EOS 7D Mark II Basic Specs [CR2]

[CarlMillerPhoto]

• Video features are said to be limited by marketing (or by Magic Lantern)

To me, this is the most interesting part of the rumour. What's not clear is if the limitations are going to be software or hardware. If it is the latter then the problem has become that ML can deliver firmware that is seen by Canon to turn a cheap camera into something that can compete with the expensive ones (the EOS-C series - Cx00, 1DC.) Thus future ML firmware for the 7D2 may be able to deliver new features but it won't be able to deliver (say) RAW 4k video. If the video features are simply software limitations from marketing to prevent competition with the EOS-C series then it will be interesting to see what ML can do with it...

+++++++1

I completely understand how offering better video features might cut into sales of Canon's Cinema line. Given that, it makes sense why Canon would intentionally cripple their products. However, I think Canon needs to be careful on this front. Yes, they might sell a couple more C100's or 1DC's if they continue to go bare-bones on the video features, but I guarantee they'll sell a lot less DSLR's if they make ML impossible to use. A lot of the 5D video shooters aren't willing to jump ship for a $6,500 C100 (which doesn't even have 720p 60fps, has a lower bitrate than the 5D, and a crappy codec!). The people who are upgrading are doing so for XLR inputs & built-in NDs, which will never be on a DSLR, so why not make the minor features (headphone out, 1/47 shutter, live video historgram, etc.) standard on all Canon bodies? It's only a matter of time until Panasonic, Sony, or Black Magic truly nail it with a camera offering (i.e. no weird quarks, no ridiculous mount/sensor size, EOS mount option, same capabilities as the Mark III + ML...minus the raw of course, etc.), and Canon better pray they don't nail it with a full-frame offering.

I think Canon (and perhaps many people on this forum) aren't ready to admit that DSLRs are now both stills and video cameras. It's definitely more profitable to keep them separate, and I get that. Yet, thanks to ML the market has changed. People now expect those features (again, minus the raw) at the $3,500 price point. Canon can fight that all they want, but the fact remains that DSLR shooters have been enjoying those features for quite a while now (who honestly does video on a Canon without ML?). Those features have come to be expected. Canon can hold out as long as they want, but that only increases the possibility of one of the aforementioned manufacturers coming away and completely robbing Canon of its entire DSLR video market. ESPECIALLY if they rid us of ML. I think everyone can at least agree that's a pretty big market to lose.

 

[vlim]

A number of us posted on a thread some time ago (a few months?) - about the time from R&D on new technology and putting into a new DSLR, and the time between initial announcement, to production and final release.

The most knowledgable people (including some CR contributors who work in electronics / R&D) - said that the process would usually take some years with 'new technology', into something like an DSLR.

So, I believe Canon could have a new sensor in the 7DmkII - as well as 1 or 2 other 'great features' (eg improved AF, eg more pts and dual focus LiveView & improved optical focus).

Hoping for such a camera, sometime in 2014!

Regards

Paul

I guess you're right Paul. In terms of marketing this new body has to be really well positionned ; well above the new 70d in terms of specs and price but it can't be in competition with the 5DIII even if it's a FF body (6D is not the problem, this body isn't for wildlife or sport shooting, the 5DIII can easily do it).

So i see its specs and price between those two bodies with high fps (8 to 10), great AF, high iso capabilities but not as good as the 5DIII (FF can't be matched by crop body for now), a weather sealed body and a better version of the sensor of the 70D... I don't see the Wifi in (it would be an upgrade compared to the 5DIII).

