640 is enough to output at more than 17x26", assuming 150 ppi. If I ever needed / wanted to output larger than that, I could change to full RAW almost instantaneously at the flip of a switch.

I don't know about sRAW and mRAW not being "100% true RAW," I just know that they open in LR & PS like any other RAW files I've used. I realize that there is downsampling going on inside the camera before the image is written to sRAW or mRAW format, and I've tried without success to research the downsampling algorithm, or identify any attendant detrimental aspects.

 

[JonAustin]

I must note that I almost never crop, and if I do that on occasion it will be only minor edge crops to remove a disturbing feature on the edge. If the composition isn't right without cropping, the whole photo gets binned.

Then you're either much better at composition that I am, or you must toss a lot of images! Even with the 5DIII's superimposed grid lines (which I always have turned on), I'm constantly rotating images slightly in post to correct horizons, etc. And I almost always crop at least a bit for optimum composition.

Perhaps it's the non-destructive tools in LR that have "encouraged" me to work in this fashion. But my style of shooting is to concentrate on focus, depth of field and exposure, and then to "capture the moment," knowing that I can easily adjust for the other stuff in post.

[Below: one of my luckier shots, moment capturing-wise, after rotating & cropping!]

 

[dsut4392]

28-300mm non L for the 6D ? Really ?

Much prefer a 20-135mm or 24-200mm, keep it under £500 and I might even buy one ;-)

L or non-L, just make it _smaller_, that's of equal importance to making it cheaper.

Both of your suggestions sound nice in themselves, but are missing the point of a lens like this: a one (or two) lens travel kit with reach.

The current kit options I see as realistic to cover the bases for travel all need three lenses:
(wide prime or 16-35 or 17-40) + 24-70 + 70-300
(wide prime or 16-35 or 17-40) + 24-105 + 100-400

With a 28-300 that isn't an absurdly heavy and obscenely expensive beast, a two lens kit becomes realistic:
(wide prime or 16-35 or 17-40) + 28-300

20-135 would be a different sort of lens altogether and is too close to 24-105 to make a marketing case for it in addition to the current lineup. As a replacement for 24-105L it would be a great general purpose walk-about lens, but it doesn't solve the problem (for me) of making my travel kit smaller.

24-200 is certainly something I would consider, if they get the size, IQ and price right. I used to be happy with a maximum of 200mm back in the film days. But in the current day and age, with only 200 at the long end they would likely lose much of the target market because to get the reach we have come to expect, we would need to add another long lens (e.g. 300/4= weight, $$).
Similarly with only 24 at the wide end, many people (like me) would still want wider and would be buying this as something to pair with the 16-35/4. So giving up some at the wide end in exchange for more reach makes sense IMO. Having that much overlap with a 16-35 would needlessly add size, complication and cost while likely reducing IQ.

 

[HaroldC3]

The single most interesting thing is going to be the sensor in the new camera. I want to know if Canon is going to compete with Sony or keep putting lipstick on their current sensor technology.

Yep and we'll see if it's not evolutionary like the 70D sensor.

 

[Cheryll]

</strong>First up, the successor to the EOS 7D will be announced. We’re told that there’s “a lot of the 1D X” in the new camera. As well as some revolutionary sensor technology.</p>
<p><strong>What about lenses?

The EOS 7D is not interesting for me. I wondering you told not the 5Dmk4 announced at 4 Sept. How longer we must wait for this camera?

To the question- yes Canon can make a big splash. Can! but we have not one detail from this new super sensor. We need first specs from the performance from this sensor and second pictures preferably in difficult situations as low light (noise and low light performance) and frontlighting (DR performance).

 

[Harry Muff]

Whenever a country that isn't Japan makes a bold statement like this, it turns out to be something crap like a special white edition camera or something.

Just the cheap artwork alone makes me think this is a big nothing. Wait for Canon Japan to fire up their marketing department before getting too excited.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

The point for me is that I've never printed larger than 13x19", and the 5DIII's mRAW resolution of 3960x2640 is enough to output at more than 17x26", assuming 150 ppi. If I ever needed / wanted to output larger than that, I could change to full RAW almost instantaneously at the flip of a switch.

