Rumored Canon EOS M7 camera specifications, and the end of the line for EOS M? [CR1]

[SteveC]

It is now clear that Canon is in the process of ending all EF based product lines. That means EF, EF-S AND EF-M.

Simply put, EF is too slow for modern cameras.

It is a pity that the rumors/leaks/plants don't give us a timeline for how quickly Canon will end R&D for EF.

RF is the way of the future.

EF-M cameras can give you 14 frames per second.

 

[SteveC]

Sure, you could put EF lenses on EF-S bodies, but that was only rarely useful.

Why "rarely useful"? If people are going to complain that few EF-S lenses were ever made, that was the answer--grab an EF lens and use it!

In fact the 7D has an EF-S mount and EF big whites got used (and continue to get used) a lot on it.

 

[Stu_bert]

But they could improve the amount of movement that it compensates for once they reach the limit of time/stops that are possible.

Also, the stops of stabilization are designed toward the test that measures them, not necessarily real life where 8 stops becomes 4-5 in practice. I still think they have some room to improve performance before hitting the theoretical limits, at least with full frame and APS-C.

Too complex for me, here’s the DPR thread and both the article link and Olympus links are in there...

Earth’s Rotation Limits IBIS to 6.3 Stops: Micro Four Thirds Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Expert news, reviews and videos of the latest digital cameras, lenses, accessories, and phones. Get answers to your questions in our photography forums.

www.dpreview.com

 

[Stu_bert]

If you go back to the original interview, it is not entirely clear if he was being serious or not. The interview contains some banter, which makes me think he could've gone for "account for butterflies flapping their wings across the ocean" as well to describe that doing more than 6.5 stops is very difficult.
And I also don't know if those 6.5 stops were CIPA stops or actual, real world stops.

The article shared suggests 6.5 and yes he doesn’t know how CIPA calculates it. So yes, CIPA stops are not real world but we’re also appearing to reach limits cause any IS system hasn’t advanced massively in the past decade..

Anyway, it was just a distraction from the current thread which has again reached its conclusion like all the rumours do - consensus is split and we don’t know what Canon has planned...

 

[Sibir Lupus]

It is now clear that Canon is in the process of ending all EF based product lines. That means EF, EF-S AND EF-M.

Simply put, EF is too slow for modern cameras.

It is a pity that the rumors/leaks/plants don't give us a timeline for how quickly Canon will end R&D for EF.

RF is the way of the future.

Seeing as there's rumors about a new M50, M5 Mark II/M7 and rumors of NEW EF-M lenses coming soon, your line about Canon ending the EF-M system doesn't hold water. And what technical analysis has been done to state that EF is "to slow for modern cameras"?

 

[unfocused]

Sure, you could put EF lenses on EF-S bodies, but that was only rarely useful.

Why "rarely useful"? If people are going to complain that few EF-S lenses were ever made, that was the answer--grab an EF lens and use it!

In fact the 7D has an EF-S mount and EF big whites got used (and continue to get used) a lot on it.

Exactly. The only issue with using EF lenses on an APS-C body was at the wide end. But between Canon and third party manufacturers there were sufficient choices for most users. The Tokina 11-20 f2.8 is an excellent wide angle and the Canon 15-85 covers a wider range than the 24-105. For telephoto, there are plenty of EF choices and you get more reach for less money.

 

[Stu_bert]

Much like M43, the EOS M line sells very well, and yet, pundits keep wishing it away for some reason. Canon never intended M to be a professional system. That seems to bother people.

And no, you can't put an M lens on an RF body, but you could never put an EF-S lens on an EF body either. Sure, you could put EF lenses on EF-S bodies, but that was only rarely useful. And you can still put EF or EF-S on M or RF.

So when I purchased my 10d then 20d and 40d until the 5 came out you think I, and others went out and replaced our ef lenses with ef-s ones?

 

[Andy Westwood]

As the advancing cameras on smartphones continue to improve the demand for compact and some DSLR type cameras mirrorless included sadly continues to diminish.

We might not be seeing the end of crop sensor cameras just yet, but I suspect the range of models will reduce as demand lessens.

I think there is still a good market for cameras such as the M50 M200 and even the M6 II. Personally, I enjoy my M5 although I don’t really use it much these days.

I would buy an improved EOS-M body, but it will need to have much improved AF to my current M5 and have a twisty flippy screen and be compact.

Would anyone really spend $1600 on a 1.6 crop sensor camera these days!

 

[shawn]

Another point of contention is pricing. People seem to think they will get an R mount 7D replacement at a significantly lower price point than either the R6 or R5. I have my doubts.

Personally, I have serious doubts that Canon will want to repeat the confusion of the past by offering APS-C bodies in the RF mount. I think they may very well be over the idea of a high end APS-C body in their full frame mount. Suggesting that really upsets some folks.

I agree, Canon made a mistake with the EOS 7D series... they never should have released it. Now the expectation from some customers is that they should be able to get high end performance from a low end price point, just because of APS-C. I think this expectation is outmoded in 2020 which is especially true when you look at the R6 specs. An APS-C R7 could happen but I doubt it because the R6 is too good at it's current price point. The R6 compares very favorably to a lot of high end cameras including cameras in Canon's own lineup. I'm sure a lot of people have noticed that it's very much a competitor to an A9 II for almost half the price. If Canon did an R7 would it be 32MP? Probably. That would put it in a weird spot in terms of market expectations. How do you price an R7 with the same capabilities of an R6 but with a higher megapixel sensor? Would it be the same price? If so, people will throw fits. IMO the R7 is a losing proposition for Canon if it has to be cheaper than the R6, and I don't think the market will like the R7 at the same price as the R6, and they certainly won't like an R7 with reduced capabilities vs the R6... Ultimately the question becomes, why do an R7 at all? APS-C vs FF, you'll actually get more detail at higher ISO's with a FF camera so the advantage of APS-C having more pixels on subject is kind of erased unless you always shoot at really low ISO's. With the new RF600 and RF800 it's looking like high ISO performance is the future for Canon cameras. Plus, many people shoot wildlife with the 1Dx series and do great with it.

