CR in Rwanda With The Canon EOS-1D X Mark II

[privatebydesign]

Re: CR in Rwanda With The EOS-1D X Mark II

I feel like while these are astoundingly great images, they could have been better. Tony Northrup says the 1DX 2 is not the best wildlife camera and the 5DSR with its 50 MP and the 7D2 with its crop sensor can deliver just as good or better shots.

Still, though, wonderful pictures! Beautiful animals.

Thank you for this comment. I saw the video of Tony with those comments. He did review pros and cons and I was somewhat surprised that he said 5DSR would give much better images. Tony went on to opine that a crop or a 5DSR would be superior for wildlife photography, especially when comparing the 1DXII with a TE. He also wento on to compare images which (imho) showed little differences in iq in a controlled situation.

I would be interested in opinions of CR people?

Thanks.

sek

I think Tony's comments are being taken out of context. He says many times "for his type of shooting" and he says that his type of shooting is often BIF and "you can never get close enough".

In saying the 5DSR is a 'better' wildlife camera than the 1DX MkII he is specifically referring to the ability to crop the 5DSR much harder. Now what about people that don't need to crop? I hardly ever crop, I'd take the build quality frame rate and AF speed and accuracy over the subjective pixel advantage any day.

 

[Eldar]

Re: CR in Rwanda With The EOS-1D X Mark II

Eldar to me this lacks sharpness, crispness, that I a saw with Craig's 1DXII.

Scott, these are 30 second edits, just to show how easily you can control noise at high ISO with the 5DSR. If these were images I was going to use for anything, I would have done a more thorough job with them and they would have looked much better. Too many believe that you can´t use the 5DSR above ISO800. My post was just to show that indeed you can.

Craig´s images are great, but I do not know at what ISO they were shot and I have not seen the RAW files, to assess how much processing they have been through. But they confirm my own experience with the 1DXII, namely that it is an incredibly capable camera.

 

[Tonywintn]

I know this is a website devoted to gear; but remember that the gear is 5% of the effort of creative genius. Masters of any craft can create masterpieces with whatever tools they are given. I once saw a master flautist being interviewed on PBS. The reporter handed him a cheap plastic recorder and asked him to play something on it. The tune he played on that recorder was amazing. It hit home to me that our gear is a tool that allows us to create. The gear doesn't make the picture. The artist makes the picture. Sure the newest and latest greatest can make it easier and more fun to capture that moment. And sure the author could have gotten maybe the same pictures with older gear. But the key is, could any of us have captured these noble creatures the way he did that day?
I used to shoot sports in the 70s for my college and local newspaper. That is back before autofocus, auto exposure, even my flash was manual, until I had the money to get an auto strobe. But most of the time I had to shoot football and basketball with available light. That meant push processing Tri-x and shooting at slow shutter speeds wide open. So focusing took a good, fast eye. The trick was capturing the players as they hit the apex in a shot to avoid blurry images. A roll of film might yield 2-3 great images and a few more good images. I worked hard at it because I needed to eat. So I learned to push process the film to minimize grain. My point is that as an engineer, the mechanics of photography came easy. Mastering the art of photography is still a challenge for me that I continue to pursuit in my spare time. I have a lot of respect for the photographers who post on these pages and enjoy seeing their many, creative photographs.

 

[YuengLinger]

Re: CR in Rwanda With The EOS-1D X Mark II

Eldar to me this lacks sharpness, crispness, that I a saw with Craig's 1DXII.

Scott, these are 30 second edits, just to show how easily you can control noise at high ISO with the 5DSR. If these were images I was going to use for anything, I would have done a more thorough job with them and they would have looked much better. Too many believe that you can´t use the 5DSR above ISO800. My post was just to show that indeed you can.

Craig´s images are great, but I do not know at what ISO they were shot and I have not seen the RAW files, to assess how much processing they have been through. But they confirm my own experience with the 1DXII, namely that it is an incredibly capable camera.

And it takes how long to adjust the sharpness and noise sliders in LR? If sufficiently sharp, that's all most images need unless you are doing some localized creative sharpening to make certain points stand out.

