Canon officially announces the Canon EOS R system
- Thread starter Canon Rumors Guy
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It's been noted in the reviews, and is not at all surprising given the slow readout of the sensor. 120 fps topping out at 720p is a good indicator of sensor readout. It's basically the same sensor as the 5D mark IV. The reason Nikon and Panasonic have had access to faster readout sensors is because they focus their resources on fine tuning Sony sensors instead of trying to build the entire sensor from the ground up. Though, none of them are still as advance as the 5 year old Samsung DSLR.
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Yep I've already figured the price
Among existing Canon FF owners, I think 5DMkIV owners won't upgrade to R (some may consider it as a secondary camera). There's no or little point to change 5D4 for R. Flip screen is the only major advantage. I think R fills the gap between 6DMkII and 5DMkIV, but it's closer to 6DMkII. So 6D or 6DMkII owners may consider upgrading to R.
For those who don't have an FF, R is a great option to start. R is more expensive than 6DMkII but so much better in all areas. If its price drops to around $2000, it'll probably kill 6DII in a while.
But I have no idea how/if it's going to compete against Nikon Z6. Apart from IBIS, Z6 is weaker, and the initial Z lenses are so-so, but it's all cheaper.
Another potential rival, A7rIII has better specs but much more expensive, it's a different category.
So my feeling is, the current price is a bit too much, but only a little bit. But Canon has much more powerful marketing department than my marketing intuition, so I bet this camera will sell well.
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Yep I've already figured the price
Among existing Canon FF owners, I think 5DMkIV owners won't upgrade to R (some may consider it as a secondary camera). There's no or little point to change 5D4 for R. Flip screen is the only major advantage. I think R fills the gap between 6DMkII and 5DMkIV, but it's closer to 6DMkII. So 6D or 6DMkII owners may consider upgrading to R.
For those who don't have an FF, R is a great option to start. R is more expensive than 6DMkII but so much better in all areas. If its price drops to around $2000, it'll probably kill 6DII in a while.
But I have no idea how/if it's going to compete against Nikon Z6. Apart from IBIS, Z6 is weaker, and the initial Z lenses are so-so, but it's all cheaper.
Another potential rival, A7rIII has better specs but much more expensive, it's a different category.
So my feeling is, the current price is a bit too much, but only a little bit. But Canon has much more powerful marketing department than my marketing intuition, so I bet this camera will sell well.
The Z6 will be the main competition. The A7 III is a great camera(and no longer has the Sony flaws of overheating or star eating, and color is acceptable) and the A7R III is almost great, plus the EF comparability is decent. But the ergonomics of the Sony cameras are still not great. If a third party adapter is made for EF to the Z cameras works as well as the one for the E mount, I'll jump to the Nikon.
Edit: I should not that Sony and Canon's memory cards won't cost an arm and a leg.
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Yep I've already figured the price
Among existing Canon FF owners, I think 5DMkIV owners won't upgrade to R (some may consider it as a secondary camera). There's no or little point to change 5D4 for R. Flip screen is the only major advantage. I think R fills the gap between 6DMkII and 5DMkIV, but it's closer to 6DMkII. So 6D or 6DMkII owners may consider upgrading to R.
For those who don't have an FF, R is a great option to start. R is more expensive than 6DMkII but so much better in all areas. If its price drops to around $2000, it'll probably kill 6DII in a while.
But I have no idea how/if it's going to compete against Nikon Z6. Apart from IBIS, Z6 is weaker, and the initial Z lenses are so-so, but it's all cheaper.
Another potential rival, A7rIII has better specs but much more expensive, it's a different category.
So my feeling is, the current price is a bit too much, but only a little bit. But Canon has much more powerful marketing department than my marketing intuition, so I bet this camera will sell well.
Since there are a lot of IS lens around, I'll trade IBIS with better AF if I am a photographer. Video is a different ball game that I don't quite understand yet.
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Secondly.... 10 bit 422 with C-Log .... that can only be recorded externally... YES! Finally! LOL. That means we finally get the long awaited 4k HDMI output! I'm hoping maybe we finally get some sort of firmware update for the 1DX2 to unlock that feature as well (it has an artificial ceiling of 1080p)
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Quite good summary and conclusion, IMO.
The quoted part above is the key to me:
Canon is aiming at the prosumers looking for FF and wanting MILC.
They offer a body at a reasonable price with reasonable specs, and deliver a good kit lens and a small 35 mm WA standard (with macro icing on top) for the start.
The RF 50/1.2 and the RF 28-70/2.0 are expensive but aiming at studio and wedding portrait photographers to get a second market. Of course for wedding you'd go for dual card slot.
