Images of the Canon EOS M6 & EVF Have Leaked

[-pekr-]

and the specs are out:

Number of effective pixels: Approximately 24.2 million pixels
Video engine: DIGIC 7
AF point: 49 points
Sequential shooting: 7 frames / sec (AF fixed: 9 frames / sec)
ISO sensitivity: 100 to 25600
Shutter speed: 1 / 4000-30, synchronized with strobe = 1/200 second
Video: Full HD, HD, VGA
Liquid Crystal: 3.0 type tilt type touch panel
Size: 112.0 × 68.0 × 44.5 mm
Recording medium: SD / SDHC / SDXC card
Built-in Wi-Fi, Bluetooth
Color: Black / Silver


those specs are the same as the EOS-M5.

...

Just a question I can't easily answer to myself - if you would shoot identical scene with the G7X II and its 1.8-2.8 lens, and bigger sensor M6 but its typical 3.5 and above - which one would have better noise performance?

Lens has nothing to do with noise performance. Is your question - G7XII at low ISO vs EOS M5 or 6 at a higher ISO (due to the slower lens)?

So the difference of about 2/3 stop in light approx? Assuming f/2.8 lens vs a f/3.5 lens you would be going from say ISO 100 to 160 on the EOS M to compensate for the loss of light. A quite insignificant amount of noise difference there.

What is more significant is the difference in sensor size which will be noticeable at all ISO. The larger sensor of the EOS M will win. No competition (1inch vs APS-C)

I guess a valid question would be at what point does the IQ become comparable? For example does ISO 3200 on the M look like ISO 800 on the G7XII? I'm sure someone more scientific can answer that.

Yes, you got it right. Sorry for not being clear enough. Simply put - with faster lens, you can stay at lower ISO. Some of EF-M lens are 4.5-6.3, that's quite significant loss of light, no? It's cca two full stops, which might mean ISO 3200 vs ISO 800 on G7X II and its faster lens?

 

[AvTvM]

SIZE matters! i balkedxat M5 size and cludgy hump "pseudo SLR" form factor.

if M6 really has M5 innards, especially DPAF sensor - in smaller M3 form factor ... and if there is no nerfing/crippling, it may well replace my 1st gen EOS M.

i never record video, so don't care at all for the constant 4k whining, happy i will not have to pay for it.

if there is a decent kit offer: M6 + EVF + 18-150 ... also in Europe, not only in Japan, it may be my first Canon purchase after 2 years of boycotting them.

PS: of course the all-black version for me and not that silver-plastic retro design for me.

 

[noncho]

It reminds me of Samsung NX500... with less options and 2 years later.

 

[AvTvM]

It reminds me of Samsung NX500... with less options and 2 years later.

just one little difference: samsung NX has gone out of existence 2 years ago. Meanwhile Canon EOS M line is now shifting from 1st gear to second and the gearbox will eventually go to 7. the best is yet to come.

i'd be quite angry had i purchased a Samsung NX500 or NX1 ... feeling must be rather "high and dry" ... ;-)

 

[AvTvM]

bzw: i am a bit disappointed with CR guy re. M6 news ... definitely late to the party! no images, no specs, no confirmation whether it is DPAF sensor, no pricing ... no good sources it seems!

 

[-pekr-]

SIZE matters! i balkedxat M5 size and cludgy hump "pseudo SLR" form factor.

if M6 really has M5 innards, especially DPAF sensor - in smaller M3 form factor ... and if there is no nerfing/crippling, it may well replace my 1st gen EOS M.

i never record video, so don't care at all for the constant 4k whining, happy i will not have to pay for it.

if there is a decent kit offer: M6 + EVF + 18-150 ... also in Europe, not only in Japan, it may be my first Canon purchase after 2 years of boycotting them.

PS: of course the all-black version for me and not that silver-plastic retro design for me.

How do you know it's plastic? I hope for a brushed alluminium, but most probably I am too naive Hope it at least does not feel cheap!

 

[Zv]

and the specs are out:

Number of effective pixels: Approximately 24.2 million pixels
Video engine: DIGIC 7
AF point: 49 points
Sequential shooting: 7 frames / sec (AF fixed: 9 frames / sec)
ISO sensitivity: 100 to 25600
Shutter speed: 1 / 4000-30, synchronized with strobe = 1/200 second
Video: Full HD, HD, VGA
Liquid Crystal: 3.0 type tilt type touch panel
Size: 112.0 × 68.0 × 44.5 mm
Recording medium: SD / SDHC / SDXC card
Built-in Wi-Fi, Bluetooth
Color: Black / Silver


those specs are the same as the EOS-M5.

...

Just a question I can't easily answer to myself - if you would shoot identical scene with the G7X II and its 1.8-2.8 lens, and bigger sensor M6 but its typical 3.5 and above - which one would have better noise performance?

