Canon EOS R Mark II in testing [CR2]

Lee Jay

EOS 7D Mark II
Sep 22, 2011
2,123
79
Neither the OVF,
Right! But it shows me what the scene actually looked like when I shot the picture, which is how I'm going to process the sensor data, which is way better than seeing an entirely different scene through the viewfinder.
 
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tron

EOS 5D SR
Nov 8, 2011
4,198
482
I agree with all that but I had to sell it simply because my aging arthritic hands can no longer deal with a body that heavy and large (I'm not a pro.)
I understand. The best camera is the one we (can) have with us.
 

jolyonralph

EOS R Mark II
Aug 25, 2015
1,120
353
London, UK
www.everyothershot.com
So, I'm pretty sure we'll see the EOS R II announced at the same time as the 5D Mark V, and both will have the same sensor. Probably no more than 32-34mpx, but unlike the current generation I predict it will have:

2x UHS II slots (no CF express)

Probably no IBIS

A better focus adjust joystick or similar.

Faster frame rate than the EOS R

Larger raw buffer.

Probably faster DIGIC = faster/more accurate Eye AF.

Full-width 4K video done reasonably well.

Better intelligent auto scene and intelligent focusing. I know a large part of what Canon's Ambassador photographers do is to generate a huge amount of images with metadata that Canon use to crunch for their AI to better understand how and where to focus and the other settings required for generating decent shots in 'full auto' mode. I know it's probably heresy here to say so, but Canon are working on a future where the camera is likely better able to make the right decisions about camera settings and focus points than the photographer in many cases. A lot of the improvements we are likely to see in the EOS R line in the future are to do with software and AI. You'll still be able to set manual mode if you really want to, boomer :)

[Note: Pure speculation ahead!]

I don't actually think the EOS R was ever meant to be a production camera for sale. I think it was a hacked together design meant for limited production for testing, for getting the RF lenses out in the field. I think the EOS RP was actually planned to be the first RF mount camera out for the public with the EOS R coming later (and somewhat like the EOS R II specs above) , and I think that two things happened. Firstly the feedback from photographers especially with the 28-70 and 50 lenses told them that a more serious body was essential for launch (I doubt those two lenses would have launched with the RP, they would have come later. We'd have had the 35, the 24-105 and perhaps another design that never made it passed testing). But more importantly, they found out about Nikon's timing for the Z system and decided they had to rush something out before that. This explains why the body doesn't really seem complete. The touchbar is an experiment that didn't really work, the single card slot was obviously going to cause issues, and the use of a dated sensor incapable of full-width 4K was problematic.

It also explains how it was rushed out with essentially beta firmware with features such as Eye AF not finished.

The EOS R II is the camera we should have had from the beginning, and it's absolutely no surprise it's coming next year.
 

Aussie shooter

@brett.guy.photography
Dec 6, 2016
562
614
Definitely a bit quicker than expected. I was thinking a touch over two years untill the original was replaced but it looks like canon have really got the jiggy on. The Rmk2, Rs and Rx all coming out in the same year. That will be a big year
 
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unfocused

EOS 1D MK II
Jul 20, 2010
5,142
1,622
66
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
They're going to be at Mark II on this before they put out a pro-series R body? I really hope it's a simultaneous announcement...
You need to define a "pro-series R body." As one who shoots consistently with the R (as well as the 5DIV and 1Dx II) I know that the R is a professional level body for the vast majority of use cases. In most cases, I prefer it to the 5D series and it is only as an action/sports camera that it fails to meet the definition of "pro" in my view. I expect an RII will resolve most of the remaining differences between the 5 series and R series.

If you are thinking of action/sports usage, I would say that I believe the R series has a lot of issues right now that are not easily solvable in my opinion. Many of these are simply related to the nature of mirrorless cameras in general. I can certainly see why Canon would want to resolve those issues before releasing a body that is meant to complement the 1D series. I am not surprised that it could take until 2021 to perfect a sports/action R body. Canon will have a lot riding on the action series of the R and I expect that Canon, being Canon, won't release the body until they have it right.
 