 

[Pitspics]

canon should do the following: ;D

- don´t bring a 7d2
- instead bring the 5d3 down to 2000 and the 6d to 1200 ($/€)

result
...the 7d´ler (aps-c´ler) buy the 5d3 and getting superb image-quality. (hey, 2000 is still a lot of $$$).
...5d3 sales growing
...and with the 5d3 you have enough space/quality for cropping the image.

most of the users will be happy 8)

 

[Ewinter]

canon should do the following: ;D

- don´t bring a 7d2
- instead bring the 5d3 down to 2000 and the 6d to 1200 ($/€)

result
...the 7d´ler (aps-c´ler) buy the 5d3 and getting superb image-quality. (hey, 2000 is still a lot of $$$).
...5d3 sales growing
...and with the 5d3 you have enough space/quality for cropping the image.

most of the users will be happy 8)

having a 5d3 I can tell you that I don't have the time to crop 3000 wildlife photos and would rather use my 7d if the light's good

 

[Pitspics]

canon should do the following: ;D

- don´t bring a 7d2
- instead bring the 5d3 down to 2000 and the 6d to 1200 ($/€)

result
...the 7d´ler (aps-c´ler) buy the 5d3 and getting superb image-quality. (hey, 2000 is still a lot of $$$).
...5d3 sales growing
...and with the 5d3 you have enough space/quality for cropping the image.

most of the users will be happy 8)

having a 5d3 I can tell you that I don't have the time to crop 3000 wildlife photos and would rather use my 7d if the light's good

who shoot 3000 photos at once?
i think most of the photographers are still crop their images. no matter with which camera they were taken. (a little bit less on the right side, more center, or a little bit closer, perspective correction...)

 

[stefsan]

canon should do the following: ;D

- don´t bring a 7d2
- instead bring the 5d3 down to 2000 and the 6d to 1200 ($/€)

result
...the 7d´ler (aps-c´ler) buy the 5d3 and getting superb image-quality. (hey, 2000 is still a lot of $$$).
...5d3 sales growing
...and with the 5d3 you have enough space/quality for cropping the image.

most of the users will be happy 8)

Actually, I'm not so sure wether a price drop for the 5D to 2000$ would be enough to entice 7D users to buy into FF. Even now the price of the 5D is not the biggest obstacle, the prices of the lenses are…

 

[stefsan]

So, I believe Canon could have a new sensor in the 7DmkII - as well as 1 or 2 other 'great features' (eg improved AF, eg more pts and dual focus LiveView & improved optical focus).

Hoping for such a camera, sometime in 2014!

Regards

Paul

I really hope they do have a very good new sensor for the 7DmkII. I'm still using my 7DmkI and I still like it very much – except for the excessive noise caused by the sensor/signal processing. I especially hate the banding which is often very visible (think of skies) and rather cumbersome to get rid off in post processing. :-\

 

[Orangutan]

It is a long way from PnP. DSLRs aren't PCs and that sensor isn't plugging into a USB bus.

I certainly didn't mean literally PnP. What I meant was that I think it's unlikely that they can lock down all the specs of the individual components a year or more in advance so that each component group (sensor, firmware, AF, physical controls, body) can have exact specs to work toward. It seems much more likely that they'll tell the component teams "we'd like to have the option for 12fps if we can, but we *really* want 10fps." That tells the teams working on the hardware and firmware what to shoot for, and what management is willing to spend in development time, component cost, etc. At some point they'll start converging on the component set that marketing thinks is best suited to the market environment and target price.

 

[jdramirez]

canon should do the following: ;D

- don´t bring a 7d2
- instead bring the 5d3 down to 2000 and the 6d to 1200 ($/€)

result
...the 7d´ler (aps-c´ler) buy the 5d3 and getting superb image-quality. (hey, 2000 is still a lot of $$$).
...5d3 sales growing
...and with the 5d3 you have enough space/quality for cropping the image.

most of the users will be happy 8)

I wouldn't be happy with Canon devaluing my body that I paid a good deal more for.

