Possibility of EOS M Announcement at CP+? [CR1]
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I want fast focusing and at least 10FPS in the next M. M, M2, and M3 all fall miserably short. If rumors are true the A6100 will probably still Canon's thunder (again) in the mirrorless world.
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Loswr
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AvTvM said:
What would convince you? Personally walking around and asking every resident of Japan what camera they bought? Athena and the Muses coming down from Olympus in Apollo's chariot to tell you?
See if a local college offers a course in statistics. I'd recommend not telling the professor you believe sampling 50% of a population is unconvincing, at least if you hope to achieve passing marks.
rrcphoto said:
It's sad that so many people believe their own opinions trump objective facts. Sad is the wrong word...pathetic is more appropriate.
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AvTvM said:
Why?
Anyone wanting a good full frame camera will get an SLR.
Mirrorless is meritless unless they figure out how to make performance and quality on par with an actual good camera.
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tcmatthews said:
The M + 22mm is pretty tough to beat if one is going for the ultimate, compact kit while still having a good size sensor. But other then that, the M line is pretty lacking. I did end up going Fuji for my compact kit and have been quite satisfied. Only complaint, is while the Fuji glass is pretty awesome optically, it can be quite pricey!
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AvTvM said:well, if one starts with a SUPERIOR product they can wait, until competition starts to catch up. Apparently that is what Sony has been able to do - rumor has it, that they delayed the A6000 update twice already during 2015 ... "for lack of competition". But now it seems to be coming. Sony Alpharumors quotes "availability in markets in March 2016".
This is interesting if true. It's the sort of behaviour that gets Canon a lot of stick round here. People jumping up and down and shouting 'but if they CAN do it, they MUST do it!' instead of looking at the underlying business decisions. I have mixed feelings myself, but it's refreshing to see another company fingered for it too.
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Luds34 said:
+1. I got the original M with the 22 f/2 and added the other EF-M lenses (and the M3) over time, but the 22 f/2 is used the most -- nearly half the time. I used it the most when my DSLR was being serviced. The Ms could be more responsive and the native lenses are slow, but it's an ultracompact kit. I also got them at good prices, so I don't mind leaving it in an unattended jacket, etc.
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davidmurray said:
I got a metabones IV EF - E T adapter for my A7II this week. Now all my Canon lenses work almost as good on the A7II as the 6D. The focus area is larger on the A7II. Other than tracking fast moving subjects ISO over 3200, and flash photography the A7II is just plain better. My 6D when in the box to Amazon along with the EOS M.
I will just use my 7D II for everything the A7II is not good at.
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scyrene said:AvTvM said:well, if one starts with a SUPERIOR product they can wait, until competition starts to catch up. Apparently that is what Sony has been able to do - rumor has it, that they delayed the A6000 update twice already during 2015 ... "for lack of competition". But now it seems to be coming. Sony Alpharumors quotes "availability in markets in March 2016".
This is interesting if true. It's the sort of behaviour that gets Canon a lot of stick round here. People jumping up and down and shouting 'but if they CAN do it, they MUST do it!' instead of looking at the underlying business decisions. I have mixed feelings myself, but it's refreshing to see another company fingered for it too.
If Sony had the a6100 ready to go, why wouldn't they just get it on sale and try to dominate that segment of the market and get users buying into their system (getting familiar with the system, buying lenses, etc)? Or another option might be, if the a6100 is a substantial upgrade from the a6000, release the a6100 at a higher price point (leaving the a6000 where it is) so Sony could take the extra mark up from the early adopters, and then when the competition heats up they cease selling the a6000 and drop the price on the a6000. From a business point of view, the idea Sony has had an a6100 ready to go but they haven't released it because of "lack of competition" seems very unlikely to me, at least if it's a substantial upgrade over the a6000.
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jd7 said:scyrene said:AvTvM said:well, if one starts with a SUPERIOR product they can wait, until competition starts to catch up. Apparently that is what Sony has been able to do - rumor has it, that they delayed the A6000 update twice already during 2015 ... "for lack of competition". But now it seems to be coming. Sony Alpharumors quotes "availability in markets in March 2016".
This is interesting if true. It's the sort of behaviour that gets Canon a lot of stick round here. People jumping up and down and shouting 'but if they CAN do it, they MUST do it!' instead of looking at the underlying business decisions. I have mixed feelings myself, but it's refreshing to see another company fingered for it too.
If Sony had the a6100 ready to go, why wouldn't they just get it on sale and try to dominate that segment of the market and get users buying into their system (getting familiar with the system, buying lenses, etc)? Or another option might be, if the a6100 is a substantial upgrade from the a6000, release the a6100 at a higher price point (leaving the a6000 where it is) so Sony could take the extra mark up from the early adopters, and then when the competition heats up they cease selling the a6000 and drop the price on the a6000. From a business point of view, the idea Sony has had an a6100 ready to go but they haven't released it because of "lack of competition" seems very unlikely to me, at least if it's a substantial upgrade over the a6000.
It is more likely the demand for the A7rII and A7sII were greater than expected. The a6000 is selling well so why not milk the video sells from the full frame sensors before releasing a 4K capable crop camera. Better to let is set in the oven longer and get the phase detection working with DSLR lenses and get other firmware issues sorted out. There is no competing product so no need to rush it out.
