Pro Mirrorless Mentions and More

[Quackator]

Could be that they'll improve the AF with certain lenses with the adaptor so that it's comparable
to normal EF mount speeds. Perhaps an updated EF - EFM adaptor to go with it?

That would rather be a software/cpu update, as the EF to EF-M adapter is only
a mechanical thing with all the mount connections simply looping through.

There is as far as I know no electronics, the adapter simply forwards the contacts.

 

[FunkyCamera]

Or maybe Canon could just not waste their time with this and avoid the mirrorless myth.

 

[Pitbullo]

I just hope they go all in when they decide to make a real mirror less effort.

 

[Stu_bert]

Best in class - perhaps they're meaning for Canon cameras not the market in general - as Dilbert pointed out, Northlight says it's on internal marketing slides

Improved EF support - I thought some owners have highlighted that some lenses work better with the adapter than others. Canon will be spurred into action by the effort Sony has made. It will be interesting if that is just firmware in the camera or tweaks to lens firmware (more problematic to implement).

If it is APS sensor, then Canon only need to worry about the 7D II - I would expect it to be priced higher than the Rebels aka 70D, and it won't be optimised for sport & wildlife like the 7D II. They've avoided any FF competition, so the 5/6/1 cannot be compared and if all of them are being updated next year then the 2016 iterations will keep the gap between FF and APS.

It's all plausible as the best rumours are, but i think if it is indeed aimed at the Pro/Enthusiast market then Canon will have researched the price point closely so it will be interesting to see what the MSRP is.

As on a different thread about mirrorless features and ergonomics by Ming Thein, one area Canon could pull a rabbit out of the hat is carefully thought out operations - making the best of what they have in dSLR ergonomics and offering a "tailored to mirrorless" version - familiar to Canon users but only where it makes sense.

 

[StudentOfLight]

How many stills should you get on a single battery with a pro camera?
How many minutes of video should you get on a single battery with a pro camera?
How many card-slots should you have on a pro camera?

 

[1Zach1]

I'll be interested if it's the same size as the M3 (or a bit smaller), if it's the size as the Rebel I'll be a bit disappointed.

 

[tcmatthews]

Pro APS-C, best in class. What Canon needs to match these goals in reality.

• Better styling than a fujifilm
• Faster auto-focus than the Sony successor to the A6000
• UHS-II cards
• 4k video internally recorded
• Around 10 frames a second continuous auto focus.

I fact just make sure it performs similar the 7D II only smaller. That should get you best in class. I suspect that other than the style points I just laid out the specs for the Sony A7000 that is rumored.

What I am afraid we will get is a camera along the lines of a Sony A6000 with slower auto-focus and a bunch of market speak.

 

[Etienne]

I'm betting this is next-generation Dual Pixel AF.

Hopefully they come up with some creative new ways to use sensor-wide AF.
I think it would be cool to have a track pad or analog stick to move the AF point dynamically. None of this "choose your AF point/pattern" stuff, just move the AF point exactly where you want it on the subject.
Let people make the AF point any shape you want. A circle, a square, an x or +, heck just throw in support for the whole alphabet. Once you're not limited to a set of dots on the screen AF possibilities could get pretty crazy.

DPAF would up the ante in video. The implementation on the C300 II is apparently really good. Videographers can count on it to track a face not just in interviews but in shallow DOF shots with lots of camera movement. This would help the one-man-band videographers enormously.
Add no moire or aliasing, 1080p 4:2:2 up to 120fps, and a 4 K mode and I'd be willing to call it best in class.

EDIT: also add touch screen to focus rack with adjustable rack speed

 

[AvTvM]

"Wider support for the EF lens family"
could mean any of these 3 things:
A. Canon finally puts a sensor with further improved Dual-Pixel AF into an EOS M Body - plus higher performance CPU/DIGIC + better firmware/algorithms -> should help AF performance with adapted EF lenses

and/or

B. new/additional EF-M adapter similar to the Sony LP-A3 adapter for A7 series - complete with [translucent, fixed] mirror, dedicated Phase-AF unit and Phase-AF CPU ... to really drive all those [non-STM] USM EF lenses at full speed matching [or besting comparable] EOS DSLRs. After all, that's the approach Sony has chosen too.

and/or

C. new/additional "speedbooster" type EF-M adapter

"Wider support for the EF lens family"
Something similar to a Metabones Speed Booster, perhaps 1-1/3 stops???

I'd rate [only] A. as most likely.

