A high-megapixel EOS R camera is still on the roadmap [CR2]

[BeenThere]

It’s high time for Canon to move away from geeky numbers for their cameras.
My suggestion:

R5 becomes T-Rex
The 100 mega pixel becomes Godzilla
The R6 becomes Raptor
Etc.

Much better for marketing and getting some separation from the also rans.

 

[AEWest]

I think R5s makes more sense than R3. R3 implies it is somehow a better camera than the R5 just because it has more pixels. And if it is getting a bigger and better body to go with the prestige of being one under the R1, I would still argue that the R5 should get the same treatment, which leads us back to R5s.

I think Canon should go back to its digital roots and use the double digit numbering system for the second tier (e.g. R10 rather than R6) and triple digit for introductory R camera (eg R100 rather than RP). I think they shot themselves in the foot with their current naming convention of R line.

 

[Deleted member 381342]

I think Canon should go back to its digital roots and use the double digit numbering system for the second tier (e.g. R10 rather than R6) and triple digit for introductory R camera (eg R100 rather than RP). I think they shot themselves in the foot with their current naming convention of R line.

1, 5, 6, and 7 leaves a lot of gaps.They could shift the 5 to the 3 and the 6 to the 5. Nice even gaps for new products.

 

[Deleted member 68328]

My guess is that Canon doesn't know what its mirrorless lineup will precisely look like on the long term. Maybe they'll introduce some cameras that sit between existing models, maybe not... But that makes me think that they will not spoil all numbers available (R2, R3, R4, ...) but will be cautious. So, I think it'll be called R5 S. I may be wrong.

 

[amorse]

I think that Canon has decided to keep the old camera designators but drop the "D" and replace a letter R in front. Thus a R5 will be equivalent in purpose to a 5D series model like a 5D MK V, and a R6 will be a 6D update.

A high MP R5 may carry a R5S model. That would be more compatible with Canon numbering schemes where the lower numbers are higher models. If a 7D replacement comes, it might be a R7.

Would a flagship be a R1 or a R1X?

Ya never know, they may go further back in their naming archives and call the high resolution body the R1s

 

[Dragon]

...that's like saying the shortcomings don't matter--as long as you have perfect lighting. That is a laughable excuse. That camera had junk ISO, plain and simple. And your comment about landscapes... I shot mostly landscapes when I was shooting with the 5D2 and 5D3... you are almost NEVER in perfect lighting conditions when you're shooting landscapes. There are plenty of times when ISO noise performance matters for landscapes.

Not sure what you mean by "junk ISO". The 5DS only has "native" ISO to 6400, but extends to 12800 and if you want 25600, simply turn the EV down one stop and the camera will happily oblige. If you are talking dynamic range, then note that from ISO 800 to ISO 12800, the 5DS, the 5D IV, the Nikon 850D, and the Sony A7R4 are all within a quarter stop and at ISO 6400, the 5DS is still the best. Look for yourself http://www.photonstophotos.net/Char...rk IV,Canon EOS 5DS,Nikon D850,Sony ILCE-7RM4

 

[HikeBike]

Not if R5 and R6 are in there, too, and everyone and their mother is expecting a gripped R1 to show up eventually.

I think Canon should go all numbers or go all letters (after the R, I mean). Mixing them up is confusing as hell.

- A

Seems like the pro bodies will get a number behind the R, the enthusiast bodies will get a capital letter behind the R, and specialist bodies will get a lower-case letter behind the R. As for the R itself...I think it will be dropped from the lineup.

 

[scyrene]

I know they have been doing well on the RF lenses but until I see it for myself and the reviews validate it, I simply do not care if Canon does a high res camera. I simply don't trust them. The 5DS has 50 megapixels and when it first came out people were excited. But the ISO on that camera is what, 6400? And you don't even want to go near that max for noise. To me they could do 70 megapixels they could do 80. Doesn't matter. The real question is how does the sensor handle noise? How is the dynamic range? Because megapixels alone as a criteria is absolutely foolish.

