More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

[V8Beast]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

But once again...utter silence about read noise and dynamic range. This is, clearly, a Low ISO part from Canon. If they had resolved their low ISO read noise issues...one would think they would be proclaiming it to the heavens. Why the silence? :\

Probably because Canon hasn't officially announced anything yet Other than a small percentage of forum dwellers, if Canon bragged about reduced read noise, who would even understand what they're talking about?

That said, I too find it a bit peculiar that everyone is so seduced by the megapixel count of this machine that the whole DR issue has flown under the radar thus far. I didn't think we'd ever see that day on Canon Rumors ;D

Hell, both dilbert and psolberg responded in the other thread, and the discussion still hasn't devolved into a DR pissing match

 

[Perio]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

Guys, please pardon my ignorance but I'd like to clarify the ISO question. If Canon 5ds has Sony sensor and let's say you shoot at ISO 3200, would you be able to push shadows 1-2 stops in post-processing like for D810? In this case, would ISO 3200 be kind of equivalent to ISO 6400-12800? Sorry for my very naive description of what I wanted to ask.

Another question is, do you guys think there's any chance 5Ds would come with integrated non-detachable grip, like 1D series?

Thanks!

 

[Lee Jay]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

Guys, please pardon my ignorance but I'd like to clarify the ISO question. If Canon 5ds has Sony sensor and let's say you shoot at ISO 3200, would you be able to push shadows 1-2 stops in post-processing like for D810? In this case, would ISO 3200 be kind of equivalent to ISO 6400-12800? Sorry for my very naive description of what I wanted to ask.

Pushing doesn't just push the shadows, it pushes everything. Canon sensors are already as good as the rest once you're at ISO 400-800 and above so no difference there.

Another question is, do you guys think there's any chance 5Ds would come with integrated non-detachable grip, like 1D series?

I sure hope not, and I doubt it.

 

[PhotographyFirst]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

Guys, please pardon my ignorance but I'd like to clarify the ISO question. If Canon 5ds has Sony sensor and let's say you shoot at ISO 3200, would you be able to push shadows 1-2 stops in post-processing like for D810? In this case, would ISO 3200 be kind of equivalent to ISO 6400-12800? Sorry for my very naive description of what I wanted to ask.

Another question is, do you guys think there's any chance 5Ds would come with integrated non-detachable grip, like 1D series?

Thanks!

The true native ISO range of the D800 is 100-1600. The "native" ISO range up to 6400 is actually not native ISO and is a lie by Nikon to an extent. In practice, the rear noise is so clean, they could push it to ISO 12,800 from ISO 1600 and still have nice images.

If Canon's 5Ds is truly native to ISO 6400, AND they reduced the read noise, then it should be pretty good at ISO 12,800.

On a side note, it is worth mentioning that 50+MP means we are seeing the different color channels of the Bayer array actually begin to reach much better levels. The 20-22 MP sensors only produce a fraction of that resolution in the Red color channel.

 

[LukasS]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

Another question is, do you guys think there's any chance 5Ds would come with integrated non-detachable grip, like 1D series?

They might, considering doubling pixel count (i think) would result in more energy consumption.

 

[lintoni]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

But once again...utter silence about read noise and dynamic range. This is, clearly, a Low ISO part from Canon. If they had resolved their low ISO read noise issues...one would think they would be proclaiming it to the heavens. Why the silence? :\

Probably because Canon hasn't officially announced anything yet Other than a small percentage of forum dwellers, if Canon bragged about reduced read noise, who would even understand what they're talking about?

That said, I too find it a bit peculiar that everyone is so seduced by the megapixel count of this machine that the whole DR issue has flown under the radar thus far. I didn't think we'd ever see that day on Canon Rumors ;D

Hell, both dilbert and psolberg responded in the other thread, and the discussion still hasn't devolved into a DR pissing match

Because the camera(s) are yet to be released? Because nobody has seen any images from the camera(s)?

