Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

[privatebydesign]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Convergence is bullish!t hype that will never have anything but very limited uses. For a start RAW video is crazy huge file sizes, add 8k and it is unmanageable. But the real killer is the shutter speed issue, optimal shutter speed for video is practically never optimal for stills.

The convergence marketing crap was rolled out for 4K and largely fell on its face, the same will happen for 8k.

 

[BurningPlatform]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

You are K and I claim my $5.

I don't know which one of us you try to offend, but no $5 for you. I actually really like the specs of 6D2 for the price but I am too old to use explicit sarcasm markers. Oh, those good old days...

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Convergence is bullish!t hype that will never have anything but very limited uses. For a start RAW video is crazy huge file sizes, add 8k and it is unmanageable. But the real killer is the shutter speed issue, optimal shutter speed for video is practically never optimal for stills.

The convergence marketing crap was rolled out for 4K and largely fell on its face, the same will happen for 8k.

Convergence as "a thing", a great transcendent moment in photography's evolution = agree completely.

But pulling stills from video will 100% happen someday. It will obviously start on the video side where folks were already planning to capture all that data down, and "Wow, that doesn't look like s---!" will be the words coming out of their mouth as they flip an 8K shot into a decent still. It will be niche.

But over time, I could those making movies start pulling stills from production footage and not having to hire an on-set photographer for promotional materials. I could see wildlifers getting madly OCD about nailing the pivotal moment (e.g. the fish in the mouth, the most dramatic lion about to bite moment, etc.) without needing a 20 fps still rig to do it.

I'm not saying that it's practical or inevitable (anytime soon) for serious stills shooters, but some folks 100% will find a way to use it.

- A

 

[Khalai]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Convergence is bullish!t hype that will never have anything but very limited uses. For a start RAW video is crazy huge file sizes, add 8k and it is unmanageable. But the real killer is the shutter speed issue, optimal shutter speed for video is practically never optimal for stills.

The convergence marketing crap was rolled out for 4K and largely fell on its face, the same will happen for 8k.

Convergence as "a thing", a great transcendent moment in photography's evolution = agree completely.

But pulling stills from video will 100% happen someday. It will obviously start on the video side where folks were already planning to capture all that data down, and "Wow, that doesn't look like s---!" will be the words coming out of their mouth as they flip an 8K shot into a decent still. It will be niche.

But over time, I could those making movies start pulling stills from production footage and not having to hire an on-set photographer for promotional materials. I could see wildlifers getting madly OCD about nailing the pivotal moment (e.g. the fish in the mouth, the most dramatic lion about to bite moment, etc.) without needing a 20 fps still rig to do it.

I'm not saying that it's practical or inevitable (anytime soon) for serious stills shooters, but some folks 100% will find a way to use it.

- A

Well, good luck pulling photos of blurred water, stopped motion or panning shots from videoreel, usually twice the shutter speed than the video frame rate

 

[unfocused]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Convergence is bullish!t hype that will never have anything but very limited uses. For a start RAW video is crazy huge file sizes, add 8k and it is unmanageable. But the real killer is the shutter speed issue, optimal shutter speed for video is practically never optimal for stills.

The convergence marketing crap was rolled out for 4K and largely fell on its face, the same will happen for 8k.

Convergence as "a thing", a great transcendent moment in photography's evolution = agree completely.

But pulling stills from video will 100% happen someday. It will obviously start on the video side where folks were already planning to capture all that data down, and "Wow, that doesn't look like s---!" will be the words coming out of their mouth as they flip an 8K shot into a decent still. It will be niche.

But over time, I could those making movies start pulling stills from production footage and not having to hire an on-set photographer for promotional materials. I could see wildlifers getting madly OCD about nailing the pivotal moment (e.g. the fish in the mouth, the most dramatic lion about to bite moment, etc.) without needing a 20 fps still rig to do it.

I'm not saying that it's practical or inevitable (anytime soon) for serious stills shooters, but some folks 100% will find a way to use it.

- A

Well, good luck pulling photos of blurred water, stopped motion or panning shots from videoreel, usually twice the shutter speed that the videoframerate

You took the words right out of my mouth. Smooth video relies on motion blur between the frames.

 

[Famateur]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

K, just curious: Do you carry on this much with the release of a new Rebel?

6DI = Rebel + Full-Frame

Just as it sounds silly to complain about Rebels without 4K and dual card slots, it seems silly (to me) for people to complain about 6D series without 4K and dual card slots. (It's not silly to be disappointed -- just to moan and gripe while completely failing to recognize that you don't happen to fall within the target market segment for the camera.)

No matter how much you demonstrate that 4K and dual card slots are useful, or even necessary for yourself and others, it doesn't change the fact that you're essentially coming to a Rebel discussion and insulting everyone that...heaven forbid...doesn't feel like those two features are necessary. For them. Why not go to a group of actual Rebel users and tell them that their Rebels should shoot 4K and have dual card slots and that they're fools for falling for inferior cameras? I'll bet it would be the first time most had heard that a camera could have a second card slot. Seriously.