Lens has nothing to do with noise performance. Is your question - G7XII at low ISO vs EOS M5 or 6 at a higher ISO (due to the slower lens)?

So the difference of about 2/3 stop in light approx? Assuming f/2.8 lens vs a f/3.5 lens you would be going from say ISO 100 to 160 on the EOS M to compensate for the loss of light. A quite insignificant amount of noise difference there.

What is more significant is the difference in sensor size which will be noticeable at all ISO. The larger sensor of the EOS M will win. No competition (1inch vs APS-C)

I guess a valid question would be at what point does the IQ become comparable? For example does ISO 3200 on the M look like ISO 800 on the G7XII? I'm sure someone more scientific can answer that.

Yes, you got it right. Sorry for not being clear enough. Simply put - with faster lens, you can stay at lower ISO. Some of EF-M lens are 4.5-6.3, that's quite significant loss of light, no? It's cca two full stops, which might mean ISO 3200 vs ISO 800 on G7X II and its faster lens?

Yeah I guess though bear in mind the G7XII has a fixed lens, and while it may be f/2.8 at the long end it's still limited at 100mm (35mm equivalent). The EOS M with the 55-200 lens would be around f/4.5 at that focal length. So like a 1.3 stop difference. 2 stops if using the slower 18-150 (I assume it's f/5.6 at 65mm) so yeah you're right about that.

However, the EOS being an interchangeable lens body gives you the chance to potentially use faster lenses (adapted or native yet to come). There's also manual lens options from Samyang / Rokinon. This is where the M comes into it's own. The ability to use specialized lenses. Good for landscape stuff. If you're just out to get pics of the cat maybe the G7 is a better option!

Also, I reckon you could do a lot more with the RAW files from the M vs the G7XII. The added flexibility would be useful if you do a lot of editing.

I definitely agree that a fast tele prime option is needed for the M line though.

 

[LDS]

It's a matter of glass "hand cuffs" from 800 prime to STM's for fun stuff.

That's another reason. "I buy Canon because I own several lenses I can use" is different than "I buy Canon because there's written Canon and I'm loyal".

I'm interested in the M5. I don't work in a camera shop , don't like to trade, so I have to be careful in what I spend my money. I would like a smaller camera, and I would like something with a mostly common UI with my actual DSLR, and an EVF. Being able to use remotes, flashes and lenses I already own is another reason. I liked the Fujis, but didn't want to invest in a wholly different, still expensive, system. I'm not interested in video - what stopped me to buy it is the M lenses lineup. I've no reason to buy something which doesn't fulfill my needs, so I simply wait.

If the company is going to go mirrorless - why putz around - for years.???
That's just stupid program management.

When you're the incontestable leader of the DSLR market, you find yourself in a difficult position. They invested in R&D and production lines for the actual products - and probably expect a given ROI. Introduce new products that cannibalize sales of some products of yours, and not only competitors, and it can impact your revenues. Nor you can easily dump models that sell well, and replace them with other that may sell less - for example I'm in that market segment who won't buy a camera without an OVF/EVF.

There could be also other needs - i.e. reusing existing components and technologies to reduce costs (a reduction that might be not passed to the customer, of course...)

IMHO they are trying to position the M line so it doesn't damage other lines. When you're less successful, it's easier to be more aggressive, you have less to lose.

 

[okaro]

The difference in sensor size between one inch and APS-C is equivalent to 1.5 stops in performance. As a factor this is 1.69. So f/1.8 is roughly comparable to f/3.0 on the larger sensor. However if low light performance is really an issue and one wants slightly longer focal lengths then one should get for example the 50 mm f/1.8. It has a 28 mm aperture compared to max 13 mm on G7X mark II. Larger hole, more light, better image. Even if you crop you'll get 15 megapixels, more than enough with high ISO.

 

[Zv]

The difference in sensor size between one inch and APS-C is equivalent to 1.5 stops in performance. As a factor this is 1.69. So f/1.8 is roughly comparable to f/3.0 on the larger sensor. However if low light performance is really an issue and one wants slightly longer focal lengths then one should get for example the 50 mm f/1.8. It has a 28 mm aperture compared to max 13 mm on G7X mark II. Larger hole, more light, better image. Even if you crop you'll get 15 megapixels, more than enough with high ISO.

Thanks!

So I guess the EF-M 15-45 f/3.5 - 6.3 is kinda close to the one on the G7XII, only not as long. Would've been nice to see a 15-65 or 15-85 f/4 constant for the EF-M. I doubt we'd ever see an f/2.8 zoom for it and even if we did what would be the price of something like that I wonder?

 

[okaro]

If the specs of the M6 are essentially the same as those of the M5, then I guess that's good, but I'm a little confused now:

Why would Canon, within 4 or 5 months, release 2 cameras essentially the same, but with slightly different form factors? The M5 and M6 are not HUGELY different in size. And as someone else said, by the time you've paid for the (sexy) EVF-DC2, they're probably not far apart in price either.