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Quarkcharmed

EOS 5DMkIV
Feb 14, 2018
568
468
Australia
www.michaelborisenko.com
I did a dance competiton with the 5d3 the other day and my God, the photos werent great, granted crap orange lighting above, but a lot of them were blurry
@ 1/160 with canon 70-200 2.8. I din't want to go too high a speed as I'd need hss and wear out the flash.
I'm yet to see a dancing competition where they allow a flash. It's very disturbing to competitors. Typically you'd shot at ISO 1600-3200 to get at least 1/320 - 1/400 at f2.8. Even if the shots appear slightly underexposed, better use the higher shutter speed and then increase the exposure in postproduction (all must be shot in RAW obviously). With a flash you could potentially go down to ISO 400-800. But I'm not sure what type of flash you'd use to have an even lighting across the whole scene.

The colour cast from the stage lighting can be reduced by simply dialling the saturation down.
 

navastronia

EOS RP + 5D Classic
Aug 31, 2018
291
321
No. That is exactly false.

The EVF displays what the in-camera JPEG is going to produce from the data the sensor is going to capture. It doesn't display what the sensor captures.

The final image could be many different things depending on processing. In my opinion, the best thing to do processing-wise is to try to produce and image that looks like the real scene looked after human visual-system processing, in most cases. And that's the reason the EVF should look like the scene looks, not like the out-of-camera JPEG.
You're splitting hairs - yes, of course the EVF is displaying what the produced JPG will look like. What I'm saying is not controversial. The point of using an EVF is to see approximately what image you are creating, not to see the scene as your eyes view it. If you don't want to see the scene as the camera does, don't use a camera with an EVF. Additionally, your opinion about "human visual-system processing" (mumbo-jumbo) is hogwash - you're trying to put a name to the subjective experience of observing the scene. Your preference for trying to create a scene that looks the way your eyes perceive it is exactly that - just a preference. But some people see better than others in low light, for instance, so this is hardly a translatable or universal way to proceed. It's simply what you like to do.

Unfortunately not. The viewfinder shows how the captured scene will look in the viewfinder. I'm not supposed to like it this way; I don't expect anyone to watch my pictures through the viewfinder.
I quoted Lee Jay talking about the EVF using the term "viewfinder." Maybe that's generating confusion? I'm talking about the EVF.

No it doesn't. It shows you the view with the lens at its widest aperture, not at the aperture that you've set, and with the exposure adjusted to simulate the exposure you'll get with the correct aperture. Unless you're using the DOF preview.
Which is why I have "DOF preview" mapped to the * on the back of my RP.
 
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Codebunny

EOS T7i
Sep 5, 2018
79
54
Out of interest (it’s not my area of expertise), what’s the advantage of CFExpress over modern high speed, high capacity SD cards?
SD is significantly slower, almost 10x slower and CFExpress is getting faster time moves on. It’s like a HDD vs a SSD. Then there is just the desire to be able to share my cards between different cameras.
 

slclick

135 LSD
Dec 17, 2013
3,364
884
Tried one of each in the store.



Both were awful.


And when things are moving, or there is high contrast, or where the light is low and you don't want your low-light adaptation destroyed, or where you want to see the scene as it appears to the unaided eye.
I want an instore discovery experience like that. The Cabela's of Cameras?
 

slclick

135 LSD
Dec 17, 2013
3,364
884
If Leica or Panasonic will offer a 24hour turnaround for repairs, a presence at major events for loaners and repairs like we get at the Olympics and a CPS like program for professionals. I might try one of their cameras. Let me know when they do that! Thank you....
+ menu system, ergonomics and color profile
 
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Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
1,493
857
I quoted Lee Jay talking about the EVF using the term "viewfinder." Maybe that's generating confusion? I'm talking about the EVF.
I'm also talking about EVF. It's not WYSIWYG, unless the EVF itself is the target media, which it isn't.
The EVF shows less than you get.
The OVF shows more than you get.
I'm fine with the latter, but not with the former.

