Gerald Undone completes exhaustive record time testing on the Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS R6

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,743
1,307
There is a ton of examination on the R5 going on around the web, and your information would be the first example of a new problem, and the reception to it would be much different here.

Without any sort of evidence, your experience runs completely against everything that is available out there (and there is a lot out there), so I can't imagine why you'd be surprised at it being received with a whole lot of doubt.

His report is not the first example of a new problem, but rather another example of a known problem. And his experience is in line with what's available out there. Stills shooting can drive HQ video record times to zero in 80-90F weather. It would be foolish to assume that stills alone could never drive the chipset to thermal shutdown, especially in hotter weather.
 
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PGSanta

EOS 90D
Sep 5, 2018
186
152
San Diego, CA
His report is not the first example of a new problem, but rather another example of a known problem. And his experience is in line with what's available out there. Stills shooting can drive HQ video record times to zero in 80-90F weather. It would be foolish to assume that stills alone could never drive the chipset to thermal shutdown, especially in hotter weather.

We aren't talking about HQ recording times. Stills can definitely be stud down... I mean we can place the body in an oven at 400° and that should do it.

The point is that there isn't a single piece of real evidence floating around anywhere through respected channels that the stills option is locked out after the video heat lock out. Not one.

There is also not a single piece of real evidence out there that shows that the body can shut itself out of using stills through shooting stills. Not one.

Please share with us a link to some solid piece of evidence that shows one of these, that isn't just a post on a forum, or a speculative rant from a web page owner that doesn't even have access to the camera. Just one. And I'll say I was wrong. I'm not though... so it's all good.

We know you'll just repeat your line that the camera can't shoot 8K and HQ after extensive stills use. I'll save you some time, that doesn't support your claim.
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,743
1,307
The point is that there isn't a single piece of real evidence...

I love it. If Chelsea Northrup says she couldn't shoot videos after shooting stills, she's a YouTube talking head and forum reports are "real evidence." If a forum member says the camera overheated just shooting stills, he's just some dude in a forum and we need YouTube reviewers for "real evidence."

I've conceded it may be a defective unit. But pretending there's no chance it's another angle on a real problem is just massive levels of cope.

...floating around anywhere through respected channels that the stills option is locked out after the video heat lock out.

You would have to be clueless about basic thermodynamics to believe that stills/video shooting in 80-90F can drive the camera into thermal protection but stills alone would never, ever drive it all the way to shutdown. Maybe not. Maybe stills just don't produce enough heat to push it out of that yellow zone. But to be this mentally closed off to the possibility?

There is also not a single piece of real evidence out there that shows that the body can shut itself out of using stills through shooting stills. Not one.

You're right, there's not one. There's actually two. I imagine this would be harder to trigger and YouTube reviewers aren't going to investigate it until one of them hits it in the field. But from what we know right now I'm expecting it won't be long until some "real evidence" reviewer hits it.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we're just talking about a couple defective units. Maybe the camera can hold the line at overheating with stills even at 100-110F. But only a fool would discount the possibility entirely given what we know.
 
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PGSanta

EOS 90D
Sep 5, 2018
186
152
San Diego, CA
I love it. If Chelsea Northrup says she couldn't shoot videos after shooting stills, she's a YouTube talking head and forum reports are "real evidence." If a forum member says the camera overheated just shooting stills, he's just some dude in a forum and we need YouTube reviewers for "real evidence."

I've conceded it may be a defective unit. But pretending there's no chance it's another angle on a real problem is just massive levels of cope.



You would have to be clueless about basic thermodynamics to believe that stills/video shooting in 80-90F can drive the camera into thermal protection but stills alone would never, ever drive it all the way to shutdown. Maybe not. Maybe stills just don't produce enough heat to push it out of that yellow zone. But to be this mentally closed off to the possibility?



You're right, there's not one. There's actually two. I imagine this would be harder to trigger and YouTube reviewers aren't going to investigate it until one of them hits it in the field. But from what we know right now I'm expecting it won't be long until some "real evidence" reviewer hits it.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we're just talking about a couple defective units. Maybe the camera can hold the line at overheating with stills even at 100-110F. But only a fool would discount the possibility entirely given what we know.


