Canon EOS R5 pricing is still unknown, don’t believe the reports [CR0]

[peters]

You have a lot great gears bro. I would love to see your lens collection

Thank you Jeah its somehow an addiction. But in my agency we do some different kind of work so somehow this collection turns out to be the best combination.
5D IV and 5D III was my bread and butter for everyday shooting, productshots, business-photos, Events and weddings. One day I got a 1DX II used because video became more and more important for my work - some nice event documentations and some imagefilms where shot on the 1DX II. Its also great for event and replaced the 5D III which I sold.
For some studio video work I grabed some Gh4 and gh5, which are very afordable used (400€ and 900€) but where great for studio work where we shoot all day long. Before that we used the 5D and 1D - but the FHD image is aweful and the 4k data rate was too much. So the GH4 and GH5 was a handy, cheap and very usefull adition for studio work with bright light and not moving subjects (so no AF needed and the bad ISO performance doesnt matter)
The 1D was replaced by the S1H which is INCREDIBLE good when it comes to image quality, codecs, ports, IBIS (!) and so on. Lowlight quality is truely remarkable. Though it was a bargain and I guess I will sell it in some time. The lack of usable AF is for me personaly quite annoying. Also I dont like the photos - so I expect it got no value over the R5. Same for the 1D - its a nice camera, but with the R5 I dont see any place for the 1D in my kit.
The A7R IV was bought out of curiosity - I used it a lot on travel where it certainly shines because of the size. Also for some productshots where the resolution comes in handy. But the colors are realy not that great, the menus, ergonomics, dust on sensor, small viewfinder and low resolution display, laggy interface... With the R5 on the horizon I think I can easily sell the A7R IV and get a camera that is equaly small for travel and offers as well a lot of resolution for productshots.

All in all I have close to zero doubts that I can replace ALL these cameras (1DX II, 5D IV, S1H, GH5, GH4, A7R IV) with just 2 (maybe one more as backup) Canon R5. This will be a great time, without adapting lenses, different batteries or accessories etc...

The most important lense in my collection is the 24-70 f2,8 L II. I do 80% of my work with this lense. Second most important lense is the 15-30 Tamron VC 2,8 - great for architecture, business photos, etc. My favorite lense is the 50mm Sigma Art 1,4 - best colors, sharpness, bokeh, build quality - truely a beautiful lense. One other important lense is the 70-200 2,8L - great for a lot of thinks, including portraits, productshots or event documentation

 

[BillB]

I'm a buyer at about $3500 US. I don't think Canon can sustain a price much higher than that for very long. There are just too many very capable cameras available at reasonable prices in the current market. Despite the impressive top-line video spec's, we have to assume those are going to come with some asterisks. And, as CR posters love to point out, the video market is thin. Video aside, it's going to be a pretty nice 45 MP MILC in a market where there are a number of very capable, competitively prices alternatives. Many with higher MP counts and presumably there will be more bodies coming to market long before we'll se a R5 Mark II.

The shift from the EF mount to the RF mount complicates things, but generally speaking, it is cheaper and easier to upgrade a camera within the same brand than it is to change brands. A lot of Canon owners who don’t want to pay the price of the R5 are not going to change brands, they are going to stand pat with what they have. So Canon’s challenge is not so much to stop people from jumping to Sony or Nikon as it is to convince Canon owners to buy an R5 (and there a lot of Canon owners out there to be convinced). Lower prices will sell more R5‘s but it is not so much about price competition with Sony and Nikon as it is about convincing Canon owners to upgrade.

 

[Starting out EOS R]

