More features coming to Canon EOS R5 in future firmware [CR2]

[blobmonster]

I'm in the market for a new camera, either the R6II, R5 II or perhaps a Sony if they were to release something with a nicer grip. I'm already quite heavily invested in Canon EF though.

Perhaps the only thing that would make me buy an R5 over the R6II is the implementation of OVF assist and/or the new auto-focusing technology from the R6 II including the auto choose nearest eye feature and the general improvements in stickiness. I doubt they'll come until the Mark II.

I would also likely miss the new hot-shoe in future, so far Canon has not released much interesting for it. Still waiting on a better quality or smaller microphone, and a tiny battery-less fill flash, but hopefully it will come in time. Sony has two good microphones, a small one and a good quality one. Not sure they have a fill flash yet though...

I'd love to try a new VR lens (maybe they will release a cheaper version?) so the R5 has some appeal there, however it would be very appealing if some basic processing can be done in camera. Moreover I think you can still use it with the R6II and upres the files?

If you don't already have one, then the R5 is a frustrating proposition in the current market imo, where the R6II has better AF and the OVF sim EVF, and we expect a new R5II any day with potentially crashing used prices as pros sell their mark I R5s. I'd much rather have an R3 personally, but I'm not a full-timer so want something smaller...

 

[neuroanatomist]

I would also likely miss the new hot-shoe in future, so far Canon has not released much interesting for it. Still waiting on a better quality or smaller microphone...

Have you seen this? It's designed for the new multifunction shoe.

Stereo Microphone DM-E1D

Digital signal output suppresses noise. 3 types of directivity: Shotgun, 90°, and 120°. No battery needed. Easy setup and controls.

www.usa.canon.com

I haven't used one, and likely won't as I don't shoot video on my R3. I do have the DM-100 for my Vixia HF G60 camcorder, and it works quite well.

 

[cayenne]

They might, but it’s going to be one hell of an expensive camera. Can’t see how they can keep the price lower than an R3 with that type of sensor and the amount of processing required to push those megapixels, the buffer required alone will push a processor to the extremes.
61 mp at raw would be maybe 50+ MB files?
At 40 fps the cf express card would have to be able to write 2GB of sustained data a second.
See where I am going with this? The amount of tech required to make this work will logically be something put in the R1, not the R5ii.
And if they did do something more impressive in the R1 and you predict this in a $5000-7000 R5ii correctly, then what will replace the price gap from a:
R6ii - $2500
R5 - $3700
R3- $6000

These specs for an R5ii do not fit well when you consider the price it would have to sell for. If it’s cheaper than an R3, then why would I buy an R3?

Why would it be so difficult.
Look at the Fuji GFX100S...digital 100mp medium format, BSI sensor, etc. In the $6K range and that's a bit older camera.
I can't imagine it would be out of bounds to think the R5 II couldn't have all this and more....?

 

[TonyG]

Why would it be so difficult.
Look at the Fuji GFX100S...digital 100mp medium format, BSI sensor, etc. In the $6K range and that's a bit older camera.
I can't imagine it would be out of bounds to think the R5 II couldn't have all this and more....?

It is not about being difficult, we are all just speculating here. But how do you go from a $3700 R5 to a $6000 R5ii. What will Canon offer between the $2500 R6 and the $6000 R3?
I am just speaking logically here and forgive me if my math is wrong but:
The Fuji is Medium Format, so at 100 MP, the pixel desnsity is 43.8mm x 32.9mm = 1441.02 / 102000000 = 0.0000141 mm per pixel.

The R5 is Full Frame so at 45 MP, the pixel density is 36.0mm x 24.0mm = 864mm / 45000000 = 0.0000192 mm per pixel
The A7Rv (for giggles) is 61 MP, the pixel density is 35.7mm x 23.8mm = 849.66mm / 61000000 = 0.0000139 mm per pixel

See where I am going with this?
I am not sure if it is even possible with today's technology to get 100MP in such a tiny 36x24 Full Frame sensor size as all these models seem to be at around the same pixel density to the Medium Format. It currently looks like 14 nm is as tiny as possible to manufacture.

Also, I am no fuji expert, but it looks like it can only shoot 5 frames per second compared to the R5 being capable of shooting 20? Is that really what the R5ii should strive to become? A high MP slow camera?

 

[entoman]

Purple monkey dishwasher

Sorry but I haven't got a clue what you're referring to. What on Earth is a "Purple monkey dishwasher" and how is it relevant to anything?

 

[neuroanatomist]

Sorry but I haven't got a clue what you're referring to. What on Earth is a "Purple monkey dishwasher" and how is it relevant to anything?

Urban Dictionary: purple monkey dishwasher

Despite claims this phrase originated on "The Simpsons", it actually existed long before it was used in the show. The phrase is intended to portray the distortion of facts when passed from person to person. Its use in "The Simpsons" was accurate; Bart starts a rumour by whispering to one person...

www.urbandictionary.com

 

[entoman]

Neither of us has any idea. My opinion is that is is totally unlikely and we have absolutely no evidence that Canon has ever done this. Cosidering all the bad publicity that occurs when rumors are not fullfilled, if Canon wants to intentionally leak info, it will be totally 100% accurate. If they did ever did leak info anonymously, certainly vy now they would no how incredibly stupid this would be in the age of the internet.

Of course neither of us knows, we're both speculating - I think that Canon *does* leak some 100% accurate details, but that others add their own wish-lists and exaggerate things to make them sound more juicy. It's just natural human behaviour to "embroider" information.

 

[-pekr-]

I would be glad if Canon would fix their messy servo mode. While I like it how it works in a face detection mode, I really think, that for a single point, the servo mode, which refocuses instead of tracking, should have died with an advent of the MILC cameras.

