Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras [C
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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
Without auto focus points to match Sony and Eye-AF, for photographers its not worth it.
Give me something to really compete with Sony.
Without auto focus points to match Sony and Eye-AF, for photographers its not worth it.
Give me something to really compete with Sony.
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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
Sorry, but Canon doesn't care about you...at all. They're selling more FF ILCs than Sony now, so in the only way that matters to the corporate bottom line, they're handily outcompeting Sony. Given that, for which 'photographers' are you speaking, and what fraction of the market does that group represent? Oh, you're speaking for yourself. Got it. That's about as relevant as lipstick on a pig.
Ps. How do you like your Sony FF MILC? You do have one, right? I sure hope you aren't still using a pathetic, not-worth-it-to-photographers Canon dSLR.
Inspired said:
Sorry, but Canon doesn't care about you...at all. They're selling more FF ILCs than Sony now, so in the only way that matters to the corporate bottom line, they're handily outcompeting Sony. Given that, for which 'photographers' are you speaking, and what fraction of the market does that group represent? Oh, you're speaking for yourself. Got it. That's about as relevant as lipstick on a pig.
Ps. How do you like your Sony FF MILC? You do have one, right? I sure hope you aren't still using a pathetic, not-worth-it-to-photographers Canon dSLR.
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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
I can't imagine AF points being the make or break issue for switching teams. So much more to a camera system then something less than major like that.
neuroanatomist said:
I can't imagine AF points being the make or break issue for switching teams. So much more to a camera system then something less than major like that.
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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
People who talk like this.....
.... know S____ about Sony FF MILCs, and certainly don't do anything taxing with autofocus.
The Sony autofocus system is composed of two parts: PDAF and Contrast Detection. PDAF works just like the DSLR; Contrast Detection even with fast f/1.4 native lenses works just like a T2i in live view, or about equivalent to the joke that is Nikon in live view autofocus.
The PDAF boundaries are quite restrictive. It looks like this (the photo is from an A7R2, but the A7R3's PDAF area is identical):
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/I8ozso4EY8o/maxresdefault.jpg
You can turn it on yourself by going to the AF4 menu, and enabling "Phase Detect Area".
The reason it's called "Hybrid Autofocus" is that when an object moves beyond that center rectangle, it shifts to Contrast Detect autofocus. If you own a Sony, select single point AF and try it just within the PDAF area; then try it on the point immediately outside the PDAF area, and you'll see a MASSIVE difference, as in autofocus that works, and autofocus that hunts 5 times to acquire lock.
But Sony Hybrid Autofocus is actually MUCH MORE MESSED UP.
Everything that I explained above is for AF-C (continuous). In AF-S (one shot), the camera, at least with several very important lenses like 70-200/2.8, 85/1.4, and 85/1.8 the freaking camera is always in contrast detect mode.
Evidently, this is because some of the fancy features like magnification autofocus only work in contrast detect mode; but to make it explainable, they paired those features to AF-S, and explain that the features only work in AF-S -- without regard to the fact that some times, photographers don't want continuous autofocus.
And now, moving to adapted lenses, since people seem to sing songs of praise about these.
If you use an adapted lens, like a Canon 70-200/2.8, with the Metabones V, in Green (basic) mode, you'll be in PDAF most of the time, with many of the advanced autofocus features (like subject tracking or expanded points) disabled. If you switch it to Advanced mode, those features are selectable, but the camera will be in Contrast Detect, all of the time!
Note that anyone who sings songs of praise about the Metabones V must be smoking something really good. The Sigma MC-11 is way better at autofocus in that it doesn't hunt nearly as much, and that's trying 15+ Canon and Sigma lenses. As a bonus, there are several Sigma lenses (when using the Sigma adapter) that get all the features of native Sony lenses other than in camera profiles, and work very well.
There are some other really bizarre design choices too, but it's just too long to get into. Soooooo... TLDR?
The entire autofocus system feels like a beta product when compared to Canon or Nikon, where you pick up the camera and just concentrate on taking photos.
neuroanatomist said:
People who talk like this.....
.... know S____ about Sony FF MILCs, and certainly don't do anything taxing with autofocus.
The Sony autofocus system is composed of two parts: PDAF and Contrast Detection. PDAF works just like the DSLR; Contrast Detection even with fast f/1.4 native lenses works just like a T2i in live view, or about equivalent to the joke that is Nikon in live view autofocus.
The PDAF boundaries are quite restrictive. It looks like this (the photo is from an A7R2, but the A7R3's PDAF area is identical):
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/I8ozso4EY8o/maxresdefault.jpg
You can turn it on yourself by going to the AF4 menu, and enabling "Phase Detect Area".