 

[Ewinter]

canon should do the following: ;D

- don´t bring a 7d2
- instead bring the 5d3 down to 2000 and the 6d to 1200 ($/€)

result
...the 7d´ler (aps-c´ler) buy the 5d3 and getting superb image-quality. (hey, 2000 is still a lot of $$$).
...5d3 sales growing
...and with the 5d3 you have enough space/quality for cropping the image.

most of the users will be happy 8)

having a 5d3 I can tell you that I don't have the time to crop 3000 wildlife photos and would rather use my 7d if the light's good

who shoot 3000 photos at once?
i think most of the photographers are still crop their images. no matter with which camera they were taken. (a little bit less on the right side, more center, or a little bit closer, perspective correction...)

Me, when I'm away shooting wildlife for two weeks

 

[jrista]

canon should do the following: ;D

- don´t bring a 7d2
- instead bring the 5d3 down to 2000 and the 6d to 1200 ($/€)

result
...the 7d´ler (aps-c´ler) buy the 5d3 and getting superb image-quality. (hey, 2000 is still a lot of $$$).
...5d3 sales growing
...and with the 5d3 you have enough space/quality for cropping the image.

most of the users will be happy 8)

having a 5d3 I can tell you that I don't have the time to crop 3000 wildlife photos and would rather use my 7d if the light's good

who shoot 3000 photos at once?
i think most of the photographers are still crop their images. no matter with which camera they were taken. (a little bit less on the right side, more center, or a little bit closer, perspective correction...)

If I spend a full 8-10 hours in a single day photographing birds and wildlife, with 8fps and a lot of action sequences, I can EASILY fill four to six 16GB CF cards. Six full 16GB CF cards is about 3700 photos. Now, I currently use the 7D, which has an AF system that has the tendency to jump around by a small amount every frame, even when you have kept the AF point on your subject. So I have a habit of taking a minimum of 3-5 shots every time I press the shutter to ensure I get one that is in sharp focus, even when there is not any action. For birds in flight, deer prancing, coyotes running, a single action sequence can be anywhere from 10 to 30 frames, which isn't even four seconds of action.

So it isn't difficult to capture a LOT of photos if you are a wildlife or bird photographer. Actually, it is quite easy, and it takes some effort, when using a camera with a high FPS, to keep total frame count down.

 

[schill]

canon should do the following: ;D

- don´t bring a 7d2
- instead bring the 5d3 down to 2000 and the 6d to 1200 ($/€)

result
...the 7d´ler (aps-c´ler) buy the 5d3 and getting superb image-quality. (hey, 2000 is still a lot of $$$).
...5d3 sales growing
...and with the 5d3 you have enough space/quality for cropping the image.

most of the users will be happy 8)

Actually, I'm not so sure wether a price drop for the 5D to 2000$ would be enough to entice 7D users to buy into FF. Even now the price of the 5D is not the biggest obstacle, the prices of the lenses is…

A 5D III could not replace my 7D for a lot of what I shoot. I would not be happy dropping from 8fps to 6fps.

For other things, I'd like to have a 5D III, but it would not be a complete replacement.

 

[M.ST]

I agree. The posted specs match the prototype specs that is out for testing.

 

[AlanF]

canon should do the following: ;D

- don´t bring a 7d2
- instead bring the 5d3 down to 2000 and the 6d to 1200 ($/€)

result
...the 7d´ler (aps-c´ler) buy the 5d3 and getting superb image-quality. (hey, 2000 is still a lot of $$$).
...5d3 sales growing
...and with the 5d3 you have enough space/quality for cropping the image.

most of the users will be happy 8)

having a 5d3 I can tell you that I don't have the time to crop 3000 wildlife photos and would rather use my 7d if the light's good

who shoot 3000 photos at once?
i think most of the photographers are still crop their images. no matter with which camera they were taken. (a little bit less on the right side, more center, or a little bit closer, perspective correction...)

