Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

[unfocused]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Most people buying a 6D will be buying their first full-frame camera.

people tend to think that enthusiasts rule the roost when it comes to camera sales. People tend to forget how many people purchase APS-C canon cameras over the years.

Canon's installed mount base is enormous. probably totaling well over 40 to 60 million. that's alot of cameras that *may* be interested in upgrading to a 6D.

the vast majority of them don't have dual card slots, they don't have 4K - they are looking for a decent upgrade to their x, y or z camera and probably have a few full frame lenses to boot.

Yes. I had to smile when "K" mentioned Machu Picchu. What do you suppose the ratio of single-card vs. dual-card slot cameras might be at any popular tourist site – 1,000 to 1? 10,000 to 1?

 

[Mikehit]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Yes. I had to smile when "K" mentioned Machu Picchu. What do you suppose the ratio of single-card vs. dual-card slot cameras might be at any popular tourist site – 1,000 to 1? 10,000 to 1?

That is only because 9,999 do not realise they need dual card slots, and if they saw the light they would then realise how essential it is and move to Nikon because the 6D2 doesn't have one.

 

[bereninga]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

On paper the specs of the D750 seem better for the lower price. However, there's more than just specs that need to be considered.

As a Canon shooter and hobbyist, I don't know that much about Nikon's lens offerings and I would be somewhat skeptical as to why Nikon's price is that much lower for something "better". A few things come to mind when I think of Nikon:

[list type=decimal]
[*]The D600 sensor oil spot issue.
[*]Is Nikon really in trouble? Back in Feb, there was a lot of buzz about Nikon's restructuring (https://fstoppers.com/business/nikon-announces-company-plans-moving-forward-financial-crisis-167270)
[*]Are Nikon's premium lenses better or on par w/ Canon's L lenses? This is just my ignorance.
[/list]

Perhaps Nikon is trying to win back the folks who tried to go FF w/ the D600 only to be burned by offering the better-spec'd D750.

As for the second card slot argument: folks, this is an entry-level FF camera, not professional. I've only had one SD card issue (it was the card, not the camera) so having a second slot hasn't been needed in the years I've owned my 6D. If I were a professional shooter, I'd def consider a camera that had two. Not everyone and their moms need 2 card slots.

 

[amorse]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

With the 6D becoming the best selling full-frame camera on the market, is it any wonder that Canon would repeat the same formula with the 6DII? None of this should be a surprise to anyone. Sales are going to dictate the path Canon takes in development and marketing of their cameras, just like any other manufacturer.

Yes, plenty of other cameras on the market have advantages in one feature or another, but many haven't translated into gains in market share, so I would suggest that those advancements are not being demanded by the market. People vote with their wallet.

If I were buying into market again today, I would still choose Canon's cameras even though other manufacturers have features I'd appreciate at the same price point. Why? Because I see choosing a manufacturer as a long-term investment: once I buy lenses for that camera I expect it to work with my next camera body too. Looking at the financial performance of camera manufactures today, I am just too concerned that Nikon is struggling and may not be around long enough to keep selling me cameras over the coming years. Same for Pentax. Canon is the only company which I have seen as being rock solid in the camera market with enough of the features I want. That's enough for me to forgo some features.

 

[tron]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

An entry level FF camera may not have a 2nd card slot but in that case the price should be corrected downwards. Just my opinion. Of course buyers decide that. I believe its price will get lower rather soon (6 months?) from its release. We will see.

 

[Etienne]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Vincent LaForet gives us a glimpse of the future - why convergence of photography and video is important. This also is a good explanation of why many are legitimately frustrated that the 6D2 does not include 4K:

Many of us need to do both video and photography. The constant refrain that you should bring a video camera and a stills camera is made almost exclusively by people who don't shoot video. Laforet explains that it is usually not possible to bring and manage that much gear.

This video is well done, and it highlights that 4K is just the start. Of course few people can buy a Red today, but the technology on display is the future, and the issues he addresses wrt equipment and capabilities are with us right now. It won't be long before we are shooting 4K RAW in a small affordable camera. I seriously doubt that Canon will get there first. Watch for Sony and Panasonic to bring this magic to the masses.

https://vimeo.com/221851116

 

[scyrene]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

1. Here is yet another real world working pro advocating the importance of dual card slots. Every single one I've run into also has the same exact opinion. Many highly popular Youtubers also advocate it as an important feature. The pros I've seen or worked with who don't have dual slots are in the process of upgrading to dual slots...bingo! This means NO Canon if they can't pony up the $3,300. Only in this forum, among the apologists and fanatics do we constantly hear the downplaying of dual card slots...