The reason it's called "Hybrid Autofocus" is that when an object moves beyond that center rectangle, it shifts to Contrast Detect autofocus. If you own a Sony, select single point AF and try it just within the PDAF area; then try it on the point immediately outside the PDAF area, and you'll see a MASSIVE difference, as in autofocus that works, and autofocus that hunts 5 times to acquire lock.
But Sony Hybrid Autofocus is actually MUCH MORE MESSED UP.
Everything that I explained above is for AF-C (continuous). In AF-S (one shot), the camera, at least with several very important lenses like 70-200/2.8, 85/1.4, and 85/1.8 the freaking camera is always in contrast detect mode.
Evidently, this is because some of the fancy features like magnification autofocus only work in contrast detect mode; but to make it explainable, they paired those features to AF-S, and explain that the features only work in AF-S -- without regard to the fact that some times, photographers don't want continuous autofocus.
And now, moving to adapted lenses, since people seem to sing songs of praise about these.
If you use an adapted lens, like a Canon 70-200/2.8, with the Metabones V, in Green (basic) mode, you'll be in PDAF most of the time, with many of the advanced autofocus features (like subject tracking or expanded points) disabled. If you switch it to Advanced mode, those features are selectable, but the camera will be in Contrast Detect, all of the time!
Note that anyone who sings songs of praise about the Metabones V must be smoking something really good. The Sigma MC-11 is way better at autofocus in that it doesn't hunt nearly as much, and that's trying 15+ Canon and Sigma lenses. As a bonus, there are several Sigma lenses (when using the Sigma adapter) that get all the features of native Sony lenses other than in camera profiles, and work very well.
There are some other really bizarre design choices too, but it's just too long to get into. Soooooo... TLDR?
The entire autofocus system feels like a beta product when compared to Canon or Nikon, where you pick up the camera and just concentrate on taking photos.
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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
Option for C-log 1,2,& 3 with DCI 4k at 60p on duel SD cards...
Sounds pretty sketchy to me.
Option for C-log 1,2,& 3 with DCI 4k at 60p on duel SD cards...
Sounds pretty sketchy to me.
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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
So true.
And yet we will have another 10 pages of comments from folks who will act as if it is true and either shows that Canon sucks or are making the camera they want.
Don Haines said:
So true.
And yet we will have another 10 pages of comments from folks who will act as if it is true and either shows that Canon sucks or are making the camera they want.
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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
OTOH, CR guy is really good with rumors! Few CR1's turn out to be totally junk, and very few CR2 don't pan out.
dak723 said:
OTOH, CR guy is really good with rumors! Few CR1's turn out to be totally junk, and very few CR2 don't pan out.
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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
Yes, but this is a rumor about a prototype. I believe that many months ago their was a rumor that there were 2 or 3 different prototypes under development. So, even if true, there may be a 1 out if 3 chance that this prototype will be the one that eventually turns into a real camera. And even then a prototype is not the final camera and it's specs will change.
Of course, none of that matters to forum dwellers, does it! ;D
Talys said:
Yes, but this is a rumor about a prototype. I believe that many months ago their was a rumor that there were 2 or 3 different prototypes under development. So, even if true, there may be a 1 out if 3 chance that this prototype will be the one that eventually turns into a real camera. And even then a prototype is not the final camera and it's specs will change.
Of course, none of that matters to forum dwellers, does it! ;D
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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
Exactly.... a prototype
I work in a research lab, and of all the prototypes that I have worked on over the years, a grand total of 0 have made it into production.... Prototypes are to learn on, to test concepts, or test sub-assemblies....., they are not the final product.
dak723 said:
Exactly.... a prototype
I work in a research lab, and of all the prototypes that I have worked on over the years, a grand total of 0 have made it into production.... Prototypes are to learn on, to test concepts, or test sub-assemblies....., they are not the final product.
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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
===
Chiming in here....I think I will say....I TOLD YOU SO! ...my rumour mill seems to be correct and my Canon Smartphone with the combined large 7D mk2 sensor and Android OS will be shown as ALSO being correct. Keep reading for further confirmations!
And yes we have Sony AND Canon gear! Lots of it...!!!
neuroanatomist said:
===
Chiming in here....I think I will say....I TOLD YOU SO! ...my rumour mill seems to be correct and my Canon Smartphone with the combined large 7D mk2 sensor and Android OS will be shown as ALSO being correct. Keep reading for further confirmations!
And yes we have Sony AND Canon gear! Lots of it...!!!
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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
The AF system is the most important aspect of a camera system. Nobody cares what the DR is, megapixels, frame rate, lens selection, mount, size, or mirror(or less) technology behind a blurry picture. That's a big one, and if somebody can't get it right for the camera's market, they are doomed!