I think if you have to defend an image by saying you were careless or rushed processing it, you might rethink sharing the image.

 

[neuroanatomist]

...though we did have some luck and could have easily been shooting with a 24-70.

Indeed...my wife and I were there about 10 years ago, lucked out by drawing the best-habituated Susa Group (of Dian Fossey fame) for our first trip up the volcano. Or maybe it wasn't luck, the night before our local guide brought his friend around for a beer with us – his friend was the head of the Rwandan National Park Service. Regardless, we did get quite close...

One of the adult females even rested her hand on my wife's shoulder as she walked past us.

Here's one more from that day...

Beautiful shots, and no 5DSR or 1DX

Thanks, Scott! I wish I'd had some of my current gear with me on the trip, but that was in my P&S days that intervened between shooting film SLRs up through college, and getting my first dSLR after having a child. For that trip, I had a Olympus C765UZ with a 4 MP 6x crop sensor and a 38-380mm FFeq lens (f/2.8-4 aperture). But even so, you can get decent subject isolation at the long end (63mm f/4), as in this shot from Tarangire NP in Tanzania...

 

[Eldar]

Re: CR in Rwanda With The EOS-1D X Mark II

Eldar to me this lacks sharpness, crispness, that I a saw with Craig's 1DXII.

Scott, these are 30 second edits, just to show how easily you can control noise at high ISO with the 5DSR. If these were images I was going to use for anything, I would have done a more thorough job with them and they would have looked much better. Too many believe that you can´t use the 5DSR above ISO800. My post was just to show that indeed you can.

Craig´s images are great, but I do not know at what ISO they were shot and I have not seen the RAW files, to assess how much processing they have been through. But they confirm my own experience with the 1DXII, namely that it is an incredibly capable camera.

And it takes how long to adjust the sharpness and noise sliders in LR? If sufficiently sharp, that's all most images need unless you are doing some localized creative sharpening to make certain points stand out.

I think if you have to defend an image by saying you were careless or rushed processing it, you might rethink sharing the image.

If you bother to look at the origin of this, you would see that the reason for posting these two snap shots of the cat was a response to the following statement; "The 5DSR is not a wildlife camera, full stop. Try photographing a leopard on the move at night at 8000 iso with it". A statement probably made by someone who never used a 5DSR for anything, confirming a misconception of what this camera can do at higher ISO.

The only ambition with these two snap shots was to show that you can easily control the noise up to ISO12800. To clarify that I had not done any editing other than a minor highlight reduction and a Luminance NR, I listed that. I did not touch clarity, sharpness, saturation or anything else, which I probably would have, if the intention was to post an image of more value than to illustrate that this camera can well be used for a leopard on the move at ISO8000 (even though the 1DXII is better).

Unlike you, I have posted loads of images, meant to be viewed as such, which you are perfectly welcome to criticise.

 

[AshtonNekolah]

I know this is a website devoted to gear; but remember that the gear is 5% of the effort of creative genius. Masters of any craft can create masterpieces with whatever tools they are given. I once saw a master flautist being interviewed on PBS. The reporter handed him a cheap plastic recorder and asked him to play something on it. The tune he played on that recorder was amazing. It hit home to me that our gear is a tool that allows us to create. The gear doesn't make the picture. The artist makes the picture. Sure the newest and latest greatest can make it easier and more fun to capture that moment. And sure the author could have gotten maybe the same pictures with older gear. But the key is, could any of us have captured these noble creatures the way he did that day?
I used to shoot sports in the 70s for my college and local newspaper. That is back before autofocus, auto exposure, even my flash was manual, until I had the money to get an auto strobe. But most of the time I had to shoot football and basketball with available light. That meant push processing Tri-x and shooting at slow shutter speeds wide open. So focusing took a good, fast eye. The trick was capturing the players as they hit the apex in a shot to avoid blurry images. A roll of film might yield 2-3 great images and a few more good images. I worked hard at it because I needed to eat. So I learned to push process the film to minimize grain. My point is that as an engineer, the mechanics of photography came easy. Mastering the art of photography is still a challenge for me that I continue to pursuit in my spare time. I have a lot of respect for the photographers who post on these pages and enjoy seeing their many, creative photographs.