2. Some will dismiss this because he's a pro. But dual slots is important for others too. Any decent vacation is going to run at least $5,000 and that is going very cheap...to travel to interesting and amazing once in a lifetime places is easily double that or more. Yeah, I want to go to Machu Picchu or the Great Wall - shoot on my turd 6D2 and have the Sandisk card decide to die on me. Oh well...But forget even the travelers. Birth of a child - this is once in a lifetime. You don't get another chance at that....the list goes on. There are many reasons for even non-pros to want data security. Even a hobbyist - why waste time and energy reshooting something?

4. Nikon is far from perfect, and they have their gripes too. But their bodies at this price range are stacked with capability that you cannot get in Canon unless you move up $1,300 to the 5D line.

5. I'm not sure why some of these apologists and fanatics even bother sharing their irrelevant opinions? Most of them admittedly run 1DX, 1DX2 and 5D series cameras and have multiple pro bodies. This is like a Mercedes Benz collector walking into a conversation among two Honda owners who are hoping next year's model has side impact airbags and constantly S___ting on them for expecting some reasonable safety at that price point.

The 6D2 was, for a LOT of people - a huge reason to hold out and wait. But with Canon laying the egg and giving only 1 card slot, they have sent a massive slap across the face to their users and straight up are saying if you have any commercial applications whatsoever - you're paying $3,300 in Canonland. This camera might just be the biggest let down release from Canon of all time. This won't mean it won't sell - we've covered that 10x over. There's enough volume of EOS system users who have no choice to make sure no execs at Canon get fired over this camera.

Now with the 6D2 being single slot useless -- there's no reason to hold out. If you're not hopelessly "invested" aka trapped in Canon glass, time to liquidate and move on if you need a modern sensor and not have to pay $3K or more. In 2017 and Canon is putting out a $2,000 FF with single slot tells you that they have no intention of EVER reversing course on this decision to cripple cameras. Another 4-5 years from now will not magically produce any kind of time-based or evolutionary based reasoning for adding it. It is safe to say, the 6D3 if such a camera ever arrives will be the same single slot uselessness as the previous 2 generations.

Which makes everything I've said correct. Canon has, a long time ago, decided that this one, simple, basic feature is of great, great importance. And for that reason, they omit it.

Also, those people who said AF is a bigger factor in product separation - nope. It is a factor, but no where near as important as dual slots. Canon agrees with me given their actions. But even the AF is nerfed. Nikon put the same AF system in the D45, D810 in the D750. And this is a GOOD system that is better than the 5D series....

Canon makes great products and is a market leader. But none of that changes the fact that the 6D2, based on the rumored specs, is a poor value and an underspecced camera.

I think the reason some people here have reacted to what you say so strongly is your hyperbole. I've highlighted some examples above.

Relying on one memory card may well be risky - but in the personal examples you give above, you have time to swap cards. Say you lose a day's photos - that would be a shame in the holiday scenario but not a total loss if you swap cards each day (or download the photos each day), and no problem at all with the child scenario - your baby isn't changing on a daily basis (and the chances of the card failing on a day when it did matter - like a birthday - are even more infinitesimal than it failing in general).

Clearly this is a big deal to you, but belittling those who disagree is uncalled for. Calling everyone who disagrees with you - however reasonably, however supported by example or evidence, a 'fanatic' or 'apologist' is a great way to alienate everyone and make people think you a fool. I think you've let this become an obsession, and blown its importance way out of proportion. Try to calm down. I'm not sure what value your insulting people brings to these forums.

 

[Mikehit]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Vincent LaForet gives us a glimpse of the future - why convergence of photography and video is important. This also is a good explanation of why many are legitimately frustrated that the 6D2 does not include 4K:

Many of us need to do both video and photography. The constant refrain that you should bring a video camera and a stills camera is made almost exclusively by people who don't shoot video. Laforet explains that it is usually not possible to bring and manage that much gear.

This video is well done, and it highlights that 4K is just the start. Of course few people can buy a Red today, but the technology on display is the future, and the issues he addresses wrt equipment and capabilities are with us right now. It won't be long before we are shooting 4K RAW in a small affordable camera. I seriously doubt that Canon will get there first. Watch for Sony and Panasonic to bring this magic to the masses.

https://vimeo.com/221851116

No-one is doubting that video is becoming more popular.
The issue is those who say that the 6D should be a $2,000 FF camera with 4k - something that no-one else offers; yet Canon should seemingly add 4k without an increase in cost because, they assume, the technology is there so they can do it virtually no cost. A meme that even Vincent has fallen for.

