Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

[Richard8971]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

I think you guys are forgetting something in your "thoughts" about future cameras.

The XXXXD is Canon's entry level DSLR now, so there is no reason for the Rebel class to be classed as an entry level DSLR anymore and the features seen on the new T4i equals some found on the 60D/7D and proves my point that Canon is moving that direction.

With canons new mirrorless entry soon and 4 APS-C cameras in the line up, there is going to be a lot of competition for sales.

The recent "downgrading" of the XXD line so as to NOT compete with the 7D makes me think that the merging of the XXD line and XD line is in the works. Again why would they downgrade the line just to bring it back as the flagship APS-C body and get rid of the XD line? The success of the 7D was extremely impressive so why wouldn't Canon run with it in the next upgrade to the Canon lineup?

The XXXXD line is the entry level
The XXXD line is the mid-level
The XD line is the flagship APS-C

That leaves room for a mirrorless interchangeable camera AND plenty of room for a entry level FF as well as a high performance APS-H. But Canon is going to do whatever they want to do and hopefully soon we will find out who is right and who is wrong.

Who cares what Nikon is doing. The recent features and price of the 5DIII and 1DX prove that Canon isn't "worried" about Nikon's cheap camera offerings. Also Nikon is going the route of high MP/low cost cameras and Canon is sticking with mostly 18MP offerings and a higher price. I think Canon is only worried about doing things their own thing right now.

D

 

[wickidwombat]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

or xxxxD disapear / become mirrorless APS-C

xxxD entry level DSLR

xxD or xD top level APS-C doesnt matter there can be only 1

if xxD is the top APS-C then they might get creative with the
xD and make it a Premium sports / wildlife body say maybe something along the lines of
a 1Dmk4 in a 5Dmk3 body

 

[Richard8971]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

or xxxxD disapear / become mirrorless APS-C

xxxD entry level DSLR

xxD or xD top level APS-C doesnt matter there can be only 1

if xxD is the top APS-C then they might get creative with the
xD and make it a Premium sports / wildlife body say maybe something along the lines of
a 1Dmk4 in a 5Dmk3 body

True... I would have to agree with this.

D

 

[Richard8971]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

I upgraded from a 50D to a 7D, because I felt the 60D wasn't an upgrade for my type of shooting.

When I had to upgrade from my 40D, the 60D wasn't even worth looking at in MO. I went straight for the 7!!!

D

 

[dlleno]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

I think the logical conclusion to what you are saying is that if you buy APS-C then you are locked into it for life?

Only if you buy EF-S lenses. However, many of us buy EF (L) lenses and those work on FF as well. The advantage of APS-C (and the prosumer/pro 7D) is that you can get a much longer reach.

The "reach" APS-C argument doesn't really belong in the same room with the EF-S lens compatibility argument. with the possible exception of the bargin zoom, 55-250 or whatever it is, the folks who want "reach" don't buy EF-S long lenses -- they buy long "L" glass, and after market FF compatible long lenses.

The only practical value to the EF-S compatibility argument is for the WA and UWAs -- the 10-22s and the 17-55s and the 15-85s -- where a significant investment has been already made, both in $ and in IQ, that cannot be utilized in FF. These folks have to either sell their EF-S lenses and re-invest, or keep the old APS-C body. If one has invested in long EF-S glass, that investment is not very sizable.

 

[Richard8971]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

I think everyone is forgetting that Canon APS-C, APS-H and full frame (35mm equivalent) sensors exist today for two reasons.

1) They correspond to existing film formats, making the switch from film to digital easier for those doing so. The logic behind Canon using these formats in digital sensors is clear.

2) The different sensors have different costs involved in production allowing Canon could offer budget minded entry level cameras ranging to the high performance professional cameras. APS-C sensors cost much less to produce than an equivalent MP full frame sensor!

Am I unhappy that the different formats exist? NO! They all offer something the other cannot. I use my 7D just as much as my 5DII! It all depends on what I want to shoot. I still throw my T1i (with my EF-s 60mm 2.8 macro) in my backpack when I want a throw-and-go camera that will consistently take awesome shots even though I have a sweet full frame 5DII to use whenever I need it! Now, I COULD throw my EF 100mm 2.8 macro on my 5DII, but the DOF (and sharpness, and ease of use) on the T1i/60mm is unmatched.

Now, will cameras exist one day that are all full frame? Maybe. Will Canon develop medium format digital sensors? That's very likely. There will be no end to the megapixel race as well as to the size of the sensor. (http://news.yahoo.com/supercameras-could-capture-never-seen-detail-171825569.html) For now, we have what we have.