What your saying here is spot on but today our world is nothing but disposable so forget about all of that gear talk. People will always buy by whatever means necessary and never be satisfied with what they got after all it's the reason for this trend of today. Heck sometimes when I look back at the master pieces I still see people trying to mimic the same image never getting the same results, people never ask why they just want more. And the glass back then if you never tell me about all this science behind lens coatings, type of glass, body, and mp, etc, I couldn't care less about all of that, just looking at the images blows me away, and it's the image in the frames that makes people think that they will actually get the same results, give people 200,000mp , 0.00095 lenses, 2mm wide and the widest dmr they will still want more.

 

[kyle86]

Re: CR in Rwanda With The EOS-1D X Mark II

Beautiful photos! Any recommendation on tour companies to use?

I can highly recommend Joe and Mary Ann McDonald of McDonald Wildlife. They will be leading thier 100th Gorilla trek this fall. http://hoothollow.com/index.html

Dennis

gallery.through-my-lens.com

Thanks Dennis

 

[Jack Douglas]

Re: CR in Rwanda With The EOS-1D X Mark II

Eldar to me this lacks sharpness, crispness, that I a saw with Craig's 1DXII.

Scott, these are 30 second edits, just to show how easily you can control noise at high ISO with the 5DSR. If these were images I was going to use for anything, I would have done a more thorough job with them and they would have looked much better. Too many believe that you can´t use the 5DSR above ISO800. My post was just to show that indeed you can.

Craig´s images are great, but I do not know at what ISO they were shot and I have not seen the RAW files, to assess how much processing they have been through. But they confirm my own experience with the 1DXII, namely that it is an incredibly capable camera.

And it takes how long to adjust the sharpness and noise sliders in LR? If sufficiently sharp, that's all most images need unless you are doing some localized creative sharpening to make certain points stand out.

I think if you have to defend an image by saying you were careless or rushed processing it, you might rethink sharing the image.

I've been sharing images that are not great but they represent where I'm at at the moment and I am striving to do better. Surely we don't have to post only masterpieces on CR.

I've enjoyed most everything Eldar has posted in the context of why he's posted and he has been generous with his encouragement and comments to me and others. Those with the highest levels of expertise will be personally rewarded when they share that expertise positively with others for the good of the hobby or profession. That's what it's all about, contributing positively for the good of the community, IMHO.

Jack

 

[YuengLinger]

Re: CR in Rwanda With The EOS-1D X Mark II

Eldar to me this lacks sharpness, crispness, that I a saw with Craig's 1DXII.

Scott, these are 30 second edits, just to show how easily you can control noise at high ISO with the 5DSR. If these were images I was going to use for anything, I would have done a more thorough job with them and they would have looked much better. Too many believe that you can´t use the 5DSR above ISO800. My post was just to show that indeed you can.

Craig´s images are great, but I do not know at what ISO they were shot and I have not seen the RAW files, to assess how much processing they have been through. But they confirm my own experience with the 1DXII, namely that it is an incredibly capable camera.

And it takes how long to adjust the sharpness and noise sliders in LR? If sufficiently sharp, that's all most images need unless you are doing some localized creative sharpening to make certain points stand out.

I think if you have to defend an image by saying you were careless or rushed processing it, you might rethink sharing the image.

If you bother to look at the origin of this, you would see that the reason for posting these two snap shots of the cat was a response to the following statement; "The 5DSR is not a wildlife camera, full stop. Try photographing a leopard on the move at night at 8000 iso with it". A statement probably made by someone who never used a 5DSR for anything, confirming a misconception of what this camera can do at higher ISO.