Thank you Jeah its somehow an addiction. But in my agency we do some different kind of work so somehow this collection turns out to be the best combination.
5D IV and 5D III was my bread and butter for everyday shooting, productshots, business-photos, Events and weddings. One day I got a 1DX II used because video became more and more important for my work - some nice event documentations and some imagefilms where shot on the 1DX II. Its also great for event and replaced the 5D III which I sold.
For some studio video work I grabed some Gh4 and gh5, which are very afordable used (400€ and 900€) but where great for studio work where we shoot all day long. Before that we used the 5D and 1D - but the FHD image is aweful and the 4k data rate was too much. So the GH4 and GH5 was a handy, cheap and very usefull adition for studio work with bright light and not moving subjects (so no AF needed and the bad ISO performance doesnt matter)
The 1D was replaced by the S1H which is INCREDIBLE good when it comes to image quality, codecs, ports, IBIS (!) and so on. Lowlight quality is truely remarkable. Though it was a bargain and I guess I will sell it in some time. The lack of usable AF is for me personaly quite annoying. Also I dont like the photos - so I expect it got no value over the R5. Same for the 1D - its a nice camera, but with the R5 I dont see any place for the 1D in my kit.
The A7R IV was bought out of curiosity - I used it a lot on travel where it certainly shines because of the size. Also for some productshots where the resolution comes in handy. But the colors are realy not that great, the menus, ergonomics, dust on sensor, small viewfinder and low resolution display, laggy interface... With the R5 on the horizon I think I can easily sell the A7R IV and get a camera that is equaly small for travel and offers as well a lot of resolution for productshots.

All in all I have close to zero doubts that I can replace ALL these cameras (1DX II, 5D IV, S1H, GH5, GH4, A7R IV) with just 2 (maybe one more as backup) Canon R5. This will be a great time, without adapting lenses, different batteries or accessories etc...

The most important lense in my collection is the 24-70 f2,8 L II. I do 80% of my work with this lense. Second most important lense is the 15-30 Tamron VC 2,8 - great for architecture, business photos, etc. My favorite lense is the 50mm Sigma Art 1,4 - best colors, sharpness, bokeh, build quality - truely a beautiful lense. One other important lense is the 70-200 2,8L - great for a lot of thinks, including portraits, productshots or event documentation

Interesting that your moving from a majority of DSLR's to a mirrorless. I just hope that the EVF lag has been reduced. I love my EOSR but tried shooting some ducks landing this afternoon and found it almost impossible to get a pin sharp image using an RF 70-200 at f2.8. The EVF refreshed behind the image so the ducks were never in the centre of the focus point.

I'll admit I mostly take landscapes and didn't buy the R for its fast shutter speed but hope the R5 with up to 20fps has an EVF that can keep up for the occasions I want shots of things that move.

Still want it though

 

[David - Sydney]

Anyone who took a “placeholder “ seriously...

Well, I did and on 21 Feb as well in Australia! It is fully refundable if I don't make a purchase at time of release.
Basically, I had a big trip planned with departure on 3-July. Clearly all cancelled now but given the expected release date in time for the Olympics then I could have just got it before the trip.

I had planned to move to RF eventually and since Canon Australia now has a 5 year warranty on lens/bodies, I have also purchased a RF70-200mm at a one-time 15% discount (and avoid possible negative exchange rate). A few months wouldn't make a big difference for me. I don't need a R5 but it would be more than good enough to prise my 5Div from my kit. Weight/size is(was) important as I traveled often with tricky flight weight/size restrictions. I am still concerned about it being too small as the 5Div is just right for my hands. A grip may be worthwhile although I haven't used one before.

If the price is crazy then I won't buy it at release and maybe get a EOS R second hand. I won't speculate about R5 (or RF 100-500mm) release price and will make a decision at the time. There is no downside for me as - thankfully - my employment hasn't been effected (yet).

People talk about exchange rates being mostly irrelevant in pricing in different markets may be true for some products. Apple had no issues to increase their macbook pro pricing by 10% in Australia recently due to exchange rates - very annoying!

Seriously, >160 posts about a clearly wrong price is surprising!!

 

[neurorx]

For those of you using the R for sports, is there much EVF lag? Do you have to significantly change your technique?

 

[Michael Clark]

My guess in €: 3.999 - 4.499

References:
5D III - 3.299 (2012)
5D IV - 4.065 (2016)
R - 3.499 (2018)
Z7 - 3.849 (2018)
A7R III - 3.499 (2017)

Lower Price because of corona, higher price because of strategy of increasing price with every new product.

And yet in the U.S., the 2012 5D Mark III and 2016 5D Mark IV rolled out at the exact same price: $3,499 USD.

The EOS R in 2018 was priced at $2,299 USD.

 

[unfocused]

For those of you using the R for sports, is there much EVF lag? Do you have to significantly change your technique?

I have tried to use the R for sports, but gave up as there were just too many compromises.

Yes, the EVF lag is a problem. But there are other problems in my opinion.