 

[davidcl0nel]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

As a landscape/cityscape-photographer... I would like to have ISO 10 (yes ten!) much more than ISO 100.000 ...

 

[PhotographyFirst]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

As a landscape/cityscape-photographer... I would like to have ISO 10 (yes ten!) much more than ISO 100.000 ...

You can put filters on a camera for that effect mostly. It's kinda hard to put filters on that increase ISO sensitivity.

Nighttime landscape photography is pretty big these days. It's no longer valid to put "landscapes" and "low ISO" in the same exclusive category. Landscapers are using every ISO from 100-12,800 these days. That's just a solid fact.

 

[Marsu42]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

On a side note, it is worth mentioning that 50+MP means we are seeing the different color channels of the Bayer array actually begin to reach much better levels. The 20-22 MP sensors only produce a fraction of that resolution in the Red color channel.

Ugh? Not saying that you're wrong, but if the 50mp sensor is (more or less) an upscaled crop, you're stating tat a crop sensor has better red resolution? I ask because at least with my 60d, I see the exact reverse effect vs. 6d.

 

[davidcl0nel]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

You can put filters on a camera for that effect mostly.

Sure...

And I can use an external intervalometer or bulb meter. (30sek is crap!!, why this limit, its only software)
But if its in the main firmware (I often use these features with ML! Its great.), why not?
Same with Lowest ISO. You don't have to use it, but it can help.

 

[Marsu42]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

But once again...utter silence about read noise and dynamic range. This is, clearly, a Low ISO part from Canon. If they had resolved their low ISO read noise issues...one would think they would be proclaiming it to the heavens. Why the silence? :\

Isn't it obvious? In an announcement, you mention the strengths (i.e. more metapixies) and not the status quo (good read noise on 6d) or weaknesses (less dr vs. exmor).

However, I still think that a high-res camera is made for settings with controlled light or situations when you can bracket anyway ... maybe they'll go for more dr on the 5d4, if they further advance on higher iso it'd be great for action photogs.

 

[V8Beast]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

But once again...utter silence about read noise and dynamic range. This is, clearly, a Low ISO part from Canon. If they had resolved their low ISO read noise issues...one would think they would be proclaiming it to the heavens. Why the silence? :\

Probably because Canon hasn't officially announced anything yet Other than a small percentage of forum dwellers, if Canon bragged about reduced read noise, who would even understand what they're talking about?

That said, I too find it a bit peculiar that everyone is so seduced by the megapixel count of this machine that the whole DR issue has flown under the radar thus far. I didn't think we'd ever see that day on Canon Rumors ;D

Hell, both dilbert and psolberg responded in the other thread, and the discussion still hasn't devolved into a DR pissing match

Because the camera(s) are yet to be released? Because nobody has seen any images from the camera(s)?

Since when has that stopped people from debating over DR?

 

[gmon750]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

I bought the Mark III back in July. I though Canon would stick to the 4-year upgrade cycle for this camera. I was about to drop some serious change for an underwater housing and now that is on hold until I see what the Mark IV has.

I'm not a fan of crazy-high megapixels if it detracts from the advantages of having bigger individual pixels to collect more light.

As a diver, I have to choose my gear carefully. Those housings get crazy expensive. I hope the 5DM4 has the same body/button layout then I would consider keeping my Mark III as well.

Crossing fingers to see what Canon comes up with!

 

[Mitch.Conner]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

I wonder if the narrow ISO range and high MP will mean Canon will finally come out with an image stabilized version of either the 24-70 f/2.8 or an f/2.8 version of the 24-105 IS L

 

[CaptureWhatYouSee]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

I am looking for a landscape and travel type of camera with these specs. But I want GPS, and I think most people would for such a camera. Not for a studio camera though....

 

[Lee Jay]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

I am looking for a landscape and travel type of camera with these specs. But I want GPS, and I think most people would for such a camera. Not for a studio camera though....