Yes, I know, it's a ~$2K camera. Show me another full-frame camera at that price that shoots 4K.
Yes, I know, Nikon is going to release one any day now, so Canon is just not forward-thinking enough.

I get it.

Still, the 6DII is an iterative-upgrade successor to the 6DI (full-frame Rebel), and on that basis, it's a pretty rockin' upgrade! It's closer to a full-frame 80D now than a full-frame Rebel...and yet...the price at launch is lower! Sounds like a winner to me.

Come to think about it, this isn't a new thing for Canon. It wasn't long ago when Canon added a top LCD and other goodies to...a Rebel (something you only used to see on the XXD series and up).

Damn you, Canon, for improving your cameras within their tier and at a lower price. Damn you, Canon!!!

Seriously, though, the 6D (and D610) were ~$2K camera's at the time because just having a full-frame sensor commanded a premium in the market. That still doesn't change the fact that they were essentially full-frame Rebels. Crop bodies have come a long way since then, and price for the entry-level full-frame camera's have fallen. For example, Nikon's current "Sale" price for the D610 is $1,499. Canon's current price for the 6D is $1,399. Simply having a full-frame sensor is no longer enough to support a ~$2K price in the market, so Canon has upgraded the features to maintain the value proposition.

It'll be fun to see what the launch price of the D610 successor will be, what features it will include, and whether it will sell well...

Bold predictions:

1) Nikon will release a D610 successor without 4K.
2) Nikon will release a D750 successor with 4K.
3) The price difference will be somewhere around $500-700.
4) Those who must have 4K will pay the premium and get the D750 successor.
5) Lots of people will complain...no matter how the above shakes out.

PS: On the name calling...maybe give it a rest?

The 6DII doesn't meet your needs. You assume that you represent the target market, so Canon screwed up.
The 6DII does meet my needs. I assume that I represent the target market, so Canon hit a home run.

See the problem there? We're each biased and assume that our world is the real world.

I'll always look like a Canon apologist or fanatic to you.
As long as you keep belittling people who disagree, you'll likely come across as a Canon antagonist.

Expressing disappointment for unmet expectations and giving rationale for your position are totally fine. Lobbing derogatory labels and making blanket statements just makes it fill mean-spirited or closed-minded.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

You took the words right out of my mouth. Smooth video relies on motion blur between the frames.

Don't bother me with trifles. After 20 years, at last my father's soul will have convergence. There will be video tonight!

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

I'm not saying that it's practical or inevitable (anytime soon) for serious stills shooters, but some folks 100% will find a way to use it.

- A

Well, good luck pulling photos of blurred water, stopped motion or panning shots from videoreel, usually twice the shutter speed that the videoframerate

You took the words right out of my mouth. Smooth video relies on motion blur between the frames.

Reiterated, with emphasis. Video will not kill the stills star anytime soon.

But the idea that if 'it can't do everything or speak to every need, why bother?' is a bit crude. There certainly are applications for pulling stills from video.

- A

 

[geekpower]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

hundreds of emotional posts about high end video features in a thread about an entry level full frame stills camera. seems legit...

 

[LonelyBoy]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

You took the words right out of my mouth. Smooth video relies on motion blur between the frames.

Don't bother me with trifles. After 20 years, at last my father's soul will have convergence. There will be video tonight!

*very polite golf clap*

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

You took the words right out of my mouth. Smooth video relies on motion blur between the frames.

Don't bother me with trifles. After 20 years, at last my father's soul will have convergence. There will be video tonight!

*very polite golf clap*

So good.

 

[BillB]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

What a problem: one camera has a tilty/flippy screen with touchscreen video autofocus. The other camera has two card slots. How will people be able to make up their minds? Why should they have to choose want they want?

 

[snappy604]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

While there are not many, here's a Sony SLR with 4k video sub $3k

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1324478-REG/sony_ilce7sm2_b_v_alpha_a7s_ii_mirrorless.html

its not that farfetched a discussion. Again it's not a show stopper for me, but it would've been nice.

and yes it's not apples to apples Just addressing some comments about 4k, full frame and price

 

[wildwalker]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Convergence is bullish!t hype that will never have anything but very limited uses. For a start RAW video is crazy huge file sizes, add 8k and it is unmanageable. But the real killer is the shutter speed issue, optimal shutter speed for video is practically never optimal for stills.

The convergence marketing crap was rolled out for 4K and largely fell on its face, the same will happen for 8k.

Convergence as "a thing", a great transcendent moment in photography's evolution = agree completely.

But pulling stills from video will 100% happen someday. It will obviously start on the video side where folks were already planning to capture all that data down, and "Wow, that doesn't look like s---!" will be the words coming out of their mouth as they flip an 8K shot into a decent still. It will be niche.

But over time, I could those making movies start pulling stills from production footage and not having to hire an on-set photographer for promotional materials. I could see wildlifers getting madly OCD about nailing the pivotal moment (e.g. the fish in the mouth, the most dramatic lion about to bite moment, etc.) without needing a 20 fps still rig to do it.

I'm not saying that it's practical or inevitable (anytime soon) for serious stills shooters, but some folks 100% will find a way to use it.