Using your thumb to select the autofocus point works brilliantly under most circumstances. But not for sports. I found it very difficult to follow the action using my thumb and the autofocus did not react quickly enough even if I could manage to position the autofocus point on the action.

The ergonomics of the R are such that the tiny and crammed buttons on the back make using back button autofocus very difficult. I ended up programming both the AF/ON button and * button for back button autofocus so that if I could hit either button it would focus. It helps a little, but it's still not as natural as a DSLR.

I expect that both of these issues will change with the R5, as it will have a joystick and it appears the backside of the body will have buttons placed similarly to the 5D.

However, I don't expect the R5 to be a great sports camera. I think even Canon believes that DSLRs will still be superior for fast action. My guess is that if you want a good all around camera and you occasionally shoot sports, the R5 will be fine. If you are shooting sports for pay, I believe a DSLR will still suit you better.

 

[Michael Clark]

It'll be $3300.00 a year after release. I didn't want to keep you in suspense for that long...

That likely depends on how long it takes production to catch up with demand at the introductory price.

It may also depend somewhat on how much the 2020 Olympics and other major sporting events in 2020 being delayed/canceled affects sales of the 1D Mark III. If a lot of potential 1D X Mark III buyers take a pass because they don't need them in 2020 and buy R5 bodies instead, it could keep the R5 price at MSRP for longer than would otherwise be the case.

I think the first big price drop (around $300-400) may not be until the Christmas 2021 shopping season at the very earliest. It may not be until early 2022.

 

[Michael Clark]

The difference between 30mp and 61mp when downsized to 1200 on the long side is irrelevant.


At same sized output and cropped the same (using the same lens) there is no reason for a MP difference to be detectable regarding sharpness, handheld or not. If the guy was getting more blur than you at the same sized output he was using a longer shutterspeed, nothing else, the mp numbers just don't come into the equation like you are implying.

Images are not more blurred because they have more pixels. Having more pixels enables you to get more resolution if you use techniques that realize that potential, fast enough shutter speed/exposure time, enough contrast, good lenses etc etc. You do not need a tripod to shoot 60mp images that have pixel level detail, but not all images shot with 60mp cameras will have as much detail as they could if optimal technique wasn't used.

Or maybe he was less steady holding his camera than you were.

 

[privatebydesign]

Or maybe he was less steady holding his camera than you were.

Either way it's not a pixel density issue, it is a shutter speed/stability issue.

 

[herein2020]

The difference between 30mp and 61mp when downsized to 1200 on the long side is irrelevant.

The difference is that one needs a tripod and one doesn't, my point was lugging around a tripod for a client that will never care that the image started out at 50MP+

At same sized output and cropped the same (using the same lens) there is no reason for a MP difference to be detectable regarding sharpness, handheld or not. If the guy was getting more blur than you at the same sized output he was using a longer shutterspeed, nothing else, the mp numbers just don't come into the equation like you are implying.

Images are not more blurred because they have more pixels. Having more pixels enables you to get more resolution if you use techniques that realize that potential, fast enough shutter speed/exposure time, enough contrast, good lenses etc etc. You do not need a tripod to shoot 60mp images that have pixel level detail, but not all images shot with 60mp cameras will have as much detail as they could if optimal technique wasn't used.

Everything I have ever read states that the higher the resolution sensor, the more perfect your technique has to be to prevent vibration which leads to blurriness. There are plenty of examples from reputable sources on that.


FStoppers

With Great Megapixels Come Great Responsibility: A Guide for New High Resolution Camera Owners

Larger images provide a world of options for photographers, but if you're not careful, more pixels could mean more problems. If you're one of the many photographers finding yourself with a new high resolution camera after the holidays, here's a guide to wrangling that newfound resolution. High...

fstoppers.com

And I quote: "Because high resolution cameras resolve greater detail, there's less wiggle room for camera shake. Subtle vibration not noticeable on a 24-megapixel camera system at 100 percent might be painfully obvious on a 50-megapixel system."

You did caveat your statement by saying same sized output and cropped the same, but pretty much every source available states higher MP cameras need to be on a tripod. Either way, doesn't matter to me, 30MP is more than enough for me, most of the time I wish it was less to save on storage space. If I get a client that needs more than 30MP I'll just rent a higher resolution camera body.

