New EOS-1 in 2014 [CR1]
- Thread starter Canon Rumors
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Having spent most of my athletic career in martial art, I like your metaphorGmwDarkroom said:
But I don´t see this as bringing "that" fight to the surface any more than stating that I would actually be happier buying a new 5DIV or 1DXI (or what they will call´em) if the massive improvement came in DR. I have previously stated that I want more resolution. I have the new Zeiss 55/1.4 ordered to confirm that. But I had a serious look through some raw-files the other day and I came to the conclusion that I´d rather have a 24MP sensor with significant DR improvement, than a 45MP sensor with the same DR.
PS! If I could buy both, I probably would
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He he, I waited for thatJ.R. said:
PS! I´m in a Lufthansa lounge in Munich with a long stop-over and nothing better to do than write meaningless posts on CR. Please continue
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Loswr
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J.R. said:neuroanatomist said:Orangutan said:
Jaguar makes cars that go 180 mph and have walnut interiors. What Jaguar doesn't make is a profit.
Jaguar Land Rover made a profit of over £1bn in the first half this year.
Fair enough…thanks! I guess I was thinking of the Ford-owned years… I wonder what would happen if Sony bought Nikon?
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unfocused
Photos/Photo Book Reviews: www.thecuriouseye.com
Woody said:
Or, it could be that the 5DIII is simply a better camera.
I know them's fight'n words to many on this forum, but maybe some folks just have to accept that you can't go checking off an arbitrary list of "features" and decide that whomever has the best "sensor score" wins.
The market has spoken and the undeniable fact is that many more buyers are choosing the 5DIII over the D800. Additionally, the market is consistently choosing Canon over any other brand regardless of the model.
Now, here's an inconvenient fact I've learned from a lifetime in my particular field. It's a well-documented fact that while individuals often make poor decisions, in the aggregate large groups of people tend to make very good decisions. If the marketplace is choosing the 5DIII over the D800 it's because it's a better camera. If the marketplace is consistently choosing Canon over other brands it's because they produce better cameras.
I'm not saying that because I'm some sort of a blind fanboy, I'm saying that because that's what the best evidence available shows.
(Now, I see that we've already fallen into the old car comparison saw. And, yes, the best selling cars may not always be the "best" cars. But, they may be the best car at a particular price point, which is what is relevant here.)
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Exactly. Same reasoning that Nikon's currently weak profitability has caused them to announce consolidation of camera lines to offer fewer products (in point and shoot lines) and focus on entry-level equipment (interchangable formats) to stengthen their financial situation:neuroanatomist said:
http://nikonrumors.com/2013/11/16/nikon-qa-low-inventory-high-profit-margins-cost-cutting-fewer-models.aspx/
Think the group of vocal Nikon enthusiasts asking for their D300s replacement will ever get it?
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unfocused said:
the old motto "eat shizzle, billions of flies cannot be wrong!" ;D
Or more tech-oriented ... "buy IBM computers", "buy Compaq notebooks", "buy Nokia cellphones", "buy Kodak film". Billions of units sold. To many millions or even billions of customers. Overwhelming market lead for some time ... UNTIL ... somebody else had better products and managed to spead the news. ;-)
Canon = has been sliding from 2009 onwards. Ever since Nikon managed to the D3/D300 double whammy. Then they lost it too. The slide has been accelerating over the last 2 years. Soon ... by bye .. down the toilet. Yesterdays market share will not save 'em.
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In all this praise of Canon success and Nikon failure, we should be aware though that our interests are best served if we have healthy competition. So, Sony, Nikon, Olympus and all the rest of you, please make life tough for Canon, so they have to stretch to please us!
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J.R. said:neuroanatomist said:Orangutan said:
Jaguar makes cars that go 180 mph and have walnut interiors. What Jaguar doesn't make is a profit.
Jaguar Land Rover made a profit of over £1bn in the first half this year.
Which they sell at Jaguar/Land Rover prices, not at Camry prices. Sure, any of the manufacturers could make killer DSLR's, but not at prices most of us could afford.
You choose your compromises based on your needs.
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How have they been sliding? Apparently not in market share or profitability relative to other manufacturers. How then?AvTvM said:
Maybe they blew most of their R&D budget on those and didn't have the capital to keep up the pace. I'm sure the recession didn't help.
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unfocused
Photos/Photo Book Reviews: www.thecuriouseye.com
Orangutan said:
Good points Orangutan. You are one smart ape.
Looks like a struck I nerve here.
As a matter of fact, to the flies it is the best meal.
As for AvTvM's other examples, they prove the point as well. When IBM made the best computers, they dominated the market. When they quit making the best computers, they no longer dominated the market.
At least we all agree that sales (more accurately overall profits and return on investment) are really the best assessment. The only point of disagreement seems to be an interpretation that somehow Canon is on a downward spiral.
I doubt if any evidence to the contrary, no matter how overwhelming it might be, will convince some folks otherwise.
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Loswr
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AvTvM said:
Your statements smell like that stuff those billions of flies eat.