That's what I thought. Keep repeating yourself, we all know you're full of ... something... when you can't post even a single link.
 

NorskHest

EOS 90D
CR Pro
Jan 11, 2018
149
181
Minnesota - US
Visit site
Please don't take my "trolling" comment offensively. I was merely speaking to hypotheticals. If there was only one random report of overheating then I would assume a defective R5 or possibly a trolling attempt. You have a history at this forum so naturally the assumption would be a defective unit and not trolling. But clearly your report is not in isolation.

I apologize for not making that more clear, and I (for one) value your report.
you can call me a troll thats fine, im not butt hurt, i just finding it incredible when youre doing something to be nice that people think youre talking shit to just talk shit or being a troll from a sony forum. i just dont want people to waste money in this covid world when life is stressed and money is tight. hope all is rad
 

vjlex

EOS R5
Oct 15, 2011
416
314
Osaka, Japan
What are you on about? All I am saying is that shooting 2500 frames in 2 hours has never been an issue. You can do that even with 5DsR. It doesn‘t require 12FPS or 1200mbit/s write to card speed.

it is a reasonable expectation for a pro level body to keep up with such a task without overheating.

So you're one of those people who tries to win imaginary internet arguments by non sequiturs and strawmen.
There's no need to quote me if you're not directly addressing something I actually said.
If you don't understand the claim that someone is making, either ask for clarification or ignore it; don't proceed to make things up and argue against that.

Taking 2,500 photos in 2 hours is not at issue here. Taking 'a few thousand rounds' of photos while 'leaning on the shutter' to the point that a red thermometer warning light comes on, and then proceeding to lean on the shutter more and then feign surprise that the warning wasn't a bluff is the issue. Taking an excessive amount of high speed shots while moving enormous amounts of data in a compressed amount of time for extended periods is the issue. You're the one assuming that these were 'shorter bursts of 1-2, max 3'; not me. And nowhere did the poster I was replying to state that. If you can't understand the difference between what I'm saying and what you're claiming I said, then there is nothing further to discuss.
 
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vjlex

EOS R5
Oct 15, 2011
416
314
Osaka, Japan
It turns out the FM user only got a heat warning icon, and his camera turned off due to the battery dying. He said he put in a new battery and was shooting stills again (warning went away, too).
Thanks for the update. I didn't get around to following up on that thread yet. That's the kind of details that people who make these original claims are leaving out, then crying that they're being attacked by Canon worshipers when people are only trying to get the facts to make an accurate assessment of the situation.
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,743
1,307
That's what I thought. Keep repeating yourself, we all know you're full of ... something... when you can't post even a single link.

Honest question: if you're wrong and more data comes in regarding overheating with stills, how will you cope?
 

SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
2,376
1,246
So you're one of those people who tries to win imaginary internet arguments by non sequiturs and strawmen.
There's no need to quote me if you're not directly addressing something I actually said.
If you don't understand the claim that someone is making, either ask for clarification or ignore it; don't proceed to make things up and argue against that.

Taking 2,500 photos in 2 hours is not at issue here. Taking 'a few thousand rounds' of photos while 'leaning on the shutter' to the point that a red thermometer warning light comes on, and then proceeding to lean on the shutter more and then feign surprise that the warning wasn't a bluff is the issue. Taking an excessive amount of high speed shots while moving enormous amounts of data in a compressed amount of time for extended periods is the issue. You're the one assuming that these were 'shorter bursts of 1-2, max 3'; not me. And nowhere did the poster I was replying to state that. If you can't understand the difference between what I'm saying and what you're claiming I said, then there is nothing further to discuss.
Oh, please. The poster though stated: a few thousand round were taken in a matter of few hours. shooting motorsports. Did you ever shot motorsports? I thought so...you mentioned that you have no experience shooting in bursts. Then stop pretending that you understand what you are talking about. Your argument RE DPRAW and 45Mb file size is weak..
you are obviously out of your depth here so why would we not wrap This meaningless argument up and part our ways?
nobody is arguing that R5 overheats taking still. There is an occurrence that has been reported and If true, is not something acceptable for a 5 series level body.
 
