Is a Canon EOS R100 coming next year? A budget EOS R APS-C camera [CR1]

[reefroamer]

Canon is making a lot of low resolution cameras. They must have a ton of low resolution sensors in inventory or orders they were committed to. The Z9 revolution really caught Canon off guard.

Canon will probably sell a lot more R10s than Nikon will sell Z9s. Based on price alone.

 

[John Wilde]

EOS M is dead. Long live EOS M.

Things look bleak, but a [CR1] rumor never killed anything. It's just a rumor created by a "unknown or anonymous source".

 

[neuroanatomist]

CR won't be happy until M is dead.

I do find it interesting that when the M6 II was discontinued in two countries (it's still widely available globally), it made front page news here on CR:

Canon has discontinued the Canon EOS M6 Mark II

We have received reports from two different countries that the Canon EOS M6 Mark II has been discontinued. There will obviously be inventory in various stores a

www.canonrumors.com

However, when a Canon regional CEO (for China, so not a small region) stated in an interview that, "The EOS M Series accounts for about 30% of Canon’s total camera sales...it is unlikely that the M series will not be upgraded in the future," the CR home page didn't mention it.

I'm not a fan of biased reporting, from any source.

Things look bleak, but a [CR1] rumor never killed anything. It's just a rumor created by a "unknown or anonymous source".

Given that a senior Canon exec said a future upgrade to the M series is likely, it's not bleak at all.

Having said that, I can certainly see Canon pushing the M series even more toward the consumer side, i.e., we see updates to the M200 and M50, but no M5II or M6III.

 

[josephandrews222]

Every year I go on a multi-day backcountry hiking trip. Early on I carried a 5D Mark II, then a 5DsR with a telephoto, macro, and a wide angle lens. As I got older I wanted my weight down, but I didn't want to compromise quality. I eventually went with a SL1 which created some saleable images for me, but I hated the noise at higher ISOs.

I resisted going in on the M series for quite some time because I felt that Canon just didn't offer the lens lineup I needed. Finally, I went in on an M5 just because every ounce counts when hiking. I picked up the 11-22, 18-150, 55-200. The 11-22 is pretty good, I'm not really a fan of the others. My biggest use case for my cameras is landscape so the wider the better. I got pretty good at stitching M5 images while the camera was balanced on a trekking pole. Here is an example of that.

Mirror Lake Reflections - Scenic Landscape, Nature and Wildlife Photography

I wanted to choose a backcountry site that was more out of the way than during my previous trips to Rocky Mountain National Park. Mirror Lake is generally accessible from the far northwestern corner of the park which is a couple hour drive from Trail Ridge. From there it was about a 5-6 mile...

www.journeyoflight.com

I then found the Laowa 9mm and fell in love with wide angle all over again. I picked up the M6 II which I think is a very capable camera and so easy to pull out and capture images. In fact, I frequently have my 5DsR on a tripod with my 11-24 f/4l and I grab the M6 with the Laowa and capture better images because I'm unburdened by the weight.

While I like the R line, for me it's going backwards on the weight a tad. I know it's lighter and very capable (I own an R5 and have preordered an R7), but the M series had brought back a little of the fun for me. Plus it has the quality I need to create saleable images. If the M line dies, so be it, my M6 II and Laowa will continue to function regardless. With that being said, I personally would love to see the M series continue in some form.

In the end, if I have to choose water over a camera, I'll choose water every time. The M series just enabled me to have a camera and still go quite a distance on my hikes while capturing some memorable images.

"While I like the R line, for me it's going backwards on the weight a tad. I know it's lighter and very capable (I own an R5 and have preordered an R7), but the M series had brought back a little of the fun for me. Plus it has the quality I need to create saleable images. If the M line dies, so be it, my M6 II and Laowa will continue to function regardless. With that being said, I personally would love to see the M series continue in some form."

This.

 

[unfocused]

Is the R10 not entry level enough?

R10 with kit lens: $1,099
M50 II with kit lens: $700

M200 with kit lens: $549

T7 with kit lens: $479

Just illustrating that for price conscious consumers, the Rebel DSLRs remain the best option. Canon will decide the fate of both formats based on sales and whether or not they believe they can transition people to the R mount. Right now, both represent too large of a market for Canon to arbitrarily kill off either one.

 

[entoman]

I wouldn't blame EOS-M owners for being disgruntled but it seems fair to point out that there was reason to be skeptical about the system from the start, which is why people have been predicting the system's demise from the day it was introduced. It seemed intentionally limited to protect Canon's DSLR line—a typical Canon move.

Do you really believe that? It seems to me that the target audience for comparably priced DSLRs (Rebels) is and has always been a completely different group of people, so there has been no need to protect one from the other.

A generalisation I know, and there are definitely exceptions, but I would have thought that the majority of M buyers primarily wanted a stylish, compact *pocketable* camera; whereas the majority of Rebel buyers are probably of an older generation, many brought up on film SLRs, and happy to use a larger and less fashionable DSLR.