 

[Michael Clark]

Yeh that's why the 1DX III launched at $2,000 less than the MkII did!
Launch price:
MkII $5,999
MkIII $6,499

The original 1D X was launched in 2012 at $6,499 when the yen was at a historical high vs. the dollar at less than 80 yen per USD. (1D X = 520K yen)

Since mid-2014 the exchange rate has stayed fairly stable at between 100-120 yen per USD, with it mostly ranging from 105-110 over the past three years.

I think the dip to $5,999 (= 660K yen in mid-March 2016) in 2016 for the 1D X Mark II had more to do with market forces and the perceived superiority of the Nikon D5 vs the 1D X Mark II than the exchange rate. At the very least, the perception was that the D4 was still lagging behind the 1D X in terms of AF accuracy/consistency and that the D5 had at least caught up with, if not passed, Canon's 1D X Mark II.

After all, the 5D Mark III in 2012 and the 5D Mark IV in 2016 both debuted in the U.S at $3,499 USD (= 280K yen in 2012, = 385K yen in 2016).

 

[Michael Clark]

You can make statistics support any argument. Sweden has twice the mortality per population than the similarly sized and financed Switzerland, why would anybody hold up Sweden as an example for citizens health?

Personally I have been very fortunate in this whole thing but for those professing it was a huge overreaction by the lefties/cabal's/anti whoevers, I'd try saying that to the loved ones of the over 320,000 people who have died. I'd also like a decent explanation as to why in the richest country in the history of mankind that has less than 4% of the worlds population they account for over 31% of the infections worldwide even with the severe under testing, and if that country has the greatest health care system in the world for it's citizens why does that <4% account for 29% of the worlds fatalities?

Three primary things can point to a lot of the answer to your question:

1) Not every country is counting/reporting cases and deaths the same. Especially in countries with totalitarian governments, almost no one ever officially dies due to anything that can reflect poorly on that county's public health system and policies.

2) Americans are notoriously committed to individualism in a way that most other cultures are not. When the government tells everyone to do anything, a certain portion of Americans will do the opposite just to prove the "government can't control me", even if compliance with the government mandate would be in their better interest. In most countries the vast majority of folks go along with what their government tells them to do.

3) Americans tend to institutionalize a higher percentage of our old and infirm citizens. People also tend to live longer with chronic health conditions in the U.S. than in many other places, which means we have a higher percentage of our population that is vulnerable to the SARS-CoV-2 virus. The U.S. also has the highest incarceration rate of any industrialized nation. And our institutions also tend to be larger, on the basis of population per each location, than in other countries. Many of the cases and deaths in the United States have been concentrated in such institutions.

 

[Michael Clark]

Saying that, I do think the camera will have a high price. Other consideration to make is to see the recent past and look to the 1dx mkIII. It came out with a price bump of 1000€ in comparison with the launching price of the 1dx mkII. So we can expect that Canon will make a slight bump considering the "references" of prices in the market.

The 1D X was $6,499 USD
The 1D X Mark II was $5,999 USD at a time when the yen was at an all time high versus the USD
The 1D X Mark III was $6,499 USD

It's my observation that the drop in price for the 1D X Mark II compared to both the 1D X and the 1D X Mark III was mostly due to the existence of the Nikon D5, which was perceived to be the only Nikon D1/2/3/4/5 series to have better AF than the concurrent Canon 1-Series. It didn't hurt that in 2016 $5,999 USD bought 660K yen, compared to the 520K yen that $6,499 USD could buy in 2012.

In 2020, the Nikon D6 is an afterthought compared to the 1D X Mark III, and the return to pricing it at $6,499, like the 1D X, reflects that.

 

[privatebydesign]

The difference is that one needs a tripod and one doesn't, my point was lugging around a tripod for a client that will never care that the image started out at 50MP+

But that is simply not true.

Everything I have ever read states that the higher the resolution sensor, the more perfect your technique has to be to prevent vibration which leads to blurriness. There are plenty of examples from reputable sources on that.


FStoppers

http://[URL][URL]https://fstoppers....ility-guide-new-high-resolution-camera-322188

[/URL][/URL]


And I quote: "Because high resolution cameras resolve greater detail, there's less wiggle room for camera shake. Subtle vibration not noticeable on a 24-megapixel camera system at 100 percent might be painfully obvious on a 50-megapixel system."