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Honest question: if you're wrong and more data comes in regarding overheating with stills, how will you cope?
Take it back to Canon and tell them it is faulty according to their specification.....

The current video issues *appear* to stem from reading most of the sensor (8k) as even the HQ modes are sampling the full 8K. That's a significant amount of data which it needs to compress into a h265 format. I don't know how this compares to Canon RAW or their newer CRaw, and whether Digic assists in that like h265 or not. I just hope it (high fps stills) is not taxing it (Digic) as much as constant video, and that the overheating is primarily caused by the higher data rates and their compression (sure the rest of the system is contributing to the heat, but it's only the 8K reading which seems to push things over)...

I can see for some sports, if you're watching a race from various positions and with numerous competitors then you're going to fire off a lot of shots - if you're panning and blurring the background then that is the technique, no? When I have been lucky enough to go on Safari, there have been times where for a couple of hours, it has been teeming with wildlife and the interaction has been incredible. I am sure I have rattled off many shots trying to capture the "action".

With the R5, I doubt many people have had their cameras long enough to do such events, in the coming days and weeks we will find out if this is an unusual occurrence or indeed if there is a threshold for stills. We now know that there could be the potential, and when people's R5 arrives if that user-case is a possibility for them, then they need to try it out and see, or at least be mindful of the fact and take some precaution... On that basis alone, the information is useful (thanks NorskHest). I'm sure his friend is now checking out their R5 further and will decide for them if they need to seek Canon's assistance or not.

For me, when mine arrives, if it couldn't do the shooting I want to do in reasonable conditions (predominantly stills) without hampering me then I think I would go back to Canon and ask them to fix or refund. I've not seen any caveats from Canon on stills shooting (I don't recall there ever being such a warning on any body I've owned from them). I agree that the R5 is pushing more data around the system but it's these capabilities which has attracted me to it. Whether my opinion would change if I found out I had to lower it to 10fps vs 12fps constant use I don't know. It would just make me nervous on the occasions where I use it that it would be possible to push it into shutdown.... Having said that, I did have the infamous 1Ds MK III (second hand) and lived with the limitations...

At the end of the day, as many people have said, it's a personal choice. Does the R5 work or not work for what you want it to do. People can beg to differ, sure, but ultimately you're the one paying so you get to chose. And no offence to anyone here, but it doesnt matter how much I might get berated for any decision I may make in future, it's not saying anything about any decision you make. It would be great if people could just respect each other's decisions.
 

CvH

EOS 90D
CR Pro
Nov 19, 2014
199
96
Oh, please. The poster though stated: a few thousand round were taken in a matter of few hours. shooting motorsports. Did you ever shot motorsports? I thought so...you mentioned that you have no experience shooting in bursts. Then stop pretending that you understand what you are talking about. Your argument RE DPRAW and 45Mb file size is weak..
you are obviously out of your depth here so why would we not wrap This meaningless argument up and part our ways?
nobody is arguing that R5 overheats taking still. There is an occurrence that has been reported and If true, is not something acceptable for a 5 series level body.

Agree. The R5 is the top of the line mirrorless from Canon. It targets the pros and serious amateurs. It ought to able to perform at its specifications (12/20fps) all day in extreme conditions.
 

HarryFilm

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2016
718
171
These figures all seem fine to me (4K normal quality is probably good enough for many already), especially with the external recorder.
It is the cooldown period, which is the real problem, maybe they can make tweak that a little bit with software.

If that Tilta cooling kit or something like that actually works in practise (even though it looks quite ridiculous and probably quite loud when it works) they might sell quite a few of those.

We might not see another 8K camera with a great IBIS, etc. like this any time soon, it is a unique product, no matter how flawed it is being presumed, people expected it to cost a lot more initially (and I expected the rolling shutter to be much worse than it is, although curious to see the measurements).


I am quite sure based upon what I've done with the Sony A7s2, that instead of the Tilta, I would rather use a finely bladed multi-finned computer-CPU-oriented COPPER heat sink with a fan attached to where the flip-out live-view monitor normally goes on the Canon R5.