D

 

[Richard8971]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

I think the logical conclusion to what you are saying is that if you buy APS-C then you are locked into it for life?

Only if you buy EF-S lenses. However, many of us buy EF (L) lenses and those work on FF as well. The advantage of APS-C (and the prosumer/pro 7D) is that you can get a much longer reach.

The "reach" APS-C argument doesn't really belong in the same room with the EF-S lens compatibility argument. with the possible exception of the bargin zoom, 55-250 or whatever it is, the folks who want "reach" don't buy EF-S long lenses -- they buy long "L" glass, and after market FF compatible long lenses.

The only practical value to the EF-S compatibility argument is for the WA and UWAs -- the 10-22s and the 17-55s and the 15-85s -- where a significant investment has been already made, both in $ and in IQ, that cannot be utilized in FF. These folks have to either sell their EF-S lenses and re-invest, or keep the old APS-C body. If one has invested in long EF-S glass, that investment is not very sizable.

Tell that to Canon, they keep making EF-s glass and some of it is expensive! I own some EF-s glass that I wouldn't trade for anything!

D

 

[briansquibb]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

I think the logical conclusion to what you are saying is that if you buy APS-C then you are locked into it for life?

Only if you buy EF-S lenses. However, many of us buy EF (L) lenses and those work on FF as well. The advantage of APS-C (and the prosumer/pro 7D) is that you can get a much longer reach.

The "reach" APS-C argument doesn't really belong in the same room with the EF-S lens compatibility argument. with the possible exception of the bargin zoom, 55-250 or whatever it is, the folks who want "reach" don't buy EF-S long lenses -- they buy long "L" glass, and after market FF compatible long lenses.

The only practical value to the EF-S compatibility argument is for the WA and UWAs -- the 10-22s and the 17-55s and the 15-85s -- where a significant investment has been already made, both in $ and in IQ, that cannot be utilized in FF. These folks have to either sell their EF-S lenses and re-invest, or keep the old APS-C body. If one has invested in long EF-S glass, that investment is not very sizable.

Tell that to Canon, they keep making EF-s glass and some of it is expensive! I own some EF-s glass that I wouldn't trade for anything!

D

What is being said is that for reach there is no EF-S glass

Even at the wide end AF glass is better for FF

It all boils down to how much you are prepared to spend on a camera system, the more specialist the more money.

There is a leap between the (relatively) cheap 7D and the ff bodies and the glass that is needed to support ff

 

[benhar]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

Stepping back slightly from what has been discussed, Canon urgently needs to provide an viable upgrade path for its current users. The Rebel DSLRs provided an affordable way for people such as myself to get interested in and then thoroughly addicted to digital photography. I have had my 550D for near on two years and while I still enjoy using it I am itching to upgrade. I am sure I am not alone.

The most frustrating aspects of my 550D are the poor low light performance, weak AF, low FPS and small buffer. Neither the 7D nor the 5Dmkii provide a complete solution to my needs. The 5Dmkiii does to an extent, but it is hard for me to justify spending that much money. A 7D with better lowlight would be perfect and if they released it tomorrow I would buy it tomorrow.

Right now everything between the 650D and the 5Dmkiii is just a bit tired and old. Whatever it does (7Dmkii, 70D, 6D...whatever) Canon needs to do something quickly because right now it just seems to be floundering.

 

[wickidwombat]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

Right now everything between the 650D and the 5Dmkiii is just a bit tired and old. Whatever it does (7Dmkii, 70D, 6D...whatever) Canon needs to do something quickly because right now it just seems to be floundering.

Very true however I think for your particular situation is that its unfortunate for you that the segment of the line where you are most interested in are in the trough of the wave cycle.

what strikes me as strange is how the 5Dmk3 and 650D released very close to each other so there must have been alot of concurrency in the design have ended up with new features in the 650D that are not in the 5Dmk3, or 1Dx.

Would AF in video in the 5Dmk3 made video people happier? perhaps some
quite likely it would have drawn more fire. touchscreen? personally i'm glad the 5Dmk3 didnt get one
but i'm sure many people would like it.

When looking at some of this stuff it makes the planning/ roadmap/ product range design seem quite hap hazard

so while I can see your frustration I guess you can console yourself that whatever gets announced in your area of interest it most likely will inherit some features that much higher end bodies dont have

this happened with the 7D too it got heaps of goodies that the 1D and 5D lines missed out on

 

[briansquibb]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

Stepping back slightly from what has been discussed, Canon urgently needs to provide an viable upgrade path for its current users. The Rebel DSLRs provided an affordable way for people such as myself to get interested in and then thoroughly addicted to digital photography. I have had my 550D for near on two years and while I still enjoy using it I am itching to upgrade. I am sure I am not alone.