That said, having 87 bazillion AF points is very important for geeks and enthusiasts, but in the real world, most consumers leave it as centre point or shoot in the automatic mode.... and everyone out there selling cameras has that one right.....
slclick said:
The AF system is the most important aspect of a camera system. Nobody cares what the DR is, megapixels, frame rate, lens selection, mount, size, or mirror(or less) technology behind a blurry picture. That's a big one, and if somebody can't get it right for the camera's market, they are doomed!
That said, having 87 bazillion AF points is very important for geeks and enthusiasts, but in the real world, most consumers leave it as centre point or shoot in the automatic mode.... and everyone out there selling cameras has that one right.....
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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
Couldn't agree more.
Different people look for different things, though. For example, wildlife types highly value speed and accuracy, with high secondary points going to the ability to track.
Face identification, eye autofocus, subject tracking for video, low light autofocus, flash-assisted autofocus... everyone needs something different, right?
Don Haines said:
Couldn't agree more.
Different people look for different things, though. For example, wildlife types highly value speed and accuracy, with high secondary points going to the ability to track.
Face identification, eye autofocus, subject tracking for video, low light autofocus, flash-assisted autofocus... everyone needs something different, right?
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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
Yes, I'm sure your prediction of a physically impossible device is as accurate as all of your other predictions.
HarryFilm said:
Yes, I'm sure your prediction of a physically impossible device is as accurate as all of your other predictions.
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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
C-Log 1, 2 ... wait what?? No way. Pipe dream list. In no way is this list reality. Perhaps 1-2 things might wind up lucky shots, but these are C300 type video specs.
C-Log 1, 2 ... wait what?? No way. Pipe dream list. In no way is this list reality. Perhaps 1-2 things might wind up lucky shots, but these are C300 type video specs.
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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
I’d say the lenses are the most important part of a camera system. If you are referring to the camera itself as a system, it’s much harder. With digital cameras, none of it works without a power source (e.g. battery). Without a shutter mechanism (mechanical or otherwise), the thing is pretty useless. Same for the sensor/digitizer. The AF system is certainly important and maybe the biggest differentiator between bodies, but most important aspect? I don’t agree - it’s not even necessary for taking pictures.
I get what you are saying, though, and offer that a number of AF points is not the measure of AF capabilities. Owning both the 5Diii and 1Dx I know this first hand.
Don Haines said:
I’d say the lenses are the most important part of a camera system. If you are referring to the camera itself as a system, it’s much harder. With digital cameras, none of it works without a power source (e.g. battery). Without a shutter mechanism (mechanical or otherwise), the thing is pretty useless. Same for the sensor/digitizer. The AF system is certainly important and maybe the biggest differentiator between bodies, but most important aspect? I don’t agree - it’s not even necessary for taking pictures.
I get what you are saying, though, and offer that a number of AF points is not the measure of AF capabilities. Owning both the 5Diii and 1Dx I know this first hand.
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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
For me, I use the center point the most (by far). However, I'd love to be able to memorize, like, 4 other AF points and just cycle through them. Most often, the reason I pick another AF point is when I'm doing a portrait (I want the AF point to be near some feature, like an eye). But it happens with things like birds, too, because again, I'm trying to catch the head; or I've composed the bird a little off center on purpose.
Almost always, though, the alternate AF points are above the center and maybe a third to the right or left. It's never extremely far to the right/left, and it's practically never on the lower part of the viewfinder. If I could have just a few memorized, it would just be faster to pick the one I want, and compose/crop around that.
I get what you're saying about the lenses being very important, and in essence, I agree. However, without good autofocus, the number keepers is greatly diminished. The lenses also play a big role in the AF though, as crappy lenses are much less consistent in autofocus, and sometimes pretty slow. Again, it diminishes the nubmer of great shots -- or worse, give you a some shots that are amost amazing, if not for being slightly OOF
3kramd5 said:
For me, I use the center point the most (by far). However, I'd love to be able to memorize, like, 4 other AF points and just cycle through them. Most often, the reason I pick another AF point is when I'm doing a portrait (I want the AF point to be near some feature, like an eye). But it happens with things like birds, too, because again, I'm trying to catch the head; or I've composed the bird a little off center on purpose.
Almost always, though, the alternate AF points are above the center and maybe a third to the right or left. It's never extremely far to the right/left, and it's practically never on the lower part of the viewfinder. If I could have just a few memorized, it would just be faster to pick the one I want, and compose/crop around that.
I get what you're saying about the lenses being very important, and in essence, I agree. However, without good autofocus, the number keepers is greatly diminished. The lenses also play a big role in the AF though, as crappy lenses are much less consistent in autofocus, and sometimes pretty slow. Again, it diminishes the nubmer of great shots -- or worse, give you a some shots that are amost amazing, if not for being slightly OOF
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