The Tilta sounds good on paper, but it looks faaaaar too plasticky to me for it to make any major difference in heat removal. For that, you need the ACTUAL MASS of a solid or well-finned thermal-transfer efficient block of METAL like solid copper or aluminum!

For less than $50 I am pretty sure the copper block CPU heat sink will perform much better. If you REALLY want to get fancy, I can also suggest putting a higher-end $150 water block cooler as an insert and I will bet you there will be NO OVERHEATING ISSUES on the Canon R5! You just put the water block re-condensation and/or radiator unit on the left side of a Camera Cage to keep it out of the way of the R5 camera controls. Another way is to use an EXTERNAL BATTERY (i.e. a long-battery-life external Anton Bauer battery system) and blow COOL AIR into the empty R5 battery compartment from a cooling fan to remove heat that way!

SOMEONE will soon enough figure out the BEST WAY to keep the R5 cool! Again, those multiple flexible blue-gel-based cooling pads bought from your local Dollar Store that have been kept in an ice cooler for a few hours and applied/wrapped about the bottom and back of the R5 camera within a thin cloth sack SHOULD ALSO do the trick. Just swap the cooling gel pads out with newly cold ones when they start getting excessively warm. That's the cheapest solution at about $25 US for multiple gel-based cooling pads!

V
 

SteveC

R5
CR Pro
Sep 3, 2019
2,481
2,346
I am quite sure based upon what I've done with the Sony A7s2, that instead of the Tilta, I would rather use a finely bladed multi-finned computer-CPU-oriented COPPER heat sink with a fan attached to where the flip-out live-view monitor normally goes on the Canon R5.

The Tilta sounds good on paper, but it looks faaaaar too plasticky to me for it to make any major difference in heat removal. For that, you need the ACTUAL MASS of a solid or well-finned thermal-transfer efficient block of METAL like solid copper or aluminum!

For less than $50 I am pretty sure the copper block CPU heat sink will perform much better. If you REALLY want to get fancy, I can also suggest putting a higher-end $150 water block cooler as an insert and I will bet you there will be NO OVERHEATING ISSUES on the Canon R5! You just put the water block re-condensation and/or radiator unit on the left side of a Camera Cage to keep it out of the way of the R5 camera controls. Another way is to use an EXTERNAL BATTERY (i.e. a long-battery-life external Anton Bauer battery system) and blow COOL AIR into the empty R5 battery compartment from a cooling fan to remove heat that way!

SOMEONE will soon enough figure out the BEST WAY to keep the R5 cool! Again, those multiple flexible blue-gel-based cooling pads bought from your local Dollar Store that have been kept in an ice cooler for a few hours and applied/wrapped about the bottom and back of the R5 camera within a thin cloth sack SHOULD ALSO do the trick. Just swap the cooling gel pads out with newly cold ones when they start getting excessively warm. That's the cheapest solution at about $25 US for multiple gel-based cooling pads!

V

Apparently the heat doesn't even get from the inside of the camera, to its surface, except very slowly. So putting a bunch of cooling on the surface won't do any good. Something needs to be done inside the camera to get the heat to the surface of the camera (apparently the bottom plate is the most likely place).
 

HarryFilm

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2016
718
171
Apparently the heat doesn't even get from the inside of the camera, to its surface, except very slowly. So putting a bunch of cooling on the surface won't do any good. Something needs to be done inside the camera to get the heat to the surface of the camera (apparently the bottom plate is the most likely place).

The battery compartment should work best then! Somebody can always put in a radiator unit inside of a DUMMY BATTERY and wick away heat through the magnesium interior body compartment. All you need is a 5 to 10 degrees Celcius temperature differential ANYWHERE on the camera body to start wicking away heat at enough of a rate that even with that outer grippy covering, the heat will MOVE FAST ENOUGH that overheating may no longer be an issue.