 

[TWI by Dustin Abbott]

For the moment I'm just happy to hear that the M3 is getting an update that will hopefully address some of the concerns that we will highlight in our review coming this week.

 

[ahsanford]

As on a different thread about mirrorless features and ergonomics by Ming Thein, one area Canon could pull a rabbit out of the hat is carefully thought out operations - making the best of what they have in dSLR ergonomics and offering a "tailored to mirrorless" version - familiar to Canon users but only where it makes sense.

Yep, that article is here if others haven't read it:
http://blog.mingthein.com/2015/11/03/how-to-design-mirrorless-right/

It should be pointed out that he's used everything and is generally unhappy with it. What he's asking for is a Frankenstein of his favorite features from a bunch of different platforms. He has some wonderful insights, but he'll never get such a camera.

- A

 

[nightscape123]

Lets hear more about the 6DII please!

Canon has pretty clearly demonstrated they aren't serious about mirrorless and I don't see them catching up.

The 6DII has much more potential imo!

 

[Etienne]

As on a different thread about mirrorless features and ergonomics by Ming Thein, one area Canon could pull a rabbit out of the hat is carefully thought out operations - making the best of what they have in dSLR ergonomics and offering a "tailored to mirrorless" version - familiar to Canon users but only where it makes sense.

Yep, that article is here if others haven't read it:
http://blog.mingthein.com/2015/11/03/how-to-design-mirrorless-right/

It should be pointed out that he's used everything and is generally unhappy with it. What he's asking for is a Frankenstein of his favorite features from a bunch of different platforms. He has some wonderful insights, but he'll never get such a camera.

- A

His suggestions are not at all unreasonable. I suspect that camera will arrive one day

 

[AvTvM]

http://blog.mingthein.com/2015/11/03/how-to-design-mirrorless-right/

It should be pointed out that he's used everything and is generally unhappy with it. What he's asking for is a Frankenstein of his favorite features from a bunch of different platforms. He has some wonderful insights, but he'll never get such a camera.

http://blog.mingthein.com/2015/11/03/how-to-design-mirrorless-right/
It should be pointed out that he's used everything and is generally unhappy with it. What he's asking for is a Frankenstein of his favorite features from a bunch of different platforms. He has some wonderful insights, but he'll never get such a camera.

I have gone through his entire requested features list and it is by no means a Frankenstein MILC camera he's requesting. In fact, the only features on that list I really would not need or use is everything to do with manual focusing [e.g. focus peaking]. Everything else really represents the long list of glaring mistakes committed by ALL the MILC makers so far.

I will not buy another Canon mirrorflipper and no EOS M until they get MUCH closer to my wishlist - both for APS-C and FF-sensored mirrorless cameras and system.

 

[PhotographyFirst]

As on a different thread about mirrorless features and ergonomics by Ming Thein, one area Canon could pull a rabbit out of the hat is carefully thought out operations - making the best of what they have in dSLR ergonomics and offering a "tailored to mirrorless" version - familiar to Canon users but only where it makes sense.

Yep, that article is here if others haven't read it:
http://blog.mingthein.com/2015/11/03/how-to-design-mirrorless-right/

It should be pointed out that he's used everything and is generally unhappy with it. What he's asking for is a Frankenstein of his favorite features from a bunch of different platforms. He has some wonderful insights, but he'll never get such a camera.

- A

Is it me or is that guy not one of the most whinny and thin-skinned people on the internet? Read the comments where people point out the cameras offering what he wants, but that were left out of the article. It's like reading something by a 14 year old girl who complains about the lack of hair products that suit here first-world needs.

 

[ahsanford]

As on a different thread about mirrorless features and ergonomics by Ming Thein, one area Canon could pull a rabbit out of the hat is carefully thought out operations - making the best of what they have in dSLR ergonomics and offering a "tailored to mirrorless" version - familiar to Canon users but only where it makes sense.

Yep, that article is here if others haven't read it:
http://blog.mingthein.com/2015/11/03/how-to-design-mirrorless-right/

It should be pointed out that he's used everything and is generally unhappy with it. What he's asking for is a Frankenstein of his favorite features from a bunch of different platforms. He has some wonderful insights, but he'll never get such a camera.

- A

Is it me or is that guy not one of the most whinny and thin-skinned people on the internet? Read the comments where people point out the cameras offering what he wants, but that were left out of the article. It's like reading something by a 14 year old girl who complains about the lack of hair products that suit here first-world needs.

