EOS M5: A damnend good camera!

JoFT

I do love photography
Nov 9, 2014
228
64
61
Germany
delightphoto.zenfolio.com
I do have my copy of the EOS M5 since nearly 2 weeks. I must say "Chapeau Canon"!!! The M5 is a really good camera. It is a lot of fun to work with the camera and it is delivering extremely good images.

I can compare pretty well with other leading mirrorless cameras - the Panasonic µ43. I do own the GX80 and have 7 years of experience with the µ43 system: It is nice and excellent to carry with you. And I own 3 generations of 5D´s as well as 2 generations of 7D´s. In terms of APS-C: The M5 ist the best offering of Canon (of course in addition to the 80D). It is a better add-on to a 5D4 than the 7D2 is. It is just a tiny little always with you thing - like my 43. But I need not to support 2 worlds.

The charm of the systems comes best with native EOS-M lenses. There are not many but nice ones. I have now
  • EF-M 22mm f2.0
  • EF-M 28mm f3.5 macro
  • Rokinon 12mm f2
With this lenses I cover most of the cases. And I can add my EF-glass whenever I need... And the camera is great with the 35mm f1.4L II or the Milvus lenses.... It works just great. And the confidence in autofocus is best in class!!! (Not the speed)

Of course there are some curiosities in the system which Canon should improve:
  • The camera does not transfer exif data of 3rd party lenses (f.i. my Zeiss Milvus 50mm f1.4 does not show up with proper data)
  • AK-Swiss seems to be unknown @ Canon: with such an tripod adapter mounted an exchange of battery as well as an SD card is impossible
  • Time Lapse does not work with internal recording
  • HDR mode is there but it is impossible to store the raw-files.
  • Using a Yongnuo flash transmitter (622TX) results in a pretty strange behavior of the M5: if you try to open the external flash menu the screen gets dark - and the camera makes some strange noise.
And there are some topics I am missing in the Canon mirrorless world - but I hope this is going to come...
  • no IBIS
  • no 4k Video
  • no fully articulated screen
  • no weather sealing
  • relatively slow autofocus
  • small viewfinder
To give you an idea about the comparison in image quality between EOS M5/7D2/GX80 one example is attached. This image is developed in a bit weird setting: +5EV, Lights -100%, Shadows +100%....
 

Attachments

  • M5 vs 7D vs GX80 +5EVC.JPG
    M5 vs 7D vs GX80 +5EVC.JPG
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Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Mar 25, 2011
16,634
1,591
Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

What kind of photographer / camera needs +5 stops to develop a image?

I tend to doubt any review based on boosting images by 5 stops, a camera should not be so bad as to make that necessary.

Assuming that it was the photographer that exposed 5 stops under and not the camera, I'd be concerned by slow AF speed, which is something I value along with ability to expose properly and have good IQ.
 

old-pr-pix

EOS RP
Dec 26, 2011
425
64
Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

JoFT said:
... The M5 is a really good camera. It is a lot of fun to work with the camera and it is delivering extremely good images. ...
... missing in the Canon mirrorless world - but I hope this is going to come...
  • no IBIS
  • no 4k Video
  • no fully articulated screen
  • no weather sealing
  • relatively slow autofocus
  • small viewfinder
I'm happy to hear you are pleased with the M5. It's good to see Canon making progress with the M series! I also have dual systems - Olympus m43 in my case. I would love to love the M5, except your list of missing items is exactly why I bought into the Olympus system to begin with (well, except for 4K video which I don't need). Plus, the list of top quality Oly and Panasonic pro grade lenses goes far, far beyond the few Canon offerings. Putting adapted EF lenses on a small mirrorless body just means big, heavy lenses on a small body. 'Til Canon addresses your list I fear I'm stuck with the two systems! Obviously these items are not simple firmware upgrades, they are whole new generations of bodies.

I also don't get the point of your comparison - they all look like crap w/5ev exposure error?!
 

JoFT

I do love photography
Nov 9, 2014
228
64
61
Germany
delightphoto.zenfolio.com
Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

Mt Spokane Photography said:
What kind of photographer / camera needs +5 stops to develop a image?

I tend to doubt any review based on boosting images by 5 stops, a camera should not be so bad as to make that necessary.

Assuming that it was the photographer that exposed 5 stops under and not the camera, I'd be concerned by slow AF speed, which is something I value along with ability to expose properly and have good IQ.


This is a test which shows only how much detail is in the shadow areas. I use this method to get information when the noise in the shadows goes up like hell. It clearly indicates the dynamic range and tis noise handling....
 

Jopa

EOS R
Dec 11, 2015
1,054
0
Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

Mt Spokane Photography said:
What kind of photographer / camera needs +5 stops to develop a image?

I tend to doubt any review based on boosting images by 5 stops, a camera should not be so bad as to make that necessary.

Assuming that it was the photographer that exposed 5 stops under and not the camera, I'd be concerned by slow AF speed, which is something I value along with ability to expose properly and have good IQ.