If I spend a full 8-10 hours in a single day photographing birds and wildlife, with 8fps and a lot of action sequences, I can EASILY fill four to six 16GB CF cards. Six full 16GB CF cards is about 3700 photos. Now, I currently use the 7D, which has an AF system that has the tendency to jump around by a small amount every frame, even when you have kept the AF point on your subject. So I have a habit of taking a minimum of 3-5 shots every time I press the shutter to ensure I get one that is in sharp focus, even when there is not any action. For birds in flight, deer prancing, coyotes running, a single action sequence can be anywhere from 10 to 30 frames, which isn't even four seconds of action.

So it isn't difficult to capture a LOT of photos if you are a wildlife or bird photographer. Actually, it is quite easy, and it takes some effort, when using a camera with a high FPS, to keep total frame count down.

The erratic AF is the worst feature of the 7D and I have the same habit of taking multiple shots to get one in focus. I still take too many on the 5D III, quite unnecessarily because of habit, as the focus is bang on every time. If the 7D II just has AF as good as on the 5D III and an upgrade in sensor noise, then I'll rush out and buy one.

 

[unfocused]

Just a bit of idle speculating here, but I wonder if the video and stills roads, that have been converging for the past five years or so, may eventually start to diverge again.

Is it really possible to continue to produce a single DSLR body that meets the needs of stills photographers and videographers as both demand more and more sophisticated features and image quality improvements?

From the early reviews, it sounds as though the 70D focused on video improvements over stills. That's not to say it doesn't offer a lot to stills photographers, just that the real technology improvements seem to have been focused on video.

As a completely non-technical person, I keep wondering if Canon can obtain equal or slightly better performance from the new 70D sensor while splitting the pixels into dual purposes, what kind of performance would they get if they didn't require each pixel to serve two purposes? And, having now spent so much money and effort developing their new dual-purpose pixels, would Canon be willing to leave it off of the 7D even it it would mean improvements in sensor performance for stills?

As I said, I'm coming at this from a non-technical background, but I do wonder if a 70D that is designed 60% for video and 40% for stills might be better complemented by a 7DII that is 60% stills and 40% video.

 

[jrista]

canon should do the following: ;D

- don´t bring a 7d2
- instead bring the 5d3 down to 2000 and the 6d to 1200 ($/€)

result
...the 7d´ler (aps-c´ler) buy the 5d3 and getting superb image-quality. (hey, 2000 is still a lot of $$$).
...5d3 sales growing
...and with the 5d3 you have enough space/quality for cropping the image.

most of the users will be happy 8)

having a 5d3 I can tell you that I don't have the time to crop 3000 wildlife photos and would rather use my 7d if the light's good

who shoot 3000 photos at once?
i think most of the photographers are still crop their images. no matter with which camera they were taken. (a little bit less on the right side, more center, or a little bit closer, perspective correction...)

If I spend a full 8-10 hours in a single day photographing birds and wildlife, with 8fps and a lot of action sequences, I can EASILY fill four to six 16GB CF cards. Six full 16GB CF cards is about 3700 photos. Now, I currently use the 7D, which has an AF system that has the tendency to jump around by a small amount every frame, even when you have kept the AF point on your subject. So I have a habit of taking a minimum of 3-5 shots every time I press the shutter to ensure I get one that is in sharp focus, even when there is not any action. For birds in flight, deer prancing, coyotes running, a single action sequence can be anywhere from 10 to 30 frames, which isn't even four seconds of action.

So it isn't difficult to capture a LOT of photos if you are a wildlife or bird photographer. Actually, it is quite easy, and it takes some effort, when using a camera with a high FPS, to keep total frame count down.

The erratic AF is the worst feature of the 7D and I have the same habit of taking multiple shots to get one in focus. I still take too many on the 5D III, quite unnecessarily because of habit, as the focus is bang on every time. If the 7D II just has AF as good as on the 5D III and an upgrade in sensor noise, then I'll rush out and buy one.

Ditto! Although in the mean time, I'll be buying a 5D III in the short term. With the 7D II rumors as they are, and the release date some time middle/end of next year, a 5D III will do me FAR more good now than waiting for the 7D II (even if it has an awesome AF system.)