I don't like to print less than 300PPI.
And prefer even 540PPI if I can get it.

I don't know about sRAW and mRAW not being "100% true RAW," I just know that they open in LR & PS like any other RAW files I've used. I realize that there is downsampling going on inside the camera before the image is written to sRAW or mRAW format, and I've tried without success to research the downsampling algorithm, or identify any attendant detrimental aspects.

They already been de-Bayered into a weird format with some info even beyond just resolution lost and you are stuck with their quick and dirty de-bayer and scale.

 

[nicku]

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<p>We’re told there are tons of new DSLR products coming for Photokina this September. The announcement for the new stuff should happen on September 4th or 5th, depending on where you are in the world. Our source has mentioned a DSLR body as well as a host of lenses for various budgets.</p>
<p><strong>What will be announced?


</strong>First up, the successor to the EOS 7D will be announced. We’re told that there’s “a lot of the 1D X” in the new camera. As well as some revolutionary sensor technology.</p>
<p><strong>What about lenses?


</strong>We’re getting more confirmations that the EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS will be replaced by a new version with a rotating zoom instead of the push/pull design that the lens currently uses. It looks like <a href="https://www.facebook.com/canonindia/photos/a.131759853520966.14154.128718407158444/797938930236385/?type=1&theater" target="_blank">Canon India is teasing a new “big” lens</a> on their Facebook page.</p>
<p>The following lenses I’d rate as [CR1], as they’re the first time I’ve heard about them for Photokina this year.</p>
<p>We’re told that at least one EF-S lens is possible, most likely a replacement to the EF-S 18-200. The lens could be replaced with an 18-300 IS STM.</p>
<p>Another lens we’re told to expect is targeted at the EOS 6D user. It will be a “cheaper version of the 28-300L” lens. Canon is lacking a big range non L zoom for full frame cameras.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>

more like APS-H 1D....

 

[mrsfotografie]

If the composition isn't right without cropping, the whole photo gets binned.

Wow really? A lot of scenes don't look best at 3:2 or 2:3 though and what if it does look best at those ratios but you just didn't or were not able to frame tight enough, even the most amazing shot is junked?

It's one of the limitations I've set myself, and it's a risk I'm willing to live with. On the subject of limitations, I think it's good to have some - it improves my photography (one reason why I'm increasingly preferring prime lenses).

I must note that I almost never crop, and if I do that on occasion it will be only minor edge crops to remove a disturbing feature on the edge. If the composition isn't right without cropping, the whole photo gets binned.

You must shoot a lot of very slow or stationary subjects. It's simply impossible to reliably and accurately frame many of the subjects I shoot, which are often moving as fast as 60 degrees per second relative to me. Shooting those with a 3 degree total field of view, it's hard enough just to keep them in the frame much less to make sure they are perfectly framed.

Essentially, I crop every image I shoot, at least a little.

I do a lot of motorsports. Almost none of these are cropped:

http://www.mrsfotografie.nl/auto-motorsport/

 

[Efka76]

I really do not expect from Canon something super new or super mega new technology Take a look back to history: I remember all big expectations related to 6D. There were many wishlists but in reality Canon produced significantly crippled FF camera, which AF does not even match old 7D

Now I really expect that after 5 years Canon will launch 7DII, which will have 70D sensor, slightly more megapixels (expect 24 MP), slightly higher FPS, GPS and WiFi. That's it Do not expect significant revolutions in sensor. If there were such revolutions, there would be a leak of information already. For example, Sony announced curved sensor technology, which will be implemented in their future models.

Canon made revolution few years ago. Currently it is a stagnant company, which still focuses significant aattention to dying P&S market. Product cycle for semi-pro and pro products is very long and shows that Canon does not sufficiently invest in R&D as other companies. Canon started loosing in the following areas:

1) Mirrorless market - they loose to Fuji, Olympus, Sony;
2) Sensor technology - loosing to Sony;
3) Lenses - starting to loose to Sigma and Tamron as these 2 companies started producing high quality lenses, which match or in some cases exceed qulity of Canon lenses (e.g. Sigma 50 mm 1.4 Art, Tamron 24-70 2.8 VC) for affordable price.