Do you have a smart phone, especially one that already has Google Maps on it? If so, you really don't even need GPS.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

So this is a camera optimized for low ISO performance. Canon is talking about stronger CFA and all of that....(which, given that for color depth above 24 bits is basically indiscernible to the human eye, is a total waste of time IMO. The only potential benefit MIGHT be lower color noise, if they are more finely restricting the colors through each CFA...but color noise would also be reduced if they would reduce their darn read noise.)

But once again...utter silence about read noise and dynamic range. This is, clearly, a Low ISO part from Canon. If they had resolved their low ISO read noise issues...one would think they would be proclaiming it to the heavens. Why the silence? :\

I don't want to lose the last little bit of hope I have in Canon...

The point you make about the read noise being an overriding factor is a good one and I agree.

Given that the information provided thus far about the camera is very preliminary, and we know nothing about the technology in the sensor, much less seen any actual images from this camera, there are "glass half-empty" and "glass half-full" viewpoints:

Pessimist view: Increased color discrimination in this camera will be largely useless because Canon didn't improve the low ISO read noise. Canon did it because all they can do is implement incremental, tangential improvements in their sensor technology, and cannot compete against Sony.

Optimist view: Increased color discrimination in this camera was implemented precisely because Canon improved the low ISO read noise hence making the existing CFA performance inadequate, especially in post processing losses in color fidelity when bumping shadows by several stops.

Which one will turn out to be the case is unknowable at this time. But the answer will most definitely determine the success of this camera.

I don't agree with that last point, except perhaps as it pertains to CR Forum members. I suspect that the majority of 5DIII/D8x0/a7R owners don't know what "CFA" stands for, and only know the difference between luminance and chrominance noise because there are separate sliders for them in Lightroom.

 

[PhotographyFirst]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

I am looking for a landscape and travel type of camera with these specs. But I want GPS, and I think most people would for such a camera. Not for a studio camera though....

The GPS cameras don't have maps or any type of guidance system. They just record your spot.

A dedicated GPS or smartphone is far more useful and you can use one of those super complex notepads and pencils to note which shots were taken where.

If there was every any feature that could be considered a gimick, it is the camera GPS. My 6D is pretty useless in that regard. The wifi on the other hand proves to be very helpful in some situations.

 

[PureClassA]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

I am looking for a landscape and travel type of camera with these specs. But I want GPS, and I think most people would for such a camera. Not for a studio camera though....

Do you have a smart phone, especially one that already has Google Maps on it? If so, you really don't even need GPS.

+1 I don't do lots of landscape, but I also don't understand this "gotta have it" obsession with built in GPS. I'm sure there are some folks who live and die by it, but I can't imagine it's so prolific a need that Canon just simply ignored it without good reason. I'll take 50MP and not whine an ounce about GPS. I've never used it or Wifi on my 6D. If I'm going to shoot to a computer for studio work, I'd prefer the hard line of a 15ft USB tether cable.

 

[Lee Jay]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

I am looking for a landscape and travel type of camera with these specs. But I want GPS, and I think most people would for such a camera. Not for a studio camera though....

The GPS cameras don't have maps or any type of guidance system. They just record your spot.

A dedicated GPS or smartphone is far more useful and you can use one of those super complex notepads and pencils to note which shots were taken where.

You don't need a notepad for that. Time sync your camera's images to accurate time and the GPS data recorded by the phone can be easily matched up. Lightroom has all the necessary feature for this.

Last trip I took a picture of my watch (which sync's itself to WWV every day) but a cell phone using the timeanddate website will work too. Then I adjusted all my pictures to that picture in Lightroom (it's one, simple operation). Then I downloaded the KMZ file of each day of my trip from Google's location history website. Then I used a free web site to change those into .gpx files which I loaded into the Lightroom Map module. Whamo! All my pictures are properly geocoded (well, except for those taken where there was no GPS or cell signal - I did those by hand).