 

[jrista]

Just a bit of idle speculating here, but I wonder if the video and stills roads, that have been converging for the past five years or so, may eventually start to diverge again.

Is it really possible to continue to produce a single DSLR body that meets the needs of stills photographers and videographers as both demand more and more sophisticated features and image quality improvements?

From the early reviews, it sounds as though the 70D focused on video improvements over stills. That's not to say it doesn't offer a lot to stills photographers, just that the real technology improvements seem to have been focused on video.

As a completely non-technical person, I keep wondering if Canon can obtain equal or slightly better performance from the new 70D sensor while splitting the pixels into dual purposes, what kind of performance would they get if they didn't require each pixel to serve two purposes? And, having now spent so much money and effort developing their new dual-purpose pixels, would Canon be willing to leave it off of the 7D even it it would mean improvements in sensor performance for stills?

As I said, I'm coming at this from a non-technical background, but I do wonder if a 70D that is designed 60% for video and 40% for stills might be better complemented by a 7DII that is 60% stills and 40% video.

I would personally like the two to diverge. I have felt for a while now that Canon has been putting too much effort into the video side of things, and not enough into the stills side of things. I would be willing to bet that if they focused video on the Cinema line, and stills on the DSLR line, they could produce better IQ in their stills products. I also bet that probably costs more than combining the R&D together into a single larger set of products.

Anyway, totally agree about the 7D II, although personally I'd prefer 80% stills/20% video.

 

[docsmith]

Ha....I am not the only one.

I upgraded to the 5DIII in late January from the 7D and didn't even realize until I shot with the 5DIII that I had the habit of shooting multiple shots of a scene to get the one good one. Processing the files from the 5DIII I would toggle between the shots not able to tell one from the other...they were all good. With the 7D, it was pretty obvious which ones to keep and which to purge. I am very slowly training myself out of the habit with the 5DIII, but only taking 1 or 2 shots for a scene just doesn't feel right.

 

[jrista]

Ha....I am not the only one.

I upgraded to the 5DIII in late January from the 7D and didn't even realize until I shot with the 5DIII that I had the habit of shooting multiple shots of a scene to get the one good one. Processing the files from the 5DIII I would toggle between the shots not able to tell one from the other...they were all good. With the 7D, it was pretty obvious which ones to keep and which to purge. I am very slowly training myself out of the habit with the 5DIII, but only taking 1 or 2 shots for a scene just doesn't feel right.

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one as well. There were a few times when I wondered if I had a bad copy of the 7D. Can't wait to get my hands on the 5D III...with the bigger sensor and some careful sneak-technique, I can only imagine what it will do for the quality of my bird photography.

 

[ahsanford]

Ha....I am not the only one.

I upgraded to the 5DIII in late January from the 7D and didn't even realize until I shot with the 5DIII that I had the habit of shooting multiple shots of a scene to get the one good one. Processing the files from the 5DIII I would toggle between the shots not able to tell one from the other...they were all good. With the 7D, it was pretty obvious which ones to keep and which to purge. I am very slowly training myself out of the habit with the 5DIII, but only taking 1 or 2 shots for a scene just doesn't feel right.

I've been saying this for some time. Getting the 1DX/5D3-style AF on a crop has huge value for existing 7D owners, esp. burst / servo shooters.

At first, a loooooot of people said that the 5D3 was not worth upgrading from a 5D2 at first for sensor/MP reasons. It just didn't seem different/better enough at first glance. But AF (and, to be fair, lots of small upgrades like the 100% VF, dual cards, customizable buttons, headphone jack, etc.) was such an obvious improvement that it should have been an obvious call.

I think that the 7D camp will have a similar take once the 7D2 is announced, though the starting point for AF with the 7D is much better than the 5D2 was. But, in fairness, the 7D camp is madly demanding of their AF with their wildlife / sports pursuits.

- A