 

[bereninga]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

1. Here is yet another real world working pro advocating the importance of dual card slots. Every single one I've run into also has the same exact opinion. Many highly popular Youtubers also advocate it as an important feature. The pros I've seen or worked with who don't have dual slots are in the process of upgrading to dual slots...bingo! This means NO Canon if they can't pony up the $3,300. Only in this forum, among the apologists and fanatics do we constantly hear the downplaying of dual card slots...

2. Some will dismiss this because he's a pro. But dual slots is important for others too. Any decent vacation is going to run at least $5,000 and that is going very cheap...to travel to interesting and amazing once in a lifetime places is easily double that or more. Yeah, I want to go to Machu Picchu or the Great Wall - shoot on my turd 6D2 and have the Sandisk card decide to die on me. Oh well...But forget even the travelers. Birth of a child - this is once in a lifetime. You don't get another chance at that....the list goes on. There are many reasons for even non-pros to want data security. Even a hobbyist - why waste time and energy reshooting something?

4. Nikon is far from perfect, and they have their gripes too. But their bodies at this price range are stacked with capability that you cannot get in Canon unless you move up $1,300 to the 5D line.

5. I'm not sure why some of these apologists and fanatics even bother sharing their irrelevant opinions? Most of them admittedly run 1DX, 1DX2 and 5D series cameras and have multiple pro bodies. This is like a Mercedes Benz collector walking into a conversation among two Honda owners who are hoping next year's model has side impact airbags and constantly S___ting on them for expecting some reasonable safety at that price point.

The 6D2 was, for a LOT of people - a huge reason to hold out and wait. But with Canon laying the egg and giving only 1 card slot, they have sent a massive slap across the face to their users and straight up are saying if you have any commercial applications whatsoever - you're paying $3,300 in Canonland. This camera might just be the biggest let down release from Canon of all time. This won't mean it won't sell - we've covered that 10x over. There's enough volume of EOS system users who have no choice to make sure no execs at Canon get fired over this camera.

Now with the 6D2 being single slot useless -- there's no reason to hold out. If you're not hopelessly "invested" aka trapped in Canon glass, time to liquidate and move on if you need a modern sensor and not have to pay $3K or more. In 2017 and Canon is putting out a $2,000 FF with single slot tells you that they have no intention of EVER reversing course on this decision to cripple cameras. Another 4-5 years from now will not magically produce any kind of time-based or evolutionary based reasoning for adding it. It is safe to say, the 6D3 if such a camera ever arrives will be the same single slot uselessness as the previous 2 generations.

Which makes everything I've said correct. Canon has, a long time ago, decided that this one, simple, basic feature is of great, great importance. And for that reason, they omit it.

Also, those people who said AF is a bigger factor in product separation - nope. It is a factor, but no where near as important as dual slots. Canon agrees with me given their actions. But even the AF is nerfed. Nikon put the same AF system in the D45, D810 in the D750. And this is a GOOD system that is better than the 5D series....

Canon makes great products and is a market leader. But none of that changes the fact that the 6D2, based on the rumored specs, is a poor value and an underspecced camera.

I think the reason some people here have reacted to what you say so strongly is your hyperbole. I've highlighted some examples above.

Relying on one memory card may well be risky - but in the personal examples you give above, you have time to swap cards. Say you lose a day's photos - that would be a shame in the holiday scenario but not a total loss if you swap cards each day (or download the photos each day), and no problem at all with the child scenario - your baby isn't changing on a daily basis.

Clearly this is a big deal to you, but belittling those who disagree is uncalled for. Calling everyone who disagrees with you - however reasonably, however supported by example or evidence, a 'fanatic' or 'apologist' is a great way to alienate everyone and make people think you a fool. I think you've let this become an obsession, and blown its importance way out of proportion. Try to calm down. I'm not sure what value your insulting people brings to these forums.

+1

Forgot to highlight "Now with the 6D2 being single slot useless". I've taken plenty of shots w/ just one slot so "useless" is a bit extreme.

And I actually would prefer more AF points than an extra SD slot. There's no point in having the extra storage to hold an image that's out of focus right? Do you really think SD cards of today are that unreliable? Have you had a lot of bad luck w/ SD cards? Just trying to understand why two slots is so important to you that you believe it's a must-have.

 

[scrup]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

There is more chance your camera getting stolen then a card failing.

Good to have 2 slots but not a necessity.

Pros need to get the 5D, stop being a tightwad and put down the dough.