The only ambition with these two snap shots was to show that you can easily control the noise up to ISO12800. To clarify that I had not done any editing other than a minor highlight reduction and a Luminance NR, I listed that. I did not touch clarity, sharpness, saturation or anything else, which I probably would have, if the intention was to post an image of more value than to illustrate that this camera can well be used for a leopard on the move at ISO8000 (even though the 1DXII is better).

Unlike you, I have posted loads of images, meant to be viewed as such, which you are perfectly welcome to criticise.

You are absolutely correct, sir, I need to get over my shyness here.

As for the cat portrait genre, I will disclose that I could never, ever fairly judge a shot, as it is the one subject that makes me gag, no matter how well executed.

 

[zim]

Re: CR in Rwanda With The EOS-1D X Mark II

I've enjoyed most everything Eldar has posted in the context of why he's posted and he has been generous with his encouragement and comments to me and others. Those with the highest levels of expertise will be personally rewarded when they share that expertise positively with others for the good of the hobby or profession. That's what it's all about, contributing positively for the good of the community, IMHO.

Jack

+100 well said
I have two images that Elder posted damn near etched into my memory I think they are that good. where do you get that on a spec sheet!

 

[Eldar]

Re: CR in Rwanda With The EOS-1D X Mark II

I've enjoyed most everything Eldar has posted in the context of why he's posted and he has been generous with his encouragement and comments to me and others. Those with the highest levels of expertise will be personally rewarded when they share that expertise positively with others for the good of the hobby or profession. That's what it's all about, contributing positively for the good of the community, IMHO.

Jack

+100 well said
I have two images that Elder posted damn near etched into my memory I think they are that good. where do you get that on a spec sheet!

Thanks a lot guys. Highly appreciated

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: CR in Rwanda With The EOS-1D X Mark II

I think they are that good. where do you get that on a spec sheet!

Just look over the spec list for the word "Exmor" and if it's not there, you know the camera cannot produce stunning images no matter who holds it. :-X

 

[topdog]

Re: CR in Rwanda With The EOS-1D X Mark II

Eldar to me this lacks sharpness, crispness, that I a saw with Craig's 1DXII.

Scott, these are 30 second edits, just to show how easily you can control noise at high ISO with the 5DSR. If these were images I was going to use for anything, I would have done a more thorough job with them and they would have looked much better. Too many believe that you can´t use the 5DSR above ISO800. My post was just to show that indeed you can.

Craig´s images are great, but I do not know at what ISO they were shot and I have not seen the RAW files, to assess how much processing they have been through. But they confirm my own experience with the 1DXII, namely that it is an incredibly capable camera.

And it takes how long to adjust the sharpness and noise sliders in LR? If sufficiently sharp, that's all most images need unless you are doing some localized creative sharpening to make certain points stand out.

I think if you have to defend an image by saying you were careless or rushed processing it, you might rethink sharing the image.

If you bother to look at the origin of this, you would see that the reason for posting these two snap shots of the cat was a response to the following statement; "The 5DSR is not a wildlife camera, full stop. Try photographing a leopard on the move at night at 8000 iso with it". A statement probably made by someone who never used a 5DSR for anything, confirming a misconception of what this camera can do at higher ISO.

The only ambition with these two snap shots was to show that you can easily control the noise up to ISO12800. To clarify that I had not done any editing other than a minor highlight reduction and a Luminance NR, I listed that. I did not touch clarity, sharpness, saturation or anything else, which I probably would have, if the intention was to post an image of more value than to illustrate that this camera can well be used for a leopard on the move at ISO8000 (even though the 1DXII is better).

Unlike you, I have posted loads of images, meant to be viewed as such, which you are perfectly welcome to criticise.

You are absolutely correct, sir, I need to get over my shyness here.

As for the cat portrait genre, I will disclose that I could never, ever fairly judge a shot, as it is the one subject that makes me gag, no matter how well executed.

you're not alone. many people feel the same way about baby portrait genre, no matter how well executed.

 

[R1-7D]

Re: CR in Rwanda With The EOS-1D X Mark II

I feel like while these are astoundingly great images, they could have been better. Tony Northrup says the 1DX 2 is not the best wildlife camera and the 5DSR with its 50 MP and the 7D2 with its crop sensor can deliver just as good or better shots.