It's clear you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[AlanF]

Not sure what you mean by "junk ISO". The 5DS only has "native" ISO to 6400, but extends to 12800 and if you want 25600, simply turn the EV down one stop and the camera will happily oblige. If you are talking dynamic range, then note that from ISO 800 to ISO 12800, the 5DS, the 5D IV, the Nikon 850D, and the Sony A7R4 are all within a quarter stop and at ISO 6400, the 5DS is still the best. Look for yourself http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm

Agreed. One caveat is that the DR is the same when viewed at the same size. And you need this link

Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO Setting

 

[scyrene]

Of course. At the same time, the R doesn't do automatic focus stacking.

Segmentation, though, is not arbitrary. Canon and every other manufacturer, does what they think will generate the maximum amount of profit. What frustrates me with the throwing around of the word "crippled" is the implication that no other camera manufacturer "cripples" their cameras. Cripple has a strong negative connotation and belies the writer's lack of understanding when it comes to developing, marketing, and selling products.

Features such as DPAF showed up in the 70D first, I believe. That and the touch screen and articulating screen. They are blind, this "intentionally crippled" crowd, when it comes to features trickling up the product lines. The M6 Mark II is another example.

Aside from being a gross word to use anyhow, it implies something that is all but unusable. When what they mean is, it didn't get every feature or functionality they wanted/thought was possible. So it's hyperbole, too.

 

[David - Sydney]

As I wrote previously, RS does imply Rat S*** in some lingo but RS is also similar in looks to R5 hence the rumour that they couldn't tell if it was R5 or RS.
My guess is R3 instead.
R4 is unlikely due to the similarity in sound to "death" in many asian languages. See https://www.tofugu.com/japan/number-four-superstition/

 

[Stig Nygaard]

5.5K -> 8K is a bigger leap than "just an extra 2.5K pixels"

I played a bit with the numbers.
For an R5 to do 8K/30p video in same 12bit quality as 1DXIII does 5.5K/60p, how much extra data need to be read from sensor?

1DXIII:
5472x3648 (19.96megapixels)
5472x3648 * 60p = 1.197.711.360 <- This is the 100% reference

R5:
8192x5461 (44.74megapixels)
8192x5461 * 30p = 1.342.095.360 <- 112%
8192x5461 * 25p = 1.118.412.800 <- 93%
8192x5461 * 24p = 1.073.676.288 <- 90%

So 8K30p is 12% more "expensive" than the 5.5K/60p that the 1DXIII are cable of.
8K25p and 8K24p are "cheaper", so those should definitely be possible.

Of course this is (for both 1DXII and R5) without AF - Or at least without DPAF which would double the required readout from sensor (I don't know if 1DXIII can do contrast-based AF in 5.5K?).

 

[Mr Majestyk]

Well, keep in mind that the frames per second speed is adjustable. I think on the 1D you can even dial it in to exactly what you want it. But many cameras have had a slow burst and a fast burst for a long time. So if you don't want 12fps, don't use it. Problem solved.

As far as the megapixels, an increase in megapixels has been the most consistent advancement in digital cameras since the very beginning of digital cameras. While it's true that for some users we might be reaching a level where the number of megapixels is "good enough," it would be silly to expect Canon to just abandon any increase in camera resolution, especially when their rivals are still pushing forward with larger and larger numbers.

If photographers are "grumbling" about 30 megapixels or above, sorry, it's time for a new computer and/or memory cards. If you want the latest camera, you have to accept that you'll need the computer and storage to match it. If that's too much for you to handle, you're welcome to keep your old camera.

As long as they give people the choice, which is why Sony and Nikon offer 24MP FF and 46/61MP FF. Pick your poison. I don't care if Canon release 100MP, for me 45MP will be fine for now and it looks like they'll have a 20MP FF too, but down the track it may be a different story and a 80MP+ might appeal.

 

[scyrene]

Would a flagship be a R1 or a R1X?

Presumably R1, as the -X was added in the same way as numbered iterations. If it's the first of its kind, logically it would be R1, like the 1D. Not that logic is necessarily their preference in choosing names...

 

[Michael Clark]

So with a high mp body like this shutter becomes a huge factor. Will shooting it at mRaw or sRaw get rid of that problem slightly or will the camera always require a higher shutter speeds (or strobes) to get tack sharp images etc

Canon cameras with .cr3 raw files have yet to have any M-RAW or S-RAW output choices. The choice is between RAW or C-RAW.