From financial perspective Canon is doing quite OK, even better than other companies, as they still have big loyal customer base, however, in technology companies if you loose momentum you can loos all business very soon.

 

[justaCanonuser]

Nothing other than a bona fide Canon press release will make me believe in an updated 100-400L. 8)

The new Tammy 150-600 might put more pressure on Canon to come up with a new 100-400, which is good news for Canon users. Besides better AF performance of the native Canon system in action shooting and a wider 100 mm starting focal length which some may prefer, it is hard to find any other good argument to prefer Canon's telezoom over Tamron's. The Sigma x- 500 mm "Bigma" zooms weren't so far a real alternative for those who are serious about quality (not so stellar IQ on the tele end, aperture drops to f=6.3 minimum already at about 200 mm) but the Tamron obviously changes the game in this market segment. People complain how hard it is to get a copy, Tamron seems to be a bit surprised by the huge demand for this lens.

 

[jonjt]

I really do not expect from Canon something super new or super mega new technology Take a look back to history: I remember all big expectations related to 6D. There were many wishlists but in reality Canon produced significantly crippled FF camera, which AF does not even match old 7D

Now I really expect that after 5 years Canon will launch 7DII, which will have 70D sensor, slightly more megapixels (expect 24 MP), slightly higher FPS, GPS and WiFi. That's it Do not expect significant revolutions in sensor. If there were such revolutions, there would be a leak of information already. For example, Sony announced curved sensor technology, which will be implemented in their future models.

Canon made revolution few years ago. Currently it is a stagnant company, which still focuses significant aattention to dying P&S market. Product cycle for semi-pro and pro products is very long and shows that Canon does not sufficiently invest in R&D as other companies. Canon started loosing in the following areas:

1) Mirrorless market - they loose to Fuji, Olympus, Sony;
2) Sensor technology - loosing to Sony;
3) Lenses - starting to loose to Sigma and Tamron as these 2 companies started producing high quality lenses, which match or in some cases exceed qulity of Canon lenses (e.g. Sigma 50 mm 1.4 Art, Tamron 24-70 2.8 VC) for affordable price.

From financial perspective Canon is doing quite OK, even better than other companies, as they still have big loyal customer base, however, in technology companies if you loose momentum you can loos all business very soon.

I definitely think it's reasonable to expect a major improvement in sensor performance, for all the reasons you specified. Their architecture is old and they are getting beat by a bunch of other manufacturers. Members here have detailed Canon's deficits while also detailing the changes Canon could make to improve their sensors.

Canon has to at least match their competitors if they are going to stay relevant over the next 5 years. I'm interested to see what this 7DII brings, if only to see what the 5DIV be able to provide.

 

[AcutancePhotography]

Canon started loosing in the following areas:

1) Mirrorless market - they loose to Fuji, Olympus, Sony;
2) Sensor technology - loosing to Sony;
3) Lenses - starting to loose to Sigma and Tamron as these 2 companies started producing high quality lenses, which match or in some cases exceed qulity of Canon lenses (e.g. Sigma 50 mm 1.4 Art, Tamron 24-70 2.8 VC) for affordable price.

if you loose momentum you can loos all business very soon.

The word is "lose".

 

[pknight]

The new Tammy 150-600 might put more pressure on Canon to come up with a new 100-400, which is good news for Canon users. Besides better AF performance of the native Canon system in action shooting and a wider 100 mm starting focal length which some may prefer, it is hard to find any other good argument to prefer Canon's telezoom over Tamron's. The Sigma x- 500 mm "Bigma" zooms weren't so far a real alternative for those who are serious about quality (not so stellar IQ on the tele end, aperture drops to f=6.3 minimum already at about 200 mm) but the Tamron obviously changes the game in this market segment. People complain how hard it is to get a copy, Tamron seems to be a bit surprised by the huge demand for this lens.