You need to read better, I have underlined and put in bold the important bit. At 100 percent for a higher mp sensor means more enlargement, enlarge anything more and you get less dof and more camera movement. That is the only difference between a 24mp sensor image and a 50mp image both viewed at 100%, the 50mp image is over twice the size of the 24mp image, view them at the same actual size and any sharpness is the same given the same sensor size and camera settings.

The caveat is the key, same size image, same sized blur.

 

[Michael Clark]

You have a lot great gears bro. I would love to see your lens collection

Lenses? Who's got any money left for buying lenses?

 

[Starting out EOS R]

Well, I did and on 21 Feb as well in Australia! It is fully refundable if I don't make a purchase at time of release.
Basically, I had a big trip planned with departure on 3-July. Clearly all cancelled now but given the expected release date in time for the Olympics then I could have just got it before the trip.

I had planned to move to RF eventually and since Canon Australia now has a 5 year warranty on lens/bodies, I have also purchased a RF70-200mm at a one-time 15% discount (and avoid possible negative exchange rate). A few months wouldn't make a big difference for me. I don't need a R5 but it would be more than good enough to prise my 5Div from my kit. Weight/size is(was) important as I traveled often with tricky flight weight/size restrictions. I am still concerned about it being too small as the 5Div is just right for my hands. A grip may be worthwhile although I haven't used one before.

If the price is crazy then I won't buy it at release and maybe get a EOS R second hand. I won't speculate about R5 (or RF 100-500mm) release price and will make a decision at the time. There is no downside for me as - thankfully - my employment hasn't been effected (yet).

People talk about exchange rates being mostly irrelevant in pricing in different markets may be true for some products. Apple had no issues to increase their macbook pro pricing by 10% in Australia recently due to exchange rates - very annoying!

Seriously, >160 posts about a clearly wrong price is surprising!!

I'm embarrassed to say that I was one of the 'muppets' who reacted to the price leak after seeing it on Tech Radar. I was sceptical but in my defence, the specs of the R5 are almost on a par with the 1DX MKIII so whilst a huge disappointment, I could sort of understand it. However after thinking about this, I was being a little naive, especially after Canon had said the R5 was a 5D MKIV equivalent. Hindsight is a wonderful thing lol.

I have absolutely no idea on what the price will be. Like you, I'm incredibly lucky as my income hasn't been affected and I know what I will go up to but I'm no longer going to speculate as it's pointless as you have said.

There have been a few comments on the size of the R5 compared to the 5D MKIV and as someone who moved from a 7D MKII to an R, I found it very easy to adapt. The weight reduction and smaller size is brilliant, especially for travelling.

I don't use a grip and have no issues with buttons being harder to access compared to the 7D and like you I recently bought an RF 70-200MM at a good discount and love how it doesn't feel unbalanced even without the grip or collar.

It looks like the R5 is a little chunkier around the grip so this should all be to the good. I think with a little use, you will love how it feels compared to the 5D MKIV.

 

[Quarkcharmed]

view them at the same actual size and any sharpness is the same given the same sensor size and camera settings.

Same scene shot simultaneously will be sharper on a 50mp camera than a 24mp camera, after you downsample the 50mp image to 24mp.

 

[Deleted member 381342]

For those of you using the R for sports, is there much EVF lag? Do you have to significantly change your technique?

I use my 90D for wildlife which has the faster moving subjects of sports for the most part. But I did try my Nikon z6(my mirrorless tester) and I found the EVF was ok if just a fraction of a second off, but in both high and high+ (9 fps 14bit RAW) I was getting keepers. However, the reason I am sticking to DSLR and will be replacing the 90D with a 1d body and not a R5 is the sleep. To save battery you basically back the EVF on for 5 minutes at most so it is ready and this means you can miss something while the camera wakes up and you aren't able to just set focus on target and peak every now and then.

As a point and shoot, indoor camera, and event camera; I think mirrorless are great. It is lovely to see your exposure and have things like EYE AF to get the best out of fast primes. But for sports and especially wildlife, I am going to be sticking to DSLR for the next decade which will mean going into mirrorless on the 3rd generation of 1 series bodies and maybe 2nd gen of RF lenses.

 

[Sporgon]

Same scene shot simultaneously will be sharper on a 50mp camera than a 24mp camera, after you downsample the 50mp image to 24mp.

That's true because interpolation down has a sharpening effect. So apply same (small) amount of USM to the 24 mp and they're the same again.