I'm not calling him the camera-whisperer. His sensibilities are not yours, and calling him out isn't going to change that.

I'm just saying he had some excellent insights:

• "Fully customisable auto-ISO with minimum and maximum sensitivity and shutter speed thresholds, including 1/FL or 1/2FL for zooms etc." --> Canon doesn't do this (at least not on my 5D3), and I'd love it if it did. When I use auto-ISO (a huge convenience in walkaround shooting when I have to stick and move), a 1/FL setting would be terrific -- it makes perfect sense.
  
  
• I'm intrigued by the built-in Arca rails idea. There might be a way to do that without wrecking the comfort of the grip.
  
  
• A small and large configuration of FF mirrorless could very well be where Canon goes. I think they'd just have two price points and two different sized bodies, but I agree that there are clearly two camps for FF mirrorless and Canon needs to figure out how to placate both.

- A

 

[privatebydesign]

but I agree that there are clearly two camps for FF mirrorless and Canon needs to figure out how to placate both.

- A

I don't see why. Canon have never tried to compete in every camera niche, if they don't see the money in it I don't see what would compel them to launch cameras in areas they felt are not commercially viable. Sure that might be leaving money on the table for other manufacturers but so what?

I don't understand why everybody thinks Canon 'need' to do this or that or anything else, normally something in line with their personal wishlist, but that isn't how business works. I can see them developing the M10 into the volume companion of the cash cow Rebels, and leveraging an 'enthusiast' M model off that isn't hard. But to think two models of a new line, none of which will be cheap by Canon introductory model standards, is taking that thinking a little far, I believe. The only way they could do that, from a business perspective, is to use the native EF mount, which would alienate half that mythical industry saving FF mirrorless buyer.

Incidentally, what are all these pent up future FF mirrorless people shooting with now?

 

[ahsanford]

but I agree that there are clearly two camps for FF mirrorless and Canon needs to figure out how to placate both.

- A

I don't understand why everybody thinks Canon 'need' to do this or that or anything else,

Incidentally, what are all these pent up future FF mirrorless people shooting with now?

Fair. Canon could drive around the 'small' camp as that means a new mount and new lenses. My two recent polls clearly lean towards a 'bigger' rig -- larger grip and the native EF mount were preferred. Perhaps that's Canon most straightforward play in FF mirrorless.

As far as the pent up mirrorless folks, Sony is bulking up its 2nd-gen bodies for a host of reasons, but we all know that larger f/2.8 zooms and f/1.4 primes are coming. Sony is bulking up the platform to compete for bread-and-butter FF SLR professionals.

Those folks from the the first crop of people who were lured to the original A7 bodies for non-sensor reasons -- i.e. the platform being small was their #1 driver -- are not super fond of the A7 platform bulking up. I hear a number of them voice disapproval of added body weight and rumors of large FF glass coming to the platform: "It's supposed to be a small platform", "With today's high ISO sensors, f/4 is the new f/2.8, so please stop making huge lenses", etc.

So I personally believe there are two major camps in FF mirrorless:

• "Keep it as small/light as possible" --> Skinny mirrorless mount, modest grip, f/4 zooms, f/2.8 primes, and limited focal length support (the adapt old lenses people are in here, too)
  
  
• "I want to be able to do everything I can with my SLR and more" --> EF (or Nikon F) mount, chunky grip, all the big/fast glass they have today, etc.

- A

 

[rrcphoto]

Suspending for a moment, all skepticism, Canon could knock one out of the ballpark if really, really, done right. On the other hand, it must be scary for them to release a product that could cannibalize their cash cows.

this is always a very weird statement that's not really backed up by any business sense. canon could care less if the margins are the same you purchase a DSLR versus a M, as long as they sell you a camea.

I suspect that this in no small way is one factor delaying release of mirrorless from Canon.

No, what's delaying the release is that there is very little in the way of momentum or sales for mirrorless.

Disruptive tech comes along, and it is good for us all.

there's no disruptive technology in mirrorless. the last disruptive technology already happened - it's called your smartphone.

 

[rrcphoto]

For the moment I'm just happy to hear that the M3 is getting an update that will hopefully address some of the concerns that we will highlight in our review coming this week.

the switch from DSLR firmware to powershot firmware in the M3 was exceedingly painful.

those developers seriously need to up their game - 1fps AEB support isn't even usable and too many features were simply dropped from what we had always had in DSLR's.

TI's got some nice shiny new DSP's and processors but it's all for moot if the developers write bad code.