I have had the 100-400 for about a decade, and I recently bought (after a 14-week wait) the Tamron 150-600. My experience is consistent with most reviews, that it is as good as the 100-400 between 150 and 400mm, and much better from 401-600mm. Actually, the 600mm shots I am getting are as good (sharpness, detail) as what I get at 400mm with the Canon, with more pixels on-target. AF performance is perhaps not quite up to the Canon, but any difference is not enough to make up for having 600mm.

A new 100-400L was what I was waiting for, but no longer. I suspect that if it is ever actually produced it will cost at least more than twice the $1069 price tag of the Tamron, and it will still stop at 400mm.

It is great that Canon and Nikon are finally getting some pressure on the lens front. This lens gets you to 600mm for about $12,000 less than Canon, but it really isn't competing with that lens. It is certainly going to cut into the potential sales of any 100-400 replacement, however.

 

[Don Haines]

Canon started loosing in the following areas:

1) Mirrorless market - they loose to Fuji, Olympus, Sony;
2) Sensor technology - loosing to Sony;
3) Lenses - starting to loose to Sigma and Tamron as these 2 companies started producing high quality lenses, which match or in some cases exceed qulity of Canon lenses (e.g. Sigma 50 mm 1.4 Art, Tamron 24-70 2.8 VC) for affordable price.

if you loose momentum you can loos all business very soon.

The word is "lose".

but loos is ok

 

[Lee Jay]

They already been de-Bayered into a weird format with some info even beyond just resolution lost and you are stuck with their quick and dirty de-bayer and scale.

Which is why I'd really like to see lossy and reduced DNG as a raw option in Canon cameras. While they are still de-Bayer'd, they are much, much better than Canon's mraw and sraw, for multiple reasons.

 

[Lee Jay]

A new 100-400L was what I was waiting for, but no longer. I suspect that if it is ever actually produced it will cost at least more than twice the $1069 price tag of the Tamron, and it will still stop at 400mm.

I think it will stop at 560mm, with a 1.4x TC attached, and likely be better at 560mm f/8 than the Tamron is at 600mm f/8. From what I've seen of tests, the Tamron really needs to be stopped down to f/8 at 600mm or there isn't much advantage over what you get at 400mm from the same lens.

So, it'll be 100-400/4.5-5.6 and 140-560/5.6-8 versus 150-600/5-8. And I'll bet the Canon will focus faster, be smaller and lighter, and have better handling and IS. And at twice the cost, of course.

But, we'll see if it happens or not soon enough.

 

[pknight]

A new 100-400L was what I was waiting for, but no longer. I suspect that if it is ever actually produced it will cost at least more than twice the $1069 price tag of the Tamron, and it will still stop at 400mm.

I think it will stop at 560mm, with a 1.4x TC attached, and likely be better at 560mm f/8 than the Tamron is at 600mm f/8. From what I've seen of tests, the Tamron really needs to be stopped down to f/8 at 600mm or there isn't much advantage over what you get at 400mm from the same lens.

So, it'll be 100-400/4.5-5.6 and 140-560/5.6-8 versus 150-600/5-8. And I'll bet the Canon will focus faster, be smaller and lighter, and have better handling and IS. And at twice the cost, of course.

But, we'll see if it happens or not soon enough.

I use my Tamron at f/8 (stopped down 2/3 stop), and the results are very good. At least as good as what I get with the 100-400, but subjectively better in many cases because of the additional pixels on-target. I am not sure that a 100-400 with a 1.4 TC will beat it. There would have to be some major improvements over the current 100-400 + TC performance for this to be a viable option. As far as IS, Tamron's VC (vibration control) is excellent. I do agree that Canon focusing will likely be faster and it that the Canon will be lighter. But if I have to spend at least twice as much for the lens, plus more for a decent TC, it just doesn't add up, for me. I suspect that the same will be true for many birders on a budget. There will be, however, great deals on used samples of the current 100-400 regardless.