- A

Well, good luck pulling photos of blurred water, stopped motion or panning shots from videoreel, usually twice the shutter speed that the videoframerate

You took the words right out of my mouth. Smooth video relies on motion blur between the frames.

Yes but there already cameras that can capture 1000 frames a second. Now I am not saying the Canon DSLR will do that anytime, but if you can grab a single dump of the sensor, in a very short time (short enough not to interrupt the recording, then you could provide stills capture. For that film feel, at 24 frames a second, you are talking about a period of around 40ms, for shooting 24 frames a second, I have to ask, how long would you set your shutter? would you use the whole 40mS, or would you go to another setting? Would there then be enough time to grab a frame, at a speed of greater than say 10mS (so 1/125 is only 8mS) and throw that in a buffer to be processed in the background?

Yes, if you want video and the ability to shoot 6fps stills, not going to happen short term. But shooting video, and capturing occasional frames, even say 1 fps up to a maximum of 3 per minute, that would be a great start.

I don't think it is as impossible as you believe. However, as you are probably better aware than i am, the marketing folks at Canon won't do it unless they believe that it will give them a competitive advantage over a directly competing product line, or unless it's something that can be directly charged (i.e. price increase over previous model).

Alan.

 

[Khalai]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

While there are not many, here's a Sony SLR with 4k video sub $3k

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1324478-REG/sony_ilce7sm2_b_v_alpha_a7s_ii_mirrorless.html

its not that farfetched a discussion. Again it's not a show stopper for me, but it would've been nice.

and yes it's not apples to apples Just addressing some comments about 4k, full frame and price

That's actually quite a good deal for those wanting 4K FF goodness. Problem with A7sII is its videocentricism as I guess not many people would be satisfied today with mere 12 MP images, when 20-30 MP are predominant today and with no other than again Sony and its A7rII 42 MP AA-less camera trailing (resolution-wise) those 50MP beasts from Canon. Apparently no one can have best of both worlds - yet.

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Most people buying a 6D will be buying their first full-frame camera.

people tend to think that enthusiasts rule the roost when it comes to camera sales. People tend to forget how many people purchase APS-C canon cameras over the years.

Canon's installed mount base is enormous. probably totaling well over 40 to 60 million. that's alot of cameras that *may* be interested in upgrading to a 6D.

the vast majority of them don't have dual card slots, they don't have 4K - they are looking for a decent upgrade to their x, y or z camera and probably have a few full frame lenses to boot.

Yes. I had to smile when "K" mentioned Machu Picchu. What do you suppose the ratio of single-card vs. dual-card slot cameras might be at any popular tourist site – 1,000 to 1? 10,000 to 1?

Peru's on my next year list.

I went up Monserrate yesterday because it was a holiday here in Colombia. I saw 2 canon DSLR's, 1 Nikon DSLR and a canon M. (no joke). I didn't see any other mirrorless besides me and a friend of mine. Hard to spot any DSLR's or cameras here in Bogota, but I was certainly surprised by the M. Both DSLR's were APS-C. one a lower end rebel, the other a higher end rebel.

Hardly anyone carries a visible camera here in bogota though.

when in Mexico City especially at Teotihuacan I usually spot alot of Canon DSLR's .. I'll be curious if that's changed when i go back there in a month. Mexico city in the past, I saw alot of 5 and 6D's. be curious on how that changed.

realistically 99% of all photography uses a single SD more specifically a micro SD slot on most phones or some form of nano storage. none of it is backed up immediately unless you backup via your data connection.

we have cameras with hundred's of images of buffer depth. what happens if the camera resets then?

in theory for a redundant camera, you should have a buffer of 1 with our dual card slots, or they are actually kind of useless.

 

[scyrene]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

I could those making movies start pulling stills from production footage and not having to hire an on-set photographer for promotional materials.

Hasn't that been the case for decades? You'd still need posed shots for many purposes either way.

 

[preppyak]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

The equivalently price Sony and Nikon bodies do not offer UHD, so why would the Canon?

A7s does 4k for <$2k at full-frame (with 4:2:2 HDMI out). A7RII does it while having 42mp and a better AF system at $2500.

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

The equivalently price Sony and Nikon bodies do not offer UHD, so why would the Canon?

A7s does 4k for <$2k at full-frame (with 4:2:2 HDMI out).

no it doesn't .. unless you think Atomos recorders are free.

 

[BillB]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

The equivalently price Sony and Nikon bodies do not offer UHD, so why would the Canon?

A7s does 4k for <$2k at full-frame (with 4:2:2 HDMI out). A7RII does it while having 42mp and a better AF system at $2500.

If you are talking about the A7SII, I believe the price at introduction was $3000, while the initial price of the A7RII was $3300. Sure, you can get them for less now, and my advice would be to go ahead and get one if that is what floats your boat. Don't know what that says about whether it is remotely realistic to expect Canon to put 4K on a camera that will be introduced at $2000 though. Don't know what that says about whether Sony is making any money at the current prices either. So far as I know, no full frame DSLR with 4K has ever been introduced below the $3000 price point.