Still, though, wonderful pictures! Beautiful animals.

This is frankly nonsensical. As is a lot of what Tony Northrup produces. I've owned both. The 1DXii is so far ahead of the 7dii, it hardly warrants discussion. As it should be at the price. The 5DSR is not a wildlife camera, full stop. Try photographing a leopard on the move at night at 8000 iso with it.

+1!

Never overestimate the people who care what Tony Northrup says!

Just for the record, and to clear everything up: I'm no fan of Tony Northrup.

I was being sarcastic about his relevance in the photography world and his skill using professional equipment because a thread of mine on here where I pointed out his flawed testing techniques was deleted with no explanation. Another thread that involved criticism of Northrup was also locked. Maybe someone around here is a fan? I don't know...

As far as Craig's images go from Rwanda, they're simply outstanding. He's on an amazing trip, with an awesome camera, and he's taken some truly breathtaking images. Well done to him! I hope he posts more.

 

[scottkinfw]

Re: CR in Rwanda With The EOS-1D X Mark II

Did the gorillas in Rwanda last october, with 5DSR, 7D2 and 5D2, here's a little selection:

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=18142910&size=lg

5DSR in these circumstances was just brilliant & produced images that are just out of this world. For me, there's no better body for the job. Paired it with 70-200 2.8 IS II most of the time. For gorillas, the crop 7D2 was great but too tight, better for distant elusive chimps & birds. The 5D2, while still producing good quality shots, just made me want to kill the guy who designed its AF. RIP, it died over there in the rain...

Sorry to say and I don't mean disrespect... But those images can't even compare to Craig's. They look flat, over processed and there are a lot of flat highlights and lack of sharpness... Out of this world? Maybe out of this country... Nothing like the quality of the 1DX II... Again. Just my opinion as a viewer.

+1 If you don't see the difference between Craigs images and those flat looking images than go and find another hobby

And the two of you could take a basic course in etiquette and normal courtesy, before you make another comment ...

1+ Eldar. This is a place for exchange of ideas, information, encouragement, and respectful criticism. IMHO, people post things that are close to the heart and it is important to respect feelings. This applies to pics, and even cameras that people have worked hard to earn, and are therefore sensitive about. Given that, no reason to make snarky remarks that offend.

My 2 cents only.

sek

 

[scottkinfw]

Re: CR in Rwanda With The EOS-1D X Mark II

Eldar to me this lacks sharpness, crispness, that I a saw with Craig's 1DXII.

Scott, these are 30 second edits, just to show how easily you can control noise at high ISO with the 5DSR. If these were images I was going to use for anything, I would have done a more thorough job with them and they would have looked much better. Too many believe that you can´t use the 5DSR above ISO800. My post was just to show that indeed you can.

Craig´s images are great, but I do not know at what ISO they were shot and I have not seen the RAW files, to assess how much processing they have been through. But they confirm my own experience with the 1DXII, namely that it is an incredibly capable camera.

Thanks for the update Eldar. I hope you didn't take my comment as an offense. I take your point.

sek

 

[scottkinfw]

Re: CR in Rwanda With The EOS-1D X Mark II

Eldar to me this lacks sharpness, crispness, that I a saw with Craig's 1DXII.

Scott, these are 30 second edits, just to show how easily you can control noise at high ISO with the 5DSR. If these were images I was going to use for anything, I would have done a more thorough job with them and they would have looked much better. Too many believe that you can´t use the 5DSR above ISO800. My post was just to show that indeed you can.

Craig´s images are great, but I do not know at what ISO they were shot and I have not seen the RAW files, to assess how much processing they have been through. But they confirm my own experience with the 1DXII, namely that it is an incredibly capable camera.

And it takes how long to adjust the sharpness and noise sliders in LR? If sufficiently sharp, that's all most images need unless you are doing some localized creative sharpening to make certain points stand out.

I think if you have to defend an image by saying you were careless or rushed processing it, you might rethink sharing the image.

