APS-C DSLR lineup to get a shake up? [CR1]

Chaitanya

EOS 6D MK II
Jun 27, 2013
1,026
135
33
Pune
Merge the EOS x0D with 7D like pre 7D days and also merge EOS XX0D with 77D lineup dropping that XX0D line for good.
 
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docsmith

EOS 6D MK II
Sep 17, 2010
845
198
First...there were two....x0D and 7Dx....

Then...there were three...77D, 80D and 7DII.

Now...there will be two again....

This doesn't seem that hard. We will just go back to the original intent of the x0D and 7D "x" bodies....I am sure with a few slight modifications....a solid prosumer camera and the King of the APS-C aimed at sport/action photographers....a mini-1Dx.
 

wyotex43n

I'm New Here
Jan 24, 2016
15
5
Whatever they do I hope they do it soon. My own fault but my 7Dmk2 was dropped from about 5 feet. Canon was unable to repair it. Fortunately the camera broke the fall of my 100-400mm. My only real issue with the 7dmk2 was noise at ISO above 800-1250 range. As far as a wish list. 1. Lower Noise from the sensor. 2. Even better auto focus.( like the 1dx MK2) 3. Touch screen but not flimsy. Fyi the camera still takes sharp pictures but none of info appears in the display or on the back screen. auto modes for me:)

I am renting a EOS R for a trip winter trip to Yellowstone in Feb. It will be interesting to see how it performs.
 

markjsmccall

7D2, 5d3, 70-200. 24-70.
I think the 77D was the bellwether for this change. It effectively stood in as a stop gap where the 90D should have been released.

I personally think that the 77D successor and the 80D successor will be the same camera. I could see a 4K implementation to try and retain bloggers who have been using the 70D and 80D which i think remains popular. It will be the jack of all trades master of none APSC that has fitted nicely into this market segment since the 60D.
I'd predict ~24MP at 7fps or thereabouts.

Personally i think that this will be the value driven EOS R implementation but thats just me. Flippy touchscreen screen and call it a day. No more XXD DSLR lineup.

The lower end DSLR replacements will stay DSLRs for the forseeable future.

The 7D will see a MK III with maybe 14fps, the newer generation of sensor (probably around 24MP). Hopefully a significant bump in buffer depth with the new processor tech and maybe 12fps with metering and autofocus. One can dream right? It will not have great video and will not be mirrorless for this generation. It will still be built like a little tank and have the same ergonomics as now. Like the above poster i really want to see better noise performance from ISO800 up to ISO3200.
 

jolyonralph

Kodak Brownie
Aug 25, 2015
1,076
279
49
London, UK
www.everyothershot.com
Right now we have 7 APS-C DSLR bodies , roughly in order of capability and price: 4000D, 2000D, 200D, 800D, 77D, 80D, 7D Mark II.
(Note I'm using the semi-sensible European numbers not the Rebel xTwtf type names used in America)

In the last four years we've seen two lines split into two new lines (the X000D line to the 2000D and 4000D and the X00D line into the 760D/77D line and the 750D/800D line). None of this made much sense.

It reminds me of evolutionary biology of cases you have a massive increase in variation within a group of creatures as it struggles with difficult conditions and tries different permutations to attempt to adapt - often right before an extinction.

Now that has played out we'll see I'm sure that there will be a 7D II replacement which may be lower priced to tempt 80D owners, there will be a 800D replacement possibly called the 88D and aimed at that market, and the 200D, 2000D, and 4000D will carry on unchanged until the heat death of the universe/Canon no longer make DSLRs, whichever comes first.
 

mb66energy

EOS 6D MK II
Dec 18, 2011
1,207
141
Germany
www.MichaelBockhorst.de
What about merging 80D with M50?

An SLR body with switchable EVF-OVF mimics would serve well for those who are willing to lug around an 80D sized body and use OVF for directness and low energy usage but have the EVF option for situations where you want/need DPAF / direct image visualization with color profiles / a video viewfinder etc.? For me the best solution for an alround camera - include the best of both worlds!