Rebel buyers also differ in that they want access to a much wider range of lenses - they may only have one or two lenses, but those could be optics such as macros or long telezooms that Canon never intended to be put on a little M.

 

[neuroanatomist]

T7 with kit lens: $479

Just illustrating that for price conscious consumers, the Rebel DSLRs remain the best option. Canon will decide the fate of both formats based on sales and whether or not they believe they can transition people to the R mount. Right now, both represent too large of a market for Canon to arbitrarily kill off either one.

Which is why, in the interview I linked above, the same exec stated that DSLRs comprise 40% of Canon’s total camera sales.

 

[mdcmdcmdc]

However, when a Canon regional CEO (for China, so not a small region) stated in an interview that, "The EOS M Series accounts for about 30% of Canon’s total camera sales...it is unlikely that the M series will not be upgraded in the future," the CR home page didn't mention it.

Very interesting. Thanks for posting that link!

 

[AlanF]

I do find it interesting that when the M6 II was discontinued in two countries (it's still widely available globally), it made front page news here on CR:

Canon has discontinued the Canon EOS M6 Mark II

We have received reports from two different countries that the Canon EOS M6 Mark II has been discontinued. There will obviously be inventory in various stores a

www.canonrumors.com

However, when a Canon regional CEO (for China, so not a small region) stated in an interview that, "The EOS M Series accounts for about 30% of Canon’s total camera sales...it is unlikely that the M series will not be upgraded in the future," the CR home page didn't mention it.

I'm not a fan of biased reporting, from any source.


Given that a senior Canon exec said a future upgrade to the M series is likely, it's not bleak at all.

Having said that, I can certainly see Canon pushing the M series even more toward the consumer side, i.e., we see updates to the M200 and M50, but no M5II or M6III.

Interesting that in the interview he said that the R7 and R10 are not aimed at young people so it is good Canon is catering for us oldies!

 

[David - Sydney]

R10 with kit lens: $1,099
M50 II with kit lens: $700

The obvious way to reduce the cost is to remove the EVF a la M200... even if it doesn't hit the M200 price point

 

[David - Sydney]

Like @Czardoom I get a little tired of these closed-loop rumors that simply repost unsubstantiated rumors from other sites. I guess it is too much to expect that anyone is going to practice actual journalism and do some research to sort out the facts from fiction. Much easier and more profitable to just post clickbait.

It is CR1 so feel free to speculate.. at least the post had a rating this time.
"practise actual journalism" in a rumours site? If so, then the spelling and grammar quality should be improved!
There have been purely speculative posts in the past to drum up some interest and fantasy specs

 

[Bob Howland]

Continue reading...

One thing that has always puzzled me is why, if small M-system size is so important, Canon never seemed to optimize the m-system for vloggers. For one thing, I've always expected a 15 f/2 lens from Canon.

 

[Jasonmc89]

I think we’ll end up seeing the full range of cameras in RF mount the same as it was with EF. Canons EF mount ecosystem did eeeeeextremely well.. and it if ain’t broke..

 

[mdcmdcmdc]

I wouldn't blame EOS-M owners for being disgruntled but it seems fair to point out that there was reason to be skeptical about the system from the start, which is why people have been predicting the system's demise from the day it was introduced. It seemed intentionally limited to protect Canon's DSLR line—a typical Canon move. No one could look at the EOS-M lineup and reasonably believe that it was the future of Canon mirrorless once DSLRs sunsetted. Since its introduction, people who have bought into the system have vacillated between defiantly pointing out that the system isn't dead and blaming anyone who predicts its demise as the cause of it. The bottom line is that the elimination of EOS-M makes more sense now than it did the day it was introduced. I don't wish for it but I don't think anyone should be surprised if it happens—and good luck getting any compensation from Canon.

As an aside, it is an interesting and telling detail that EOS-M was designed by the PowerShot team. I hadn't read that before.

The EOS M was never intended to be "the future of Canon mirrorless once DSLRs sunsetted" or any such lofty market-speak. For one thing, the EOS M was and is a consumer product, generally not aimed at the type of people who like to hang out in internet photography forums talking about its future direction. The characteristics you mention are only of consequence to photo equipment enthusiasts who buy M bodies to supplement their EF and R system, not non-photo enthusiast consumers.

In my view, the EOS M was Canon's effort to "get their feet wet" in mirrorless. Canon recognized that Sony and Panasonic were doing gangbuster business in compact mirrorless ILC's, so the M was an attempt to address that marketplace and learn about mirrorless cameras and the marketplace in the real world in a low-risk and low-visibility way, before bringing it to their main enthusiast and professional EOS line. Had they not done the M first and gone straight to the R, things might not have gone so smoothly for either Canon or their customers.

The only people who are disgruntled are those who believe an M body should be an R6 at 1/4 the price.