If you bother to look at the origin of this, you would see that the reason for posting these two snap shots of the cat was a response to the following statement; "The 5DSR is not a wildlife camera, full stop. Try photographing a leopard on the move at night at 8000 iso with it". A statement probably made by someone who never used a 5DSR for anything, confirming a misconception of what this camera can do at higher ISO.

The only ambition with these two snap shots was to show that you can easily control the noise up to ISO12800. To clarify that I had not done any editing other than a minor highlight reduction and a Luminance NR, I listed that. I did not touch clarity, sharpness, saturation or anything else, which I probably would have, if the intention was to post an image of more value than to illustrate that this camera can well be used for a leopard on the move at ISO8000 (even though the 1DXII is better).

Unlike you, I have posted loads of images, meant to be viewed as such, which you are perfectly welcome to criticise.

I get it Eldar. And yes, I have not posted many pics, for whatever that is worth. I enjoy your posts, and was making an observation not to offend. Apology.

sek

 

[Eldar]

Re: CR in Rwanda With The EOS-1D X Mark II

Eldar to me this lacks sharpness, crispness, that I a saw with Craig's 1DXII.

Scott, these are 30 second edits, just to show how easily you can control noise at high ISO with the 5DSR. If these were images I was going to use for anything, I would have done a more thorough job with them and they would have looked much better. Too many believe that you can´t use the 5DSR above ISO800. My post was just to show that indeed you can.

Craig´s images are great, but I do not know at what ISO they were shot and I have not seen the RAW files, to assess how much processing they have been through. But they confirm my own experience with the 1DXII, namely that it is an incredibly capable camera.

And it takes how long to adjust the sharpness and noise sliders in LR? If sufficiently sharp, that's all most images need unless you are doing some localized creative sharpening to make certain points stand out.

I think if you have to defend an image by saying you were careless or rushed processing it, you might rethink sharing the image.

If you bother to look at the origin of this, you would see that the reason for posting these two snap shots of the cat was a response to the following statement; "The 5DSR is not a wildlife camera, full stop. Try photographing a leopard on the move at night at 8000 iso with it". A statement probably made by someone who never used a 5DSR for anything, confirming a misconception of what this camera can do at higher ISO.

The only ambition with these two snap shots was to show that you can easily control the noise up to ISO12800. To clarify that I had not done any editing other than a minor highlight reduction and a Luminance NR, I listed that. I did not touch clarity, sharpness, saturation or anything else, which I probably would have, if the intention was to post an image of more value than to illustrate that this camera can well be used for a leopard on the move at ISO8000 (even though the 1DXII is better).

Unlike you, I have posted loads of images, meant to be viewed as such, which you are perfectly welcome to criticise.

I get it Eldar. And yes, I have not posted many pics, for whatever that is worth. I enjoy your posts, and was making an observation not to offend. Apology.

sek

Don't worry, no apology needed.

 

[AshtonNekolah]

Re: CR in Rwanda With The EOS-1D X Mark II

Did the gorillas in Rwanda last october, with 5DSR, 7D2 and 5D2, here's a little selection:

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=18142910&size=lg

5DSR in these circumstances was just brilliant & produced images that are just out of this world. For me, there's no better body for the job. Paired it with 70-200 2.8 IS II most of the time. For gorillas, the crop 7D2 was great but too tight, better for distant elusive chimps & birds. The 5D2, while still producing good quality shots, just made me want to kill the guy who designed its AF. RIP, it died over there in the rain...

Sorry to say and I don't mean disrespect... But those images can't even compare to Craig's. They look flat, over processed and there are a lot of flat highlights and lack of sharpness... Out of this world? Maybe out of this country... Nothing like the quality of the 1DX II... Again. Just my opinion as a viewer.

That's a very ugly thing to say, flat? I never knew the 1D X 2 did 3D images I'll need to upgrade my monitor to see this effect he's talking about I always though that cameras capture 2D. I'll be damed. The guy looks like he didn't edit anything much if at all. That would be expected in the situation it was shot in.