They need to get a better kit lens the power zoom sucks.
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tcmatthews said:
Are you saying that from experience having thoroughly tested all of your lenses? Or from a press release and forum hype? I've seen quite a few people expect what you've stated, only to be thoroughly disappointed. From my understanding (and I'm just parroting what I've read), it works well for some lenses, and it's literally unusable (ie, it doesn't work) for others. If you haven't tested it yet in the situations that you commonly use it in, I'd hold off on shipping that box to Amazon.
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tcmatthews said:
I have tried this route last year with an adapter to mate sony sensor with canon lenses. I eventually sold the a7 in a couple of months. Using an adapter occasionally is one thing. But if you plan on doing that every time it's a pain in the neck.
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sunnyVan said:
The A7II auto-focus is now way beyond what was in the A7. For my Canon 24f2.8 IS, 100L macro, 40STM, and 50STM the difference in autofocus speed between the 6D and A7II is imperceivable. I would say the STM lenses may actual auto focus faster on the Sony. When Sony added phase detect autofocus for DSLR (their own and third party) it really changed the entire equation. It worked so well I removed the Sony FE 70-200 f4 from the list of lenses I plan on buying near term if at all.
I am trading them in to get some Sony native glass for the A7II. I do not need a 6D right now most of what I used it for the Canon 7D II is better at.
Before the autofocus upgrade it was a pain in the neck. Shooting adapted manual lenses was enjoyable. But the short focus of modern autofocus not fun for manual focus, and forget autofocus it was to slow.
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This thread is a funny read so far. So many people are "dumping brand X and going to brand Y" every six months! Sales should be booming.
Question: are you sure that your camera's features are what's holding you back? Will 5% faster AF, or an extra 0.3 stops dynamic range really make you happy? Honest answers only please.
As for myself, I like the M1 and M3 for what they are. Small, light, cheap, incredibly sturdy, with great photo qualities (if you like Canon's colours, many do), and good video. I don't expect them to act like SLRs, because I've got SLRs. I don't want them to have the longest specs sheets, because I know from experience that will detract from operational coherence (making it harder to do what I really want, namely take pictures and make videos).
Question: are you sure that your camera's features are what's holding you back? Will 5% faster AF, or an extra 0.3 stops dynamic range really make you happy? Honest answers only please.
As for myself, I like the M1 and M3 for what they are. Small, light, cheap, incredibly sturdy, with great photo qualities (if you like Canon's colours, many do), and good video. I don't expect them to act like SLRs, because I've got SLRs. I don't want them to have the longest specs sheets, because I know from experience that will detract from operational coherence (making it harder to do what I really want, namely take pictures and make videos).
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Bernard said:
The M1 drove me crazy. I want a mode dial, three control dials, viewfinder and the ability to turn off the touch screen and never use it again. The M3 was close on paper but I have never seen one in person. I have found that Olympus, fujifilm, Panasonic, and Sony all produce mirrorless cameras closer to what I want. I can also just drive down the street and look at them. Never underestimate market presence.
As for dumping brand X and going to brand Y every six months I don't understand them either. For me it is a slow deliberate decision. I have been dual Canon /Sony sense 2012. Sony in now making decisions easier given how well their cameras work with Canon lenses.
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neuroanatomist said:
YTD Canon stock is -8.23%
3-YR Canon stock is -27.47%
Cash on hand is down 215 billion yen
pathetic...
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Loswr
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WillT said:
Spoken with all the business acumen of belly button lint. :
Gross profit? Up over the last 5 years. Net income? Up over the last 5 years. Net income per share attributable to shareholders? Up over the last 5 years. Total assets? Up over the last 5 years. Total liabilities? Up over the last 5 years, but up much less than assets.
Year to date (which as far as data go is 3Q2015), operating profit is down. Lower profit is not the same as loss.
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tcmatthews said:
Same here, I have been looking for an upgrade for my 450D for years. Gradually I came to the conclusion that Canon is not going to offer the type of camera that I want: pathetic progress in sensor quality, typical two steps forward one step back (or worse) approach to new models, and the combination of features that I want is only available in 'pro' cameras that in many ways are not my taste. Apparently I'm not the typical Canon buyer ;-(
So I have (reluctantly, because I'm happy with Canon lenses) been looking at the alternatives. I hate to switch because it can take months to learn a new camera, and if I switch the plan is to stick to the new camera line for many years.
Several Nikon cameras are very close to what I want but unfortunately there is no way to use Canon lenses and especially for DX in the WA range there are very few quality lenses. Sony A7R2 looks great to me but it's expensive and there are some limitations, especially that one of my main subjects requires fast AF (using Canon lens plus adapter, there are very few Sony/Zeiss lenses that I like up to now).
I'm tired of waiting for Canon to deliver and definitely going to buy something this year; going 'dual' might be an option as well (e.g. a Nikon with just a few lenses, or Sony A7R2 body plus metabones adapter for the more casual shots where fast AF is not essential). Theoretically a much improved SL2, 80D or 6D2 could keep me fully in the Canon camp but I'm not holding my breath for that.
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neuroanatomist said:
It was cheaper than buying the 20 mm pancake lens for my Sony. I loved the 22mm f2 lens. I could not stand the camera. I am now thinking that moving to m4/3 for a compact system camera seems like better idea. They have improved a lot in the last 4 years.
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