 

[entoman]

I would be glad if Canon would fix their messy servo mode. While I like it how it works in a face detection mode, I really think, that for a single point, the servo mode, which refocuses instead of tracking, should have died with an advent of the MILC cameras.

Not sure what the issue is - servo (=C-AF) is designed to track subjects continuously as they move away from, or towards the camera, either when shooting single shots, or when shooting bursts. I find it extremely useful when photographing small "static" subjects that are actually moving back and forth on the breeze - a typical example might be a butterfly on a flowerhead, or a dragonfly on a stem.

It's entirely different from "tracking", which is following the movement *across* the frame.

Often a subject will of course be moving towards the camera *and* across the frame, which is why we have a choice of AF "cases" to suit various subjects.

Eventually, AI and machine-learning will result in cameras being more "intelligent" and able to predict subject movement much better, but those days have not yet arrived.

Can you explain what you mean by "messy"?

 

[tbgtomcom]

A few thoughts:

The number of people willing to fork out $5000 for a R5ii body, when they already have the truly excellent R5, is probably quite small. It's in Canon's interests to keep current users happy, and to provide potential purchasers of the R5 with a body that is competitive with recent Nikon and Sony cameras. They are also very aware that all the other brands provide extra features via firmware updates, and they can't afford to be left out of the race.

Eventually the point will be reached where existing hardware can't support certain new features, e.g.:

eye-control AF selection
AF smart controller
machine-learning subject detection
hi-res EVF
bigger/better sensor
elimination of mechanical shutter
new flash shoe

I think a lot of folk will be hanging on to their R5 until these hardware features become available in the "R5ii".

I agree. With the parts shortages still in full swing, the smart business move would be to keep the already excellent camera body current and put out more lenses. They'd still be raking in the money.

 

[tbgtomcom]

IBIS auto-level, I’m almost always one degree out of level. For macro that doesn’t matter, but waterside family pics need a level horizon

I love this feature on my R7... would LOVE it on my R5's.

 

[Czardoom]

I would be glad if Canon would fix their messy servo mode. While I like it how it works in a face detection mode, I really think, that for a single point, the servo mode, which refocuses instead of tracking, should have died with an advent of the MILC cameras.

Seems so simple and clear - not messy. Servo continually focuses with half press. One Shot locks focus at moment of half press. Has nothing to do with mirrorless or single point or tracking. So I guess I'm missing your point.

 

[roby17269]

Hate to say this, but this sounds more like the R1 than the R5ii.
I wouldn’t expect to see a stacked sensor.
If you look at the current line up, there is a pattern leading up to the R1
R6 - low res cmos sensor
R5 - high res cmos sensor
R3 - low res stacked sensor
R1 - high res stacked sensor??

I think you are right...
My only problem would be that 61mp would not be a large enough increase over 45 to make a material difference to me. I'd rather have either many more pixels (80+) or much more speed (45/50 stacked - the Z9 and the A1 say it is doable)... or both, since we're in dreamland in any case

We are speculating of course and we'll have to wait till when Canon will see fit to release the R1 and the R5 II. Or whatever other high-end camera they will decide to make.

I personally do not mind if they take their time... plenty (I mean many models that have been rumored that are of interest to me) of expensive glass to buy

 

[JWest]

Why would it be so difficult.
Look at the Fuji GFX100S...digital 100mp medium format, BSI sensor, etc. In the $6K range and that's a bit older camera.

I have the gfx 100s and it's clunky.

 

[R5boy]

What? it's a camera, and autofocus is the number one priority. Who cares about pre burst if the autofocus is not up to snuff? weird or what.

autofocus is already reasonably good enough, pre-shooting buffer is a game changer

 

[entoman]

autofocus is already reasonably good enough, pre-shooting buffer is a game changer

Pre-capture buffer would be extremely useful for bird and insect photography. Doubtless, sports photographers would find considerable use for it too. It really needs to be able to capture a full second of RAWs at maximum burst speed to be really useful, but it may be feasible to have it via R5 firmware if it was restricted to JPEG or a half-second of RAW. Only guessing.

Yes, AF is "reasonably good enough", but it needs to be a lot "stickier" so it doesn't jump onto messy backgrounds. It would also be nice if it could recognise a much wider range of wild animals, and reliably lock onto and track their eyes. With a lot of birds it recognises the eye, but has a tendency to jump on to brightly marked bits of tail feather.

AF still has l long way to go - it needs to become a lot more "intelligent" in recognising and locking onto subjects. That will entail building a much greater database of subjects - it's probably not possible to do this via firmware, as it would likely require a faster dedicated processor, and a sizeable internal memory. Something for the R5ii or R1 maybe.

I just hope that if/when the rumoured new updates materialise, that they include practical features that will benefit a wide variety of stills shooters.

 

[neuroanatomist]

What? it's a camera, and autofocus is the number one priority. Who cares about pre burst if the autofocus is not up to snuff? weird or what.

autofocus is already reasonably good enough, pre-shooting buffer is a game changer

No matter what Canon does, not everyone will be happy.

 

[koenkooi]

Pre-capture buffer would be extremely useful for bird and insect photography. Doubtless, sports photographers would find considerable use for it too. It really needs to be able to capture a full second of RAWs at maximum burst speed to be really useful, [...]

It runs waaaay below max burst speed on the R6II and R8, pre-capture runs at 30fps, regular capture (H+ mode) runs at 40fps.

 

[InchMetric]

I agree. That and a pseudo sound for electronic shutter.

I'll take a haptic silent feedback for the e-shutter.

 

[InchMetric]

Note that my R5 is in transit to Canon repair because it bricked upon getting the V1.8 update.