Beyond that, your comment shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the difference in magnification when viewing a portion of high resolution images at 100% compared to viewing portions of lower resolution images at 100%. The more megapixels an image file has, the greater the enlargement ratio used to view at 100% on the same monitor.

Let's assume you're using a 24" FHD (1920x1080) monitor with a pitch of 96 ppi.

When you view a 24MP file at 100% you're looking at a piece of approximately an 60x40" enlargement.
When you view a 96MP file at 100% you're looking at a piece of approximately a 120x80" enlargement.

The greater the enlargement ratio, the greater the effect of the same amount of blur, relative to the total frame size. In other words, the same amount of camera shake will show up as more blur when you enlarge by a greater factor.

 

[Mr Majestyk]

Yes, I know. But don't forget 1DXIII does the 5.5K in *60fps* (12bit) RAW. R5 rumour says 8K in *30fps* RAW.
I DON'T think it will have DPAF in 8K mode. I don't think 1DXIII has that either? Maybe not even contrast AF? And like 1DXIII, probably 12bit.

They removed the RAW part of the 8K spec last week. Still don't believe for a minute it's not just in-camera 8K timelapse. The 1DXIII has DPAF in 4K30p and 4K60p when used in super 35 mode which is a 1.34x crop. The 1DXIII sensor has 1/60 second read speed, so allows 4K60p from full sensor, but clearly it not fast enough to offer DPAF. Does DPAF actually need to be read twice as fast so they would require 1/120s read speed for 4K60p from full sensor with AF?

 

[Dragon]

Agreed. One caveat is that the DR is the same when viewed at the same size. And you need this link

Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO Setting

Thanks for the link. I had figured folks were smart enough to add their cameras of choice, but changed the link for those who aren't . Yes, I know DR is measured based on a fixed picture resolution, but that is fair given that a fixed number of photons strike any same size sensor for a given scene and exposure. High res cameras clearly have more pixel level noise than low res cameras for the same exposure, but they are generally better after noise reduction because good noise reduction is quite a bit better than the simple averaging that occurs with larger pixels. In my experience, double the pixels buys about 3dB after NR, which kind of makes sense when you think about it. With a 5DS/r, shoot the image, run it through smart noise reduction, then shrink it to the size of the lower pixel count camera and compare it to that picture both before and after NR. You will like the high initial MP image better than either of the others.

 

[reefroamer]

+1. I am curious to see old tropes like 'entry' / 'all-around pro' / 'detail' / 'sports' start to die off for new user bases and use cases.

But if they were going to evolve or change... why immediately snap to the presumed R1 / R5 / R6 familiar structure? Why go with familiar names that parallel existing FF lines if you plan to subdivide / redefine them in the new system?

It's possible (time will tell) that the 1 / 5 / 6 series hierarchy is totally fine as is and Canon just needs to tweak one line or add a unique new one.

- A

The challenge for Canon will be to achieve profitable volumes in each of whatever segments they create in the present shrinking ILC market. Using the existing segments may not be the best strategy attract and sell to a new generation of photographers/videographers who represent the best opportunity to grow the market.

 

[Act444]

Could one of these supposed "4 full frame cameras coming in 2020" be the 5D5 instead? The 5D4 is due for a replacement soon (it's on the 4 year upgrade cycle)...

 

[[email protected]]

It's amazing how a bullish CR Guy (confident he's got proper leaks and not hearsay) changed my outlook. I was a firm 'oh, hell no' for the first few days of this, and now if the 5D5 and R5 turned out to be a more-like-the-Canon-we-know 36 MP x 8 fps I would be somewhat gutted.

I am buying into these R5/R6 rumors, but I believe that there will be some wicked fine print that tarnishes otherwise bonkers spec sheets.

- A

I’m still Not seeing much reason to expect this to be true. In fact, this posting on a high res version appears to be entirely unsourced, based on logic, yet raises the confidence of a high resolution release to cr2.

By the same logic, it should have been cr2 a year ago.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m buying, if the damned thing is made. But this Charlie Brown ain’t gonna let Lucy pull the ball away every two months for the next couple of years.