The most frustrating aspects of my 550D are the poor low light performance, weak AF, low FPS and small buffer. Neither the 7D nor the 5Dmkii provide a complete solution to my needs. The 5Dmkiii does to an extent, but it is hard for me to justify spending that much money. A 7D with better lowlight would be perfect and if they released it tomorrow I would buy it tomorrow.

Right now everything between the 650D and the 5Dmkiii is just a bit tired and old. Whatever it does (7Dmkii, 70D, 6D...whatever) Canon needs to do something quickly because right now it just seems to be floundering.

They announced the 650D recently and there is a CR2 for 4 more cameras this year.

A used 1D3 might be a good option - has everything except large mps - and are going for the price of a 650D

 

[briansquibb]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

this happened with the 7D too it got heaps of goodies that the 1D and 5D lines missed out on

What the 1D missed out on cannot have been important as I haven't noticed it. The 1D4 was announced just after the 7D so I suspect it got everything

 

[wickidwombat]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

this happened with the 7D too it got heaps of goodies that the 1D and 5D lines missed out on

What the 1D missed out on cannot have been important as I haven't noticed it. The 1D4 was announced just after the 7D so I suspect it got everything

it didnt get a Mfn button or the snazy elctro VF thingo where you can turn on grid line and have the elctronic level, no built in flash commander. no IR trigger reciever

 

[briansquibb]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

this happened with the 7D too it got heaps of goodies that the 1D and 5D lines missed out on

What the 1D missed out on cannot have been important as I haven't noticed it. The 1D4 was announced just after the 7D so I suspect it got everything

it didnt get a Mfn button or the snazy elctro VF thingo where you can turn on grid line and have the elctronic level, no built in flash commander. no IR trigger reciever

I have never used those on the 7D : : :

I can see the benefit of the electronic level

 

[wickidwombat]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

just sayin

 

[briansquibb]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

just sayin

I tend to use the same controls on all the bodies so this little differences get ignored

My brain cant cope with the 'which camera am I using today' analysis ;D ;D ;D

 

[wickidwombat]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

just sayin

I tend to use the same controls on all the bodies so this little differences get ignored

My brain cant cope with the 'which camera am I using today' analysis ;D ;D ;D

yeah try the image review and zooming on any other camera and then swapping to the 5Dmk3 and back

drives one absolutely nuts i tell ya

 

[briansquibb]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

just sayin

I tend to use the same controls on all the bodies so this little differences get ignored

My brain cant cope with the 'which camera am I using today' analysis ;D ;D ;D

yeah try the image review and zooming on any other camera and then swapping to the 5Dmk3 and back

drives one absolutely nuts i tell ya

... and changing iso in flight.

1D4 is set for auto iso, my others aren't

IIRC the 5DIII is different again ???

 

[dlleno]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

I think the logical conclusion to what you are saying is that if you buy APS-C then you are locked into it for life?

Only if you buy EF-S lenses. However, many of us buy EF (L) lenses and those work on FF as well. The advantage of APS-C (and the prosumer/pro 7D) is that you can get a much longer reach.

The "reach" APS-C argument doesn't really belong in the same room with the EF-S lens compatibility argument. with the possible exception of the bargin zoom, 55-250 or whatever it is, the folks who want "reach" don't buy EF-S long lenses -- they buy long "L" glass, and after market FF compatible long lenses.

The only practical value to the EF-S compatibility argument is for the WA and UWAs -- the 10-22s and the 17-55s and the 15-85s -- where a significant investment has been already made, both in $ and in IQ, that cannot be utilized in FF. These folks have to either sell their EF-S lenses and re-invest, or keep the old APS-C body. If one has invested in long EF-S glass, that investment is not very sizable.

Tell that to Canon, they keep making EF-s glass and some of it is expensive! I own some EF-s glass that I wouldn't trade for anything!

D

aside from the three mentioned, what is your total investment in EF-S long glass? what long glass do you reach for when needed?

 

[Richard8971]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

aside from the three mentioned, what is your total investment in EF-S long glass? what long glass do you reach for when needed?

Who said my EF-s lenses were long reach? They make other EF-s lenses. If I choose to spend any amount of $$$ on ANY lens, regardless of EF or EF-s, you better believe I thought it out first and will use it until it dies!

D