If you can produce an APS-C sized OLED display and find a way to view it without too much mechanical efforts while the mirror is up (maybe clear OLED material which sits on / is the matte screen) EVF and OVF are users choice.
 

codynpatterson

Canon 80D // Sigma 18-35 f1.8 // Sigma 70-200 f2.8
I hope they don't sacrifice the 80D. That's the better of the two cameras for portrait, wedding, and landscape photographers so they'd be losing out on a huge industry. I could care less about shutter speed for photos, I want the best sensor, the most feature full apsc camera, fantastic video capabilities, and a compactish size. Also it better not be made into a eos-m camera, we need an eos-R camera or mirrorless body with ef-s lenses. There's no point in continuing to develop ef-M lenses it's a wasted resource and splits the userbase.
 

scyrene

EOR R
Dec 4, 2013
2,413
265
UK
www.flickr.com
It reminds me of evolutionary biology of cases you have a massive increase in variation within a group of creatures as it struggles with difficult conditions and tries different permutations to attempt to adapt - often right before an extinction.
I wonder if you're looking at that the wrong way. Diversity of life in terms of number of lineages tends to increase over time. You'd naturally see a greater diversity just before a mass extinction than just after, but the trend remains the same in the long term - which is to say, the idea that greater diversity predicts an extinction event is erroneous, imho. As for whether this could be used as a metaphor here, I'm even less convinced.
 

codynpatterson

Canon 80D // Sigma 18-35 f1.8 // Sigma 70-200 f2.8
Right now we have 7 APS-C DSLR bodies , roughly in order of capability and price: 4000D, 2000D, 200D, 800D, 77D, 80D, 7D Mark II.
(Note I'm using the semi-sensible European numbers not the Rebel xTwtf type names used in America)

In the last four years we've seen two lines split into two new lines (the X000D line to the 2000D and 4000D and the X00D line into the 760D/77D line and the 750D/800D line). None of this made much sense.

It reminds me of evolutionary biology of cases you have a massive increase in variation within a group of creatures as it struggles with difficult conditions and tries different permutations to attempt to adapt - often right before an extinction.

Now that has played out we'll see I'm sure that there will be a 7D II replacement which may be lower priced to tempt 80D owners, there will be a 800D replacement possibly called the 88D and aimed at that market, and the 200D, 2000D, and 4000D will carry on unchanged until the heat death of the universe/Canon no longer make DSLRs, whichever comes first.
I don't think that 80D users care about price, I chose the 80D over the 7D ii for the better sensor, more features, better videos options, & smaller body. So I could care less about the price I didn't want the 7D ii at all so a lesser price wouldn't have changed that. To me the 80D is the superior camera because of what I shoot.

The 80D and 7Dii are both Canon's top end APSC cameras, they have different purposes and therefor are priced according to the manufacturing process for Canon.

If the new combined camera can do everything I need from my 80D and have features the 7dii users need then sure but they better know that going into it.
 
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scyrene

EOR R
Dec 4, 2013
2,413
265
UK
www.flickr.com
Also it better not be made into a eos-m camera, we need an eos-R camera or mirrorless body with ef-s lenses. There's no point in continuing to develop ef-M lenses it's a wasted resource and splits the userbase.
I'm afraid this makes no sense. People have been talking about an APS-C RF body, which may happen though I think that too doesn't make sense, but the idea they will bring out *yet another* line of lenses for it is beyond credulity imho. The M series has a primary purpose: small size for camera+lens giving pretty good IQ and features - and by all accounts it sells well, so dropping it would be bad business. RF is for top image quality and presumably functionality. The primary advantage of EF-S versus EF was that they could make the lenses smaller and cheaper in a limited focal length range because the former could extend further back into the body as the mirror on APS-C bodies was smaller. But that is no longer the case in RF (versus a putative RF-S line), because there is no mirror, and RF lenses are much closer to the sensor. While a modest size saving might be had (again in a limited range of cases) simply by projecting a smaller image circle (I guess?), I don't see that as compelling enough to launch a new line of lenses with limited cross compatibility, potentially confusing customers further.