You are old school. According to DPReview it's the main purpose of any camera nowadays. 5 stops is actually old school too. 6 stops is the future. My 5dsr can't even hold up to 4 stops, what a piece of garbage!!! ;D
 

JoFT

I do love photography
Nov 9, 2014
228
64
61
Germany
delightphoto.zenfolio.com
Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

Jopa said:
Mt Spokane Photography said:
What kind of photographer / camera needs +5 stops to develop a image?

I tend to doubt any review based on boosting images by 5 stops, a camera should not be so bad as to make that necessary.

Assuming that it was the photographer that exposed 5 stops under and not the camera, I'd be concerned by slow AF speed, which is something I value along with ability to expose properly and have good IQ.

You are old school. According to DPReview it's the main purpose of any camera nowadays. 5 stops is actually old school too. 6 stops is the future. My 5dsr can't even hold up to 4 stops, what a piece of garbage!!! ;D


...and I did 5 stops - which is the max LR is offering plus another 2 via enhancing the shadows... results in +7...
 

JoFT

I do love photography
Nov 9, 2014
228
64
61
Germany
delightphoto.zenfolio.com
Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

Let me make one comment on a feature that really blows me away: The connectivity. It is so easy to transfer photos to iOS (I guess with Android it´s similar) and publish them on instagram.... https://www.instagram.com/delightphotos/ Believe it or not: even if you shoot raw - the camera will transfer jpg to iOS. On the mac it is even transferring RAW wireless.


This implementation is much more straight forward in comparison to panasonics solution. With Pana you have to shoot jpg if you want to share images on social media.


Congrats Canon!!!
 

danski0224

EOS R
Apr 24, 2011
1,104
12
Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

The big fails of the M5 are (1) lens IS is always on and (2) the flip screen is incompatible with a camera Arca plate.

(1) might be fixed with a firmware update but (2) can't be so easily fixed.

Guess I'll wait for the next one :)
 

JohnUSA

EOS M6 Mark II
Jun 14, 2013
87
0
Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

Many Thanks for the excellent review JoFT. Great to see Canon finally getting a handle on the mirrorless camera sector.
 

Crosswind

The bigger your Canon, the smaller your Cannon :)
Feb 2, 2015
195
0
Austria
Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

JoFT said:
Believe it or not: even if you shoot raw - the camera will transfer jpg to iOS. On the mac it is even transferring RAW wireless.


This implementation is much more straight forward in comparison to panasonics solution. With Pana you have to shoot jpg if you want to share images on social media.


Congrats Canon!!!

Not to forget that you can quickly process your RAW files in-camera to your likings, save it as jpg, transfer to your phone and it is ready to be shared. If you like, there are very capable android apps like snapseed (almost as good as LR) to further enhance your image in a few quick steps. That's really nice and it doesn't take much time.

(Though if I really want the best, then I will process the RAW files in LR on my desktop PC of course)
 

Crosswind

The bigger your Canon, the smaller your Cannon :)
Feb 2, 2015
195
0
Austria
Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

Yes it does. I use it when I don't need to edit the pictures that much (documentary or snapshots of my family). The in-camera processing options are just very basic, but good enough for non-professional work. I like the new FD (fine detail) picture style the most.

The new digic7 processor could be a bit snappier (still some minor lag), but that's not an issue at all IMO. Its JPG engine is pretty nice though as it's not as "mushy" (if that's even the right term) as the one of the EOS 6D (at the pixel level / 100% view).

Why are you asking, do you want to buy the camera?
 

Hector1970

EOS R
CR Pro
Mar 22, 2012
1,275
470
Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

I have an Olympus which is very good but let down by its poorly thought out and confusing menu system.probabl due to trying to fit in too many options. Simple setting changes are hard. It really effects the ability to take photographs. You point about using EF lens is valid , too heavy for the M5 but the Olympus pro glass is surprisingly hefty and alsounbalances their cameras and takes the camera from being compact to being large enough and heavy. Their glass is very good

old-pr-pix said:
JoFT said:
... The M5 is a really good camera. It is a lot of fun to work with the camera and it is delivering ex
I'm happy to hear you are pleased with the M5. It's good to see Canon making progress with the M series! I also have dual systems - Olympus m43 in my case. I would love to love the M5, except your list of missing items is exactly why I bought into the Olympus system to begin with (well, except for 4K video which I don't need). Plus, the list of top quality Oly and Panasonic pro grade lenses goes far, far beyond the few Canon offerings. Putting adapted EF lenses on a small mirrorless body just means big, heavy lenses on a small body.
 

Crosswind

The bigger your Canon, the smaller your Cannon :)
Feb 2, 2015
195
0
Austria
Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

Though I can understand his critique; it's not the camera - it's the lens that lacks an IS ON/OFF switch. You can disable it, but for that you'd have to go into the menu - which is very inconvenient. There are some reasons why you'd want to quickly enable or disable it at times (saving energy when temporarily shooting at faster shutter speeds, tripod work, etc.) and there are no native EF-M lenses which feature such a thing, but some EF-S lenses for example do. Even when reviewing the pictures on the rear display, the IS doesn't stop working, which is completely unnecessary. This should be done automatically IMO, which could be fixed in a firmware upgrade. It'd definitely help saving some energy over a long period of time. And the battery life is already very limited for MILCs.