You asked for hard numbers earlier. Now, about this there are hard numerical data. Those data show that you are totally wrong.
This was 2010:
This was 2011:
In 2013, Canon announced they have held the #1 market share worldwide in terms of volume within the interchangeable-lens digital camera market for the entire 10-year period from 2003 to 2012.
According to quarterly reports to date this year, Canon sales of dSLRs are dropping. But Nikon's sales of dSLRs are dropping much faster.
Show me the slide… :
: :
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neuroanatomist said:Fair enough…thanks! I guess I was thinking of the Ford-owned years… I wonder what would happen if Sony bought Nikon?
If Sony bought Nikon you'd be able to play Grand Theft Auto (or whatever the kids are into these days) on your camera's screen whilst waiting for the light to improve.
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Sales figures and profit margins means nothing for us consumers in itself, unless the company is about to go bankrupt or something.
Do you really want a camera from the manufacturer with highest market share? Do you want a camera from the company with highest profit margins? Or do you want the camera with best performance for your needs?
Why is Canon market leader? Because they make the best cameras? Or maybe because they have the best marketing? Best support? Maybe salesmen in photo shops have the biggest margins from selling Canon cameras? Maybe more people already have Canon lenses and thus limit themselves to Canon cameras?
To me these market share figures alone means nothing. I do however expect that Canon doesn't offer a 5D class camera with high resolution and DR opens up a nice market for the A7R and metabones adapters until Canon can come up with a response.
Do you really want a camera from the manufacturer with highest market share? Do you want a camera from the company with highest profit margins? Or do you want the camera with best performance for your needs?
Why is Canon market leader? Because they make the best cameras? Or maybe because they have the best marketing? Best support? Maybe salesmen in photo shops have the biggest margins from selling Canon cameras? Maybe more people already have Canon lenses and thus limit themselves to Canon cameras?
To me these market share figures alone means nothing. I do however expect that Canon doesn't offer a 5D class camera with high resolution and DR opens up a nice market for the A7R and metabones adapters until Canon can come up with a response.
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Loswr
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msm said:
I think you left out a letter - the letter 'H'.
"I do however expect that Canon doesn't offer a 5D class camera with high resolution and DR opens up a niche market for the A7R and metabones adapters until Canon can come up with a response."
msm said:
I want a camera with the best performance for my needs. The thing is, my needs aren't centered around high MP count or low ISO DR. Of course, there are people for whom more MP and/or more low ISO DR are critical. It's just that those people are in the minority. Understanding that fact, and the impact that fact has on Canon's R&D proirities, might help people who's needs diverge from Canon's priorities to make a decision about whether to stick with Canon or choose another brand of camera. Then again, they might just choose to complain about Canon not meeting their needs.
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Profits affect long-term R&D budgets, which affects the capacity to maintain a rich line of products. See the post about 2014 being the year of the lens. If that proves true, that R&D is funded out of profits.msm said:
Of course I want this; however, I realize that my needs are not exactly the same as everyone else's, and that the manufacturer will try to create a camera that will satisfy the most people. Of course I'd love Canon to make me a 5D3 with a D800 sensor at a 70D price, but they won't do it.
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neuroanatomist said:
I'm from Canada, and even though hockey isn't a favourite of mine I'll use a fact from that world: The Toronto Maple Leafs haven't won a Stanley Cup since 1967. They rarely get into the playoffs. They generally play decent to poorly. (I'm generalizing here, but on average, they are not that great a team).
Some would say, with this data, that the team needs a major overhaul. That alot of money should be spent on improving performance with the aim of bringing the cup back to Toronto.
But then you consider attendance: Leaf games are pretty much ALWAYS sold out. The moment tickets are available they are scooped up and the only tickets left are standing room. Add to this: Leaf tickets are among the most expensive tickets in the whole league.
So, what does this tell us? That despite piss poor performance, they are making a crap load of money. If tickets to their games are really expensive, and yet every game is sold out within minutes of going on sale, where does that leave things?
From their end, what is the motivation to improve? The team is making tons of money. Why should they spend more money to improve if it won't make them more money?
Canon is in a similar position IMHO. Their products mostly rule the market. Their products aren't bad, but they aren't leading edge, yet, they still make a ton of money.
Yes, if they went crazy with the spending and made every facet of their products better then anyone else they'd likely sell more. But if you add up the cost of doing that vs. the additional revenue do you think they'd be ahead?
Canon has a ton of really smart people, and that includes the money side. I GUARANTEE you that the money people have told the big wigs that it's not worth it. Why improve a product beyond the point where it'll make you more money?
Canon as a company isn't stupid. They've for the moment nailed the DSLR game perfectly. They introduce marginal improvements which are minimal in cost to them, just to keep going enough to fuel sales. They have the freedom to focus on areas that traditional DSLR users don't care too much about (live view focusing).
Personally I'm very happy with my Canon gear. While on paper the competition is "better", my personal experience is that it isn't better "enough" to warrant a switch. That's what Canon relies on. That's what Canon is successful with.
The market can change quickly, who's to say if this tactic will continue working much longer. I guess we'll see.
TTYL
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