Oh - on rereading, I see you mentioned an EF-S (I assume native?) MILC. That is absolutely not gonna happen either - though you can of course mount EF-S lenses on the R with an adaptor. While before the announcement of the R, I strongly believed a native EF MILC was a good option (and maybe they'd release one alongside a new mount), it seems from everything Canon are saying that such a premise is now dead and buried.
 

Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
Mar 25, 2011
15,307
569
The cost of a prism (or mirror), a motor to flip it up out of the way, and some glass to show the image in the viewfinder is way less than the cost of the hardware needed to provide a high resolution small screen. The bodies of the smaller cameras need more expensive materials to keep them sturdy, and the cost of the material to actually make the shell of the body is fractions of a penny difference between a top of the line camera and a cheap one. I don't know why this rumor of how mirrorless is cheaper than DSLR's got started, but it's getting old. At some point that may be the case if high pixel count very small displays become a mainstream thing with augmented reality glasses but until that time they are niche.
Electronic items are priced based on the count of parts, I've been in that business and its the way the pricing is done, unless there is a particularly expensive piece that distorts the pricing. Eventually, the actual price to produce is determined, but initially, its estimated based on historical costs and piece count. Recovery of R&D is also factored in, and thats high for a new technology.

Mirrorless cameras have far fewer parts, which greatly reduces assembly costs as well as warranty costs. The cost of the parts that go into the camera are just a fraction of the end cost, so a few pennies doesn't make a big difference. A Mirrorless does not need the prism, the exposure sensor in the eyepiece, the transmissive electronic lcd in the eyepiece, the mirror with the half silvered window, the sub mirror, the submirror lens, or the AF sensor. The electronic components supporting those go away as well. The cost of the pieces is likely the same or less. EVF's are mature technology, they have been in cameras for over 30 years, and costs to make them have dropped.
 

haggie

EOS 80D
May 11, 2016
136
37
I don't think that 80D users care about price, ..........
I am not so sure about that.

But I do know that I (that is me) want a capable 7D Mk III. For me that means (when compared to the 7D Mk II):
(1) a better AF-system (in particulat in lower light and with less contrasty subjects - and also better tracking properties);
(2) a sensor with better DR and less noise.
In short: I want it to be at least (!) as good as the D500 in these areas.

And Canon will only be able to bring such a camera if it will be priced aroud the 2000 euro/dollar. Or perhaps better: Canon will only be willing to bring such a camera at that price. So I hope that if there is some truth in this CR1 rumor, that this camera will be priced around 2000 euro/dollar.
If not, it will very likely not be the camera I am looking for to replace my 7D Mk II.
 
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codynpatterson

Canon 80D // Sigma 18-35 f1.8 // Sigma 70-200 f2.8
I'm afraid this makes no sense. People have been talking about an APS-C RF body, which may happen though I think that too doesn't make sense, but the idea they will bring out *yet another* line of lenses for it is beyond credulity imho. The M series has a primary purpose: small size for camera+lens giving pretty good IQ and features - and by all accounts it sells well, so dropping it would be bad business. RF is for top image quality and presumably functionality. The primary advantage of EF-S versus EF was that they could make the lenses smaller and cheaper in a limited focal length range because the former could extend further back into the body as the mirror on APS-C bodies was smaller. But that is no longer the case in RF (versus a putative RF-S line), because there is no mirror, and RF lenses are much closer to the sensor. While a modest size saving might be had (again in a limited range of cases) simply by projecting a smaller image circle (I guess?), I don't see that as compelling enough to launch a new line of lenses with limited cross compatibility, potentially confusing customers further.