 

[unfocused]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Vincent LaForet gives us a glimpse of the future - why convergence of photography and video is important. This also is a good explanation of why many are legitimately frustrated that the 6D2 does not include 4K:

Many of us need to do both video and photography. The constant refrain that you should bring a video camera and a stills camera is made almost exclusively by people who don't shoot video. Laforet explains that it is usually not possible to bring and manage that much gear.

This video is well done, and it highlights that 4K is just the start. Of course few people can buy a Red today, but the technology on display is the future, and the issues he addresses wrt equipment and capabilities are with us right now. It won't be long before we are shooting 4K RAW in a small affordable camera. I seriously doubt that Canon will get there first. Watch for Sony and Panasonic to bring this magic to the masses.

https://vimeo.com/221851116

No-one is doubting that video is becoming more popular.
The issue is those who say that the 6D should be a $2,000 FF camera with 4k - something that no-one else offers; yet Canon should seemingly add 4k without an increase in cost because, they assume, the technology is there so they can do it virtually no cost. A meme that even Vincent has fallen for.

There is also the issue that convergence inevitably leads to divergence.

To explain: Video was added to DSLRs as an afterthought. A nice "bonus" that didn't really add any cost to the cameras. Suddenly, videographers discovered how useful video in a DSLR could be. Amateurs who had no experience and resources for full scale video began finding they could do video on the cheap with DSLRs and with the simultaneous growth of You Tube it exploded.

But there are limits to convergence. A video camera is not a stills camera and at some point the needs of one begin to conflict with the needs of the other, or at a minimum, the "free" aspect of video starts to get expensive as technology advances. Especially as people become more sophisticated in their use of video and demand more specialized functions and features.

So, we are left with compromises. I expect that eventually 4K may be readily available in all DSLRs and Mirrorless cameras, but I also suspect that as technology marches forward, it will become increasingly difficult to design cameras that do it all. It's really no surprise to me that Canon is moving cautiously on the 4K front and given the weak implementation by other brands, we are probably in for more divergence than convergence in the coming years.

 

[amorse]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Now with the 6D2 being single slot useless -- there's no reason to hold out. If you're not hopelessly "invested" aka trapped in Canon glass, time to liquidate and move on if you need a modern sensor and not have to pay $3K or more. In 2017 and Canon is putting out a $2,000 FF with single slot tells you that they have no intention of EVER reversing course on this decision to cripple cameras. Another 4-5 years from now will not magically produce any kind of time-based or evolutionary based reasoning for adding it. It is safe to say, the 6D3 if such a camera ever arrives will be the same single slot uselessness as the previous 2 generations.

I think the reason some people here have reacted to what you say so strongly is your hyperbole. I've highlighted some examples above.

Relying on one memory card may well be risky - but in the personal examples you give above, you have time to swap cards. Say you lose a day's photos - that would be a shame in the holiday scenario but not a total loss if you swap cards each day (or download the photos each day), and no problem at all with the child scenario - your baby isn't changing on a daily basis.

Clearly this is a big deal to you, but belittling those who disagree is uncalled for. Calling everyone who disagrees with you - however reasonably, however supported by example or evidence, a 'fanatic' or 'apologist' is a great way to alienate everyone and make people think you a fool. I think you've let this become an obsession, and blown its importance way out of proportion. Try to calm down. I'm not sure what value your insulting people brings to these forums.

+1

Forgot to highlight "Now with the 6D2 being single slot useless". I've taken plenty of shots w/ just one slot so "useless" is a bit extreme.

And I actually would prefer more AF points than an extra SD slot. There's no point in having the extra storage to hold an image that's out of focus right? Do you really think SD cards of today are that unreliable? Have you had a lot of bad luck w/ SD cards? Just trying to understand why two slots is so important to you that you believe it's a must-have.

If anyone else finds the 6DII to be useless, I'd be happy to take theirs! I'll find a use for it.

 

[LonelyBoy]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

No-one is doubting that video is becoming more popular.
The issue is those who say that the 6D should be a $2,000 FF camera with 4k - something that no-one else offers; yet Canon should seemingly add 4k without an increase in cost because, they assume, the technology is there so they can do it virtually no cost. A meme that even Vincent has fallen for.

Yup. This is exactly why I would honestly love to see Canon exclude video from future DSLRs. Video is "free". Sure. Until you demand enough processing for higher bitrate, 4k, this codec, that codec, add a clean HDMI-out port, a headphone port, added cooling so that it's not "crippled" to a restricted clip length, and so on. All this is expected to be free, of course, because "video is free". Video in DSLRs created an expectation that DSLRs are going to be equal to full-bore video cameras and then people whine when they aren't. For free.