But these are only some of the reasons why I prefer to use non EF-M lenses and always leave my EF/EF-M adapter mounted on the camera. Some might argue "then why I'm not just using a small DSLR (like the rebel SL-series) instead?" - but then I wouldn't have all the advantages of a MILC.
 

jolyonralph

EOS R5 Mark II
CR Pro
Aug 25, 2015
1,415
907
London, UK
www.everyothershot.com
Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

The M5 is by far the best MILC from Canon so far, but Canon are still a good 2-3 years behind Sony in the field.

What's interesting is the ergonomics of the M5 are still designed around smaller (female?) hands - not necessarily a bad thing but I find it a bit difficult to use compared with the Sony A6000 which is slightly wider.

Other things I dislike about the M5:

Only rudimentary battery power level indicator. No % indicator
Slow startup speed - it's actually slightly slower to start up than the M3, and way slower than the A6000
No 4K
Does not support USB tethered shooting.

And it's a real shame that no Canon camera has the feature that the Sony cameras do that you can charge the battery inside the camera when the USB cable is connected to a power source or a computer. Very handy for charging the camera in the car etc.

So. Canon really must do better if they want to do a professional MILC. I like the M5 and I will probably use mine MORE than the A6000, but it could have been so much better.
 

bholliman

EOS R
Dec 6, 2012
1,473
0
USA
www.flickr.com
Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

Crosswind said:
Though I can understand his critique; it's not the camera - it's the lens that lacks an IS ON/OFF switch. You can disable it, but for that you'd have to go into the menu - which is very inconvenient. There are some reasons why you'd want to quickly enable or disable it at times (saving energy when temporarily shooting at faster shutter speeds, tripod work, etc.) and there are no native EF-M lenses which feature such a thing, but some EF-S lenses for example do. Even when reviewing the pictures on the rear display, the IS doesn't stop working, which is completely unnecessary. This should be done automatically IMO, which could be fixed in a firmware upgrade. It'd definitely help saving some energy over a long period of time. And the battery life is already very limited for MILCs.

But these are only some of the reasons why I prefer to use non EF-M lenses and always leave my EF/EF-M adapter mounted on the camera. Some might argue "then why I'm not just using a small DSLR (like the rebel SL-series) instead?" - but then I wouldn't have all the advantages of a MILC.

I've run into the issue you mentioned when using continuous focus. As long as the camera is on, it will continue to focus (go figure), even if you are doing something beside shooting at that time, which does drain the battery. My initial solution was to turn the camera off when I wasn't shooting, but that is a bit inconvenient and not a solution if you want to view images on the camera.

So, my current solution is to temporarily put the camera in manual focus mode by tapping the left side of the rear wheel (default setting "MF") with my thumb when I'm not shooting. The camera will stop continuously auto focusing until you turn AF back on with another thumb tap. This has worked pretty well for me, faster than turning the camera off/on or switching in and out of continuous auto focus mode. Having a AF/MF switch on the lens would take longer.
 

bholliman

EOS R
Dec 6, 2012
1,473
0
USA
www.flickr.com
Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

jolyonralph said:
The M5 is by far the best MILC from Canon so far, but Canon are still a good 2-3 years behind Sony in the field.

What's interesting is the ergonomics of the M5 are still designed around smaller (female?) hands - not necessarily a bad thing but I find it a bit difficult to use compared with the Sony A6000 which is slightly wider.

Other things I dislike about the M5:

Only rudimentary battery power level indicator. No % indicator
Slow startup speed - it's actually slightly slower to start up than the M3, and way slower than the A6000
No 4K
Does not support USB tethered shooting.

And it's a real shame that no Canon camera has the feature that the Sony cameras do that you can charge the battery inside the camera when the USB cable is connected to a power source or a computer. Very handy for charging the camera in the car etc.

So. Canon really must do better if they want to do a professional MILC. I like the M5 and I will probably use mine MORE than the A6000, but it could have been so much better.

All cameras have their advantages and disadvantages. You have to make a personal decision between what is available in the market and your personal preferences and budget. The comments about the M5 being 2-3-4 years behind the competition seem to be based on it not having 4k video (which doesn't matter to many of us), its other features are certainly in line with the competition. And the M5 has a big plus the competition doesn't: Canon's excellent service and support and access to the best family of lenses in the industry (EF/EF-S/EF-M).

jolyonralph said:
What's interesting is the ergonomics of the M5 are still designed around smaller (female?) hands - not necessarily a bad thing but I find it a bit difficult to use compared with the Sony A6000 which is slightly wider.

I'm a guy with larger than average hands, my 5DsR is certainly easier and more ergonomic for me to operate than the M5, but I can live with that since I bought the M5 since it was a small camera. Canon packed lots of control options into a small package with the M5. Personally, I'm glad they did.
 
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