Anyway, I think these 7D loving APS-C holdouts are just going to have to accept that the R6 is the camera Canon has come up with for them.

 

[-pekr-]

Much like M43, the EOS M line sells very well, and yet, pundits keep wishing it away for some reason. Canon never intended M to be a professional system. That seems to bother people.

And no, you can't put an M lens on an RF body, but you could never put an EF-S lens on an EF body either. Sure, you could put EF lenses on EF-S bodies, but that was only rarely useful. And you can still put EF or EF-S on M or RF.

Rarely useful? Like tonnes of ppl using 70-200s on their APS-C DSLRs? The only thing in this thread rarely useful is the M commando defending the inevitable.

 

[SteveC]

Anyway, I think these 7D loving APS-C holdouts are just going to have to accept that the R6 is the camera Canon has come up with for them.

Although I am not by any means an advocate for an R7, there's no way the 7D folks are going to accept 7MP on their targets after cropping. The (recent) mistake, IMHO was making the R6 with such a low-res sensor, it should have been 30 MP or so.

Realistically, their replacement as far as capability is concerned is actually the R5 run in crop mode. Unfortunately, it's quite pricey.

 

[stevelee]

Canon obviously realizes they are doomed, and therefore are ending the M, EF, EF-S, and RF lines.

 

[CombatWombat]

I own a Canon 6D Mark II with six EF-mount lenses. It's my Big Boy Camera, the one I'll use when I set out on a specific photo project. But on most days I grab my M50 as I head out the door. It's not perfect (actually at times it can be a bit frustrating), but I love its size, and its photo quality works just fine for most subjects (I have the kit lens and the 55-200mm telephoto zoom).With my Fotodiox EF-M adapter, I can mount any of my EF lenses and make use of an effective tele-extension because of the camera's smaller sensor. I'd be very interested in an M50 Mark II or M7 camera, and I hope Canon chooses to keep and expand the M line rather than shutting it down. Perhaps it has been underdeveloped by Canon over the years, but I think a wise move would be to keep the M cameras for APS-C fans and let full-frame lovers explore the R line. One thing that endears me to Canon (after many disappointments over the decades) is that I expect to use many of my EF-mount lenses with an EF-R adapter whenever the company makes an R camera that says "buy me - now!" The R6 is close but needs a bit more resolution before I move in that direction.

 

[Baron_Karza]

Most current EOS M buyers, or Fuji APS-C buyers, for that matter, are not the kind of buyer that plans to transition to anything anytime soon. They've already bought the only camera they want for the foreseeable future.

My gf wanted a good camera. So I got her a Sony A6000 (at the time, the best camera I owned was a T3i).
That camera overheated in 1080. I felt bad. So a 3 years later got her a A6400, even though she said she is fine with the 6000.
The is just one case, but I am sure there are many others that will be fine with their Crop camera and likely never want another. If anything, most will leave their CROP for their cell phones (I know a bunch of people who've done that the past 2 years, with some saying "It's just as good").

My opinion: It's USUALLY a small group of enthusiasts like us that are not these forums that upgrade more often than most CROP camera owners. The majority of all camera owners will leave crop cameras for cell phones.

Curious...what does "M" stand for in these M series cameras?
Mini?
Micro?
Medium?
Massive?

 

[TAF]

What do you suppose the possibilities are of them discontinuing it in some markets where it hasn't done that well?

That's how I got my original 'M'.

 

[SteveC]

That's how I got my original 'M'.

I presume by this you mean you got it on closeout?

I think I mentioned watching someone, about a week before the R5 came out, buying an M6 (not a mark II) at my brick and mortar. Perhaps he got it for cheap because it's supposedly obsolete. But it looked like his firsts M camera since he also bought an adapter with it (no lenses other than (perhaps) the kit lens).

 

[bbasiaga]

Why "rarely useful"? If people are going to complain that few EF-S lenses were ever made, that was the answer--grab an EF lens and use it!

In fact the 7D has an EF-S mount and EF big whites got used (and continue to get used) a lot on it.

This is my internet chuckle moment for the day....countless threads about how Canon is letting people down by not producing a high pixel density/7D2 replacement camera, and here is a statement that the use case so fervently searching for an upgrade path is 'rarely useful'. Gotta love internet reality. Only your own is the true one and it applies to everyone else in the world. If they cant' see that, its THEIR problem.

-Brian

 

[koenkooi]

I presume by this you mean you got it on closeout?

I think I mentioned watching someone, about a week before the R5 came out, buying an M6 (not a mark II) at my brick and mortar. Perhaps he got it for cheap because it's supposedly obsolete. But it looked like his firsts M camera since he also bought an adapter with it (no lenses other than (perhaps) the kit lens).

About a week before my honeymoon (2013) the M+22mm kit dropped from €800 to €250 and the firmware with the improved AF had been released. I'm really glad that I bought it, the M+22mm was so much easier to bring along everywhere compared to the 7D + 24-105.

 

[Chig]

To sell cameras and make money. And they have.

What I meant was why did Canon make a mount that was incompatible with their FF mirrorless system ?
Makes no sense as surely they were already planning the R system

 

[bbasiaga]

What I meant was why did Canon make a mount that was incompatible with their FF mirrorless system ?
Makes no sense as surely they were already planning the R system

Maybe so they could get a system that is capable of being smaller and lighter than what the R and EF systems can do?

-Brian