Which is why I have "DOF preview" mapped to the * on the back of my RP.
Maybe the camera manufacturers should make a flatter picture style shown in the EVF by default, showing details in otherwise overexposed and underexposed areas, and applying the "WYSIWYG" picture style when you press "DOF preview".
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
1,241
627
I would not be surprised to see Canon keep the R Classic in the lineup and drop the price of both the R and the RP. They need to keep production going on the R body anyway, since they just introduced the Ra.
For low volume products such as the Ra, Canon typically stockpiles a supply before release that could last several years before they need to make another production run.
 

reef58

EOS RP
Apr 16, 2016
208
92
Canon doesn't design their bodies around third party accessories.
I didn't say they did. You said the joystick was not needed because you can use your thumb. I merely pointed out that is not always the case.
 

criscokkat

EOS RP
Sep 26, 2017
313
286
Madison, WI
For low volume products such as the Ra, Canon typically stockpiles a supply before release that could last several years before they need to make another production run.
The Ra might have also been a way to make a niche product with a mass of bodies and sensors they already had. It's identical to the R once the filter has been removed. I wouldn't be surprised if the 30x live view zoom makes it to the R firmware sometime.
 

Lee Jay

EOS 7D Mark II
Sep 22, 2011
2,123
79
You're splitting hairs - yes, of course the EVF is displaying what the produced JPG will look like. What I'm saying is not controversial. The point of using an EVF is to see approximately what image you are creating, not to see the scene as your eyes view it. If you don't want to see the scene as the camera does, don't use a camera with an EVF.
In difficult lighting conditions, the EVF display is nowhere near what the scene looks like. This is an example of that issue that I made a long time ago. The top, EVF view, is the out-of-camera JPEG. Note that this scene is NOT UNDEREXPOSED. There were still blown pixels in the raw data. It's just a high DR scene.

 

criscokkat

EOS RP
Sep 26, 2017
313
286
Madison, WI
So, I'm pretty sure we'll see the EOS R II announced at the same time as the 5D Mark V, and both will have the same sensor. Probably no more than 32-34mpx, but unlike the current generation I predict it will have:

(snipped rest, which I more or less agree with)
I think most of your predictions are probably right, with an fps around 12 with tracking enabled. But I don't think such a slight bump is going to cut the mustard. I suspect the bump will be something around 38 or higher. I just can't see it being the same as most of the aps-c cameras out there.
 

Viggo

EOS 5D SR
Dec 13, 2010
4,291
884
After editing a few old 1dx2 files I really wish, won’t happen, Canon would give the Rii 20mp and cleaner files. I don’t even notice the resolution increase over the 1dx2, but I sure do notice the noise increase...
 

Jethro

EOS R
Jul 14, 2018
275
143
What it probably means is that a new sensor is coming soon with a new 5Dv. Going forward, I think the EOS R / 5D range will refresh in parallel (while the DSLR market continues to be profitable - ie for a fair while). It's a really smart way of maximising return on development costs by producing bodies for 2 different sub-sections of the market. I personally doubt you'll see dual card slots on the EOS Rii, because they seem to see that as one of the differentiators of the R line from the 5D line. And I wouldn't hold your breath for IBIS in this cycle either - although I have to say it would make sense to introduce it in these cameras before the 1D series.
 

navastronia

EOS RP + 5D Classic
Aug 31, 2018
291
321
I'm also talking about EVF. It's not WYSIWYG, unless the EVF itself is the target media, which it isn't.
The EVF shows less than you get.
The OVF shows more than you get.
I'm fine with the latter, but not with the former.


Maybe the camera manufacturers should make a flatter picture style shown in the EVF by default, showing details in otherwise overexposed and underexposed areas, and applying the "WYSIWYG" picture style when you press "DOF preview".
Not a bad feature request. As far as the EVF showing less than what you get, you could always make your own super flat picture style style and then shoot with that? That's what many of us do.