It SOUNDS LIKE THEN, someone could install a tiny fan and copper heat sink INSIDE the battery compartment (i.e. and NOT short the battery leads!) using the insides of a dummy battery assembly to wick away heat. Maybe even use a tiny water block assembly inside of a dummy battery to move heat OUT of the battery compartment by forced capillary action! Again, so long there's at AT LEAST five to 10 degrees celcius difference, the heat will start moving QUICKLY through the camera to the coolest parts!

ANOTHER OPTION is for Canon or SIGMA to make a CUSTOM Battery Grip that already has a full built-in radiator fan/liquid cooling/cappilary action cooling system assembly built-in! If the temperature difference is increased to around 15 degrees celcius within the battery grip, then the laws of thermodynamics applies and heat WILL ABSOLUTELY MOVE from the camera to the grip no matter what!

V
 

SteveC

R5
CR Pro
Sep 3, 2019
2,481
2,346
The battery compartment should work best then! Somebody can always put in a radiator unit inside of a DUMMY BATTERY and wick away heat through the magnesium interior body compartment. All you need is a 5 to 10 degrees Celcius temperature differential ANYWHERE on the camera body to start wicking away heat at enough of a rate that even with that outer grippy covering, the heat will MOVE FAST ENOUGH that overheating may no longer be an issue.

It SOUNDS LIKE THEN, someone could install a tiny fan and copper heat sink INSIDE the battery compartment (i.e. and NOT short the battery leads!) using the insides of a dummy battery assembly to wick away heat. Maybe even use a tiny water block assembly inside of a dummy battery to move heat OUT of the battery compartment by forced capillary action! Again, so long there's at AT LEAST five to 10 degrees celcius difference, the heat will start moving QUICKLY through the camera to the coolest parts!

ANOTHER OPTION is for Canon or SIGMA to make a CUSTOM Battery Grip that already has a full built-in radiator fan/liquid cooling/cappilary action cooling system assembly built-in! If the temperature difference is increased to around 15 degrees celcius within the battery grip, then the laws of thermodynamics applies and heat WILL ABSOLUTELY MOVE from the camera to the grip no matter what!

V

I did read a description of an anecdote that someone got it to cool much faster by removing the battery and card, and leaving the door open. Supposedly two minutes of cooling returned one minute of heating-affected video time. Whether that will actually turn out to be true in general is yet to be seen.
 
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SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
2,376
1,246
Apparently the heat doesn't even get from the inside of the camera, to its surface, except very slowly. So putting a bunch of cooling on the surface won't do any good. Something needs to be done inside the camera to get the heat to the surface of the camera (apparently the bottom plate is the most likely place).
i read that it took 2 hours for camera to cool down.. that is insane.. a large pot of boiling water takes faster to cool down to room temperatures than that. ...
not very probable..
I wonder if somehow temperature sensing algorithm is skewed or temperature sensor is not returning true values..? it just does not make any sense ..
 
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Mar 9, 2015
3
1
Depending on weather, that 4k120 can be really useful for recording behaviour of animals which lasts couple of seconds on another note living in India other than Dec-Jan dont see R5 being a useful tool in field for video above 4k30.
Totally Agree!!!. It might be impossible to shoot in summer with temperatures reading 45 degrees :)
 

Viggo

EOS R5
Dec 13, 2010
4,799
1,474
Are there more than one report about it shutting down or even warns about heat when shooting stills? I’m not really into video, but I’m often using my camera in pretty extreme warm or cold temperatures. I don’t want to keep bringing up the issue, but I think most will agree that overheating while shooting stills is unacceptable.
 
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koenkooi

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Feb 25, 2015
1,920
1,861
Are there more than one report about it shutting down or even warns about heat when shooting stills? I’m not really into video, but I’m often using my camera in pretty extreme warm or cold temperatures. I don’t want to keep bringing up the issue, but I think most will agree that overheating while shooting stills is unacceptable.

I've seen one report here from @NorskHest and one on fredmiranda. The fredmiranda one was about an 'old' LP-E6N (non-H) getting really hot and triggering the overheating warning. I'm leaning towards 'bad battery' on that one.
We're less than a week in from first delivery, so I don't think we can say anything either way yet, but 10000000000000000:2 ratio of video:stills overheating reports seems to be promising.