If you plan to use a viewfinder you should get the M5. For many the size and the price are deal breakers.

Are they REALLY just releasing the same camera in 2 forms, just to cater for different people's style/ergonomic tastes?

Also, I'm a little (tiny bit) annoyed, because I was all set to buy the M5, but now I'm less sure, and may wait for the release and reviews of the M6.

Still, better that the M6 comes out BEFORE I buy, than immediately AFTER, I suppose!

If ergonomics and size were irrelevant there would be little need to release any mirrorless cameras. I think it is just good that the viewfinder is the only difference. It would be confusing if M6 was in some aspects better than M5.

I just got an offer from Canon for EOS M3 and the 15-45 mm for 518 €. They need to sell the old storages. Just a little time ago I was considering buying it for 599 €. Now I'll wait.

 

[koenkooi]

if M6 really has M5 innards, especially DPAF sensor - in smaller M3 form factor ... and if there is no nerfing/crippling, it may well replace my 1st gen EOS M.

The biggest nerfing/crippling IMO is using a powershot firmware and I bet that won't get fixed, ever

 

[noncho]

It reminds me of Samsung NX500... with less options and 2 years later.

just one little difference: samsung NX has gone out of existence 2 years ago. Meanwhile Canon EOS M line is now shifting from 1st gear to second and the gearbox will eventually go to 7. the best is yet to come.

i'd be quite angry had i purchased a Samsung NX500 or NX1 ... feeling must be rather "high and dry" ... ;-)

Nope.
I'm quite happy with it, because it's a capable camera and have many great native lenses. And I'm using it instead of waiting few more years for such lenses from Canon. And of course we won't see interesting native lenses like 85 1.4 for M.

I had M with 3 lenses. Maybe 5 years after the quit of NX line I'll come back for M6 mk II, as the design seems fine

 

[1kind]

Re: Canon EOS M6 & EVF Images Have Leaked

I wonder if the old electronic viewfinder will work with the new camera. It seems wasteful to buy a new EVF when the old one works just fine.

I'm sure it will work. Seems like the only difference is design and that the new DC2 is fixed. The DC1 allows you to tilt it.

 

[AvTvM]

Re: Canon EOS M6 & EVF Images Have Leaked

I wonder if the old electronic viewfinder will work with the new camera. It seems wasteful to buy a new EVF when the old one works just fine.

I'm sure it will work. Seems like the only difference is design and that the new DV2 is fixed. The DV1 allows you to tilt it.

not sure. need to see a clean image of the connector/pins on dv2 and m6 hotshoe first. i'd not be surorused if canon would have changed something to make dv1 incompatible ...

 

[1kind]

Re: Canon EOS M6 & EVF Images Have Leaked

I wonder if the old electronic viewfinder will work with the new camera. It seems wasteful to buy a new EVF when the old one works just fine.

I'm sure it will work. Seems like the only difference is design and that the new DV2 is fixed. The DV1 allows you to tilt it.

not sure. need to see a clean image of the connector/pins on dv2 and m6 hotshoe first. i'd not be surorused if canon would have changed something to make dv1 incompatible ...

I don't think Canon would go that extreme and change pins and connectors. Plus, what if someone wants the M6 but wants a tilting EVF? They can buy the DC1. Just more options for photographers and more money for Canon.

Don't forget, the EVF-DC1 also works with the G3 X, G1 X Mark II. So having the DC2 work only for the M6 doesn't make sense.

 

[AvTvM]

dc1 may work on m6. dc2 will probably not work on older cams though, since it is/should be higher rez!?

 

[1kind]

dc1 may work on m6. dc2 will probably not work on older cams though, since it is/should be higher rez!?

I won't think the resolution of the EVF has to do with how old the cameras are. Unless it has to do with power output but I'm sure that the EVF doesn't require that much power.

We'll find out soon.

 

[AvTvM]

dc1 may work on m6. dc2 will probably not work on older cams though, since it is/should be higher rez!?

I won't think the resolution of the EVF has to do with how old the cameras are. Unless it has to do with power output but I'm sure that the EVF doesn't require that much power.

We'll find out soon.

yes, roght now we can only speculate. if dc2 is higher rez, the plder cams may not be able to deliver the video feed for it (bandwidth, digic power, ...)?

 

[rrcphoto]

dc1 may work on m6. dc2 will probably not work on older cams though, since it is/should be higher rez!?

i doubt it. I think the DC2 seems to be telescopic, which means it can slide out from the camera body when in use, or smaller when you want to tilt the screen up.

it also doesn't seem to be articulating.

I really doubt it's any more res than the already good 2.36m dot EVF the DC1 has.

also there's no way in hell it has a higher specced EVF than the M5.