My conclusion, if I were Canon, would be that the video freaks cannot be pleased and are bad customers, expecting the world for free. They're not worth chasing, not with DSLRs.

 

[BurningPlatform]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Vincent LaForet gives us a glimpse of the future - why convergence of photography and video is important. This also is a good explanation of why many are legitimately frustrated that the 6D2 does not include 4K:

https://vimeo.com/221851116

As Laforet says, 8k is the next step towards convergence, provided it has RAW recording capability. It is a pity that 6D2 will not have it, though. I remember when DV cameras were a step towards convergence. And then HD. And now 4k. But for serious photography the 8MB 4k frame grabs are of course still useless.

But it is not yet my ideal camera, which would have the following specifications:
- fixed lens with full 4*pi field of view
- enough pixels so that you can select an equivalent of 1000mm lens field of view from the full zillion MB spherical image with 8k resolution in post. I have not calculated how many pixels that means in practical terms, though I think it is quite many.
- at least 1000 fps to be able to record e.g. lightning strikes.
- no quality loss when shooting at night.
- fully logarithmic response to exposure from near darkness to surface luminosity of the sun, with no banding.

Maybe I will have to keep waiting for a while. I may pick up a 6D2 in the mean time, though, and just try to capture the magic moments manually.

 

[Mikehit]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Vincent LaForet gives us a glimpse of the future - why convergence of photography and video is important. This also is a good explanation of why many are legitimately frustrated that the 6D2 does not include 4K:

https://vimeo.com/221851116

As Laforet says, 8k is the next step towards convergence, provided it has RAW recording capability. It is a pity that 6D2 will not have it, though. I remember when DV cameras were a step towards convergence. And then HD. And now 4k. But for serious photography the 8MB 4k frame grabs are of course still useless.

But it is not yet my ideal camera, which would have the following specifications:
- fixed lens with full 4*pi field of view
- enough pixels so that you can select an equivalent of 1000mm lens field of view from the full zillion MB spherical image with 8k resolution in post. I have not calculated how many pixels that means in practical terms, though I think it is quite many.
- at least 1000 fps to be able to record e.g. lightning strikes.
- no quality loss when shooting at night.
- fully logarithmic response to exposure from near darkness to surface luminosity of the sun, with no banding.

Maybe I will have to keep waiting for a while. I may pick up a 6D2 in the mean time, though, and just try to capture the magic moments manually.

You are K and I claim my $5.

 

[Khalai]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Most people buying a 6D will be buying their first full-frame camera.

people tend to think that enthusiasts rule the roost when it comes to camera sales. People tend to forget how many people purchase APS-C canon cameras over the years.

Canon's installed mount base is enormous. probably totaling well over 40 to 60 million. that's alot of cameras that *may* be interested in upgrading to a 6D.

the vast majority of them don't have dual card slots, they don't have 4K - they are looking for a decent upgrade to their x, y or z camera and probably have a few full frame lenses to boot.

Yes. I had to smile when "K" mentioned Machu Picchu. What do you suppose the ratio of single-card vs. dual-card slot cameras might be at any popular tourist site – 1,000 to 1? 10,000 to 1?

I find hysterically ironic, that "K" post rank qualifies him/her as "6D" - the very body he/she loathes so much and probably has a few preowned 6D bodies at his/her home for hammer-bashing practice 8)

 

[wildwalker]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

I find hysterically ironic, that "K" post rank qualifies him/her as "6D" - the very body he/she loathes so much and probably has a few preowned 6D bodies at his/her home for hammer-bashing practice 8)

Awwww, time for an upgrade K, 6DMk2 perhaps?

 

[snappy604]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

what no discussion on the really important features they did add?? ;D
- Wi-Fi
- Bluetooth
- NFC

Are they new printer button or will it bring more value than say dual slot or 4k? seems to add cost without the benefit other features would bring. Curious to how people would use these.

don't mind me, just adding to the noise!

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

I find hysterically ironic, that "K" post rank qualifies him/her as "6D" - the very body he/she loathes so much and probably has a few preowned 6D bodies at his/her home for hammer-bashing practice 8)

Effing brilliant. Good catch.

- A

 

[Khalai]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

what no discussion on the really important features they did add?? ;D
- Wi-Fi
- Bluetooth
- NFC

Are they new printer button or will it bring more value than say dual slot or 4k? seems to add cost without the benefit other features would bring. Curious to how people would use these.

don't mind me, just adding to the noise!

Wi-Fi is not new, original 6D has that as well

I'm still waiting on "Inspiration" button along with "Artistic vision" front dial. Wonder when they'll finally add those.