 

[David - Sydney]

No more or less disgruntled than current DSLR users. Most M users aren’t on forums. Most use their cameras and when they don’t work anymore, they’ll see what’s new on the market and have maybe a kit lens and a prime to replace. But I expect our M6II will last for years before any of this becomes any kind of concern at my house. I also expect Canon will continue to service it if needed. Some of the hand wringing reads as though people think their M cameras will one day all just shut down for good overnight.

The M6ii has been discontinued in a couple of markets. Australia is probably not a significant market but Japan has also discontinued as per
https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/t...ed-the-canon-eos-m6-mark-ii.41422/post-931262
and
https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/t...ed-the-canon-eos-m6-mark-ii.41422/post-931367
Clearly the cameras will continue to work for many years to come.
Note that the M6ii was the only canon APS-c that had the most pixels on duck aka reach with 14fps. The ergonomics weren't great with EF big whites though
The M6ii is the closest model to the R7/10 though

 

[David - Sydney]

I do find it interesting that when the M6 II was discontinued in two countries (it's still widely available globally), it made front page news here on CR:

Canon has discontinued the Canon EOS M6 Mark II

We have received reports from two different countries that the Canon EOS M6 Mark II has been discontinued. There will obviously be inventory in various stores a

www.canonrumors.com

However, when a Canon regional CEO (for China, so not a small region) stated in an interview that, "The EOS M Series accounts for about 30% of Canon’s total camera sales...it is unlikely that the M series will not be upgraded in the future," the CR home page didn't mention it.

I'm not a fan of biased reporting, from any source.


Given that a senior Canon exec said a future upgrade to the M series is likely, it's not bleak at all.

Having said that, I can certainly see Canon pushing the M series even more toward the consumer side, i.e., we see updates to the M200 and M50, but no M5II or M6III.

From the interview (thanks for posting), it isn't clear if the Canon exec is talking from a global sales level or only his market ie China. Is also isn't clear if he is talking from sales units or sales revenue.

Canon China will have a different sales picture than most developed countries. We can debate China's "developing" status wrt WTO separately but generally middle class incomes range from USD7,250 to USD62,500 (RMB 60,000 to 500,000) per year. Middle class defined defined as spending USD10-50/day and represents >700 million people. Lower income would not be consumers of photographs or camera buyers except for camera phones.

I wish that forums would utilise the language skills of its members to translate better than google translate as the subtleties are lost which can be important... or at least confirm the overall messages.

 

[David - Sydney]

Personally, a RPii would be of more interest. It is 3 years old now and used the spare parts bin (6 year old 6Dii sensor) that was perfect at the time but looking dated now except for the price.
Removing the EVF in particular would mean an easy choice to have a backup R mount body that handles wide angle lenses.

 

[neuroanatomist]

From the interview (thanks for posting), it isn't clear if the Canon exec is talking from a global sales level or only his market ie China. Is also isn't clear if he is talking from sales units or sales revenue.

Canon China will have a different sales picture than most developed countries. We can debate China's "developing" status wrt WTO separately but generally middle class incomes range from USD7,250 to USD62,500 (RMB 60,000 to 500,000) per year. Middle class defined defined as spending USD10-50/day and represents >700 million people. Lower income would not be consumers of photographs or camera buyers except for camera phones.

I wish that forums would utilise the language skills of its members to translate better than google translate as the subtleties are lost which can be important... or at least confirm the overall messages.

I believe the reference to, “Canon’s total camera sales,” means all of Canon globally and is about unit sales. That’s consistent with the CIPA data on DSLR vs. MILC units, manufacturer market share, and Canon’s financial reports. In other words, Canon publishes their ILC unit sales, CIPA publishes ILC units shipped across all manufacturers broken down by DSLR vs. MILC, Canon and Nikon are the only two major DSLR makers, and from those numbers it can be deduced that about 40% of Canon’s global unit ILCs sales are DSLRs, which is the figure given in the interview.

I previously estimated DSLRs as a bit less than 50% of Canon’s ILC sales, whereas the exec is talking about total camera sales (20% R, 30% M, 40% DSLR, and thus 10% P&S).

 

[chasingrealness]

Well, “100” obviously stands for 100MP so this must be the pixel monster we have all been waiting for. A 100MP crop sensor camera with a FF equivalent of 256MP in a body the size of an M50.

 

[SnowMiku]

14fps sounds good for an R100, but it will probably come with a small buffer you can only use for a second. I'd be happy for a slower option say 7fps or so and get more time. I say keep the viewfinder on the R100 because for me the viewfinder is easier to use for wildlife but can understand if they removed it due to cost.

I am not disgruntled about the M series and I own an M5 with the 18-150mm. If the M5 dies I'll either get it fixed or buy another M camera used, or if an R100 comes out by then I could always sell the EF-M 18-150mm and buy the RF-S equivalent.