Oh - on rereading, I see you mentioned an EF-S (I assume native?) MILC. That is absolutely not gonna happen either - though you can of course mount EF-S lenses on the R with an adaptor. While before the announcement of the R, I strongly believed a native EF MILC was a good option (and maybe they'd release one alongside a new mount), it seems from everything Canon are saying that such a premise is now dead and buried.
That's all fine with me... I just don't want to see the 80D move to eos-M. Every other manufactures apsc lineup has lenses focused in the apsc bodies, so if we get an RF mount apsc body I'd be stocked! But only if they gave us some lenses that are designed for the apsc body. Make sense? I should have to strap on a full frame 70-200 f2.8 they should be making lesnes that are equivalent in f stop and focal length for apsc. But to have to completely have different lenses (m series) and then also lenses for my full frame R would be super annoying. Right now I do use full frame lenses AND ef-s lenses. So as long as I can use my R lenses on it natively I'd be happy.
 

Del Paso

M3 Singlestroke
Aug 9, 2018
427
390
I think it’s likely that Canon is unsure of its near future roadmap because the technology and market is changing so quickly. Plans that have been in place are being scrapped for new strawman plans as the market is evolving. Canon will need to become faster at camera evolutions to keep up with competitors. These confusing and changing rumors are likely a result of some internal turmoil at Canon.
These rumors have in no way been generated by Canon!!!!:mad:
So, please, do not turn your belief into facts!
 
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BeenThere

EOS 6D MK II
Sep 4, 2012
832
162
Sony just announced their new APS-C mirrorless a6400. Cost $900, 11 FPS while tracking. Animal eye AF. 4K video with no crop and no pixel binning. Tilt- flip screen.

Is this what the Canon camera of this rumor will compete with? Doubt if Canon will match this price.
 
Last edited:

unfocused

EOS 5D SR
My guess (and all of us are guessing):

7DIII – Continues the tradition of the top of the line APS-C DSLR (mini 1Dx). New sensor, touchscreen, extreme build, autofocus improvements, high frame rate. Focused on birders and action shooters for distance-limited situations. Some features, such as autofocus, may leapfrog the 1Dx II temporarily (which won't be far behind in release date anyway, if at all.) Sensor will be the best available APS-C sensor on the market.

78D/77DII/90D – Top-end consumer DSLR. Very capable camera and even better video DSLR (with flip screen), but closer to 77D than 80D. This will be built to a price-point, probably initially around $900, but quickly dropping into 77D territory.

New top-end "M" camera slotted between the two. 80D buyers that don't want to downgrade to the new DSLR, but don't want a 7DIII can choose the top-end "M," which may well be at or close to the price of the 78D.

There won't be an EOS-R mount in APS-C.

Keep in mind this rumor is CR-1
 
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nchoh

EOS 80D
Apr 3, 2018
198
103
Calgary
Sony just announced their new APS-C mirrorless a6400. Cost $900, 11 FPS while tracking. Animal eye AF. 4K video with no crop and no pixel binning. Tilt- flip screen.

Is this what the Canon camera of this rumor will compete with? Doubt if Canon will match this price.
I am quite sure that Canon will come out with an M that will compete on price and capability.
 

ykn123

EOS T7i
Oct 1, 2013
78
28
52
Germany
www.fotoflucke.de
I really need a small (not my 1DX - to heavy to take with with me on every dog walk) DSLR with fps in the range of 7-9 and very good to great AF Servo tracking capabilities. It could be a R - but not with current Servo AF and fps. Ideally no AA filter. There is none and i really think about a Nikon D7500 :-(. I think about this since months and did not pull the trigger because i don't WANT to invest in another system. So i really hope the 90D would be that camera.
 
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neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,186
1,464
Sony just announced their new APS-C mirrorless a6400. Cost $900, 11 FPS while tracking. Animal eye AF. 4K video with no crop and no pixel binning. Tilt- flip screen.

Is this what the Canon camera of this rumor will compete with? Doubt if Canon will match this price.
With the ‘amazing MILC spec sheets’, don’t you wonder why consumers buy DSLRs? Yet they do...more frequently than they buy MILCs. So in all likelihood, the rumored Canon will not only ‘compete with’ the new Sony, it will outsell it.
 
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