Journalists, sports and action photographers are not addressed yet.
To give them advantages over the existing DSLRs and EF lenses, they'd need ( edit: ) native RF f/2.8 zooms with faster AF and maybe smaller and lighter and of course a body with dual card slot and much higher fps.
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Is the 1DX 2 HDMI ceiling artificial? I was under the impression it was using an older HDMI protocol.
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They needed to release a super wide RF lens with that 4K 1.6 crop.
You can't vlog 4K with a 24mm lens, or a 3lb lens (28-70). The 24-105 also has a min. focusing distance of 17.71 inches...
Yes, you can adapt to an ef-s lens (no 60P) 10-18 which is much lower quality or use an other existing wider lens that will introduce noise when focusing. Unfortunately, this likely won't work for me.
You can't vlog 4K with a 24mm lens, or a 3lb lens (28-70). The 24-105 also has a min. focusing distance of 17.71 inches...
Yes, you can adapt to an ef-s lens (no 60P) 10-18 which is much lower quality or use an other existing wider lens that will introduce noise when focusing. Unfortunately, this likely won't work for me.
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The R is not an "upgrade" to the 6 or 5 body. It's a different camera altogether. I don't think there will be much issue there. Apart from sensor resolution, the R specs are on par or better than the A7R3 and comes in for $1000 less (plus you get Canon color science which is still better than Sony's). Also there is a yet to be seen second Canon Mirrorless FF body rumored to be revealed early/mid next year that would be an even higher end model than this. I think the price is pretty much dead on. It's much more akin to the 5D4 than the 6D2 and it's only about $400 more than the 6 but $1000 less than the 5. To me it's a steal. But you have to be willing to either use adapters (for those of us who already have extensive EF libraries) or you pick up new glass (which is what I may do)
I had been waiting to se what this would look like because I wanted something compact but still FF for travel and personal use. This R checks off all the boxes and more than I suspected (with C-log 4k 10bit 422 HDMI output). Now I just need to see how much the 28-70 f2 is lol
I suspect the market share of the R will be the largest piece of that pie chart in very short order.
I had been waiting to se what this would look like because I wanted something compact but still FF for travel and personal use. This R checks off all the boxes and more than I suspected (with C-log 4k 10bit 422 HDMI output). Now I just need to see how much the 28-70 f2 is lol
I suspect the market share of the R will be the largest piece of that pie chart in very short order.
Yep I've already figured the price
Among existing Canon FF owners, I think 5DMkIV owners won't upgrade to R (some may consider it as a secondary camera). There's no or little point to change 5D4 for R. Flip screen is the only major advantage. I think R fills the gap between 6DMkII and 5DMkIV, but it's closer to 6DMkII. So 6D or 6DMkII owners may consider upgrading to R.
For those who don't have an FF, R is a great option to start. R is more expensive than 6DMkII but so much better in all areas. If its price drops to around $2000, it'll probably kill 6DII in a while.
But I have no idea how/if it's going to compete against Nikon Z6. Apart from IBIS, Z6 is weaker, and the initial Z lenses are so-so, but it's all cheaper.
Another potential rival, A7rIII has better specs but much more expensive, it's a different category.
So my feeling is, the current price is a bit too much, but only a little bit. But Canon has much more powerful marketing department than my marketing intuition, so I bet this camera will sell well.
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Exciting times! I undershot my U.S. price guess by 99 bucks. But this is great news in my book... This implies to me that there will be a pro model that is almost sure to have dual cards. This price also shows a huge commitment to FF mirrorless and the RF mount.
The thing that will nag me like a bug under my skin until the pro model is out is... will they yank that sweet flippy screen away from me? Will they have the nerve to ask 3,500 for a camera and have a fixed lcd screen? Man. That rascally Canon.
Depending on reviews (and then a rental) between now and end of year, I may be getting this first model anyway. My wife would love it unless there's some usability issue that isn't obvious yet.
And I think this price, combined with the mediocre EF refreshes, tells me where Canon sees the future leading, and that future has an RF mount on it.
The thing that will nag me like a bug under my skin until the pro model is out is... will they yank that sweet flippy screen away from me? Will they have the nerve to ask 3,500 for a camera and have a fixed lcd screen? Man. That rascally Canon.
Depending on reviews (and then a rental) between now and end of year, I may be getting this first model anyway. My wife would love it unless there's some usability issue that isn't obvious yet.
And I think this price, combined with the mediocre EF refreshes, tells me where Canon sees the future leading, and that future has an RF mount on it.
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4k HDMI protocols were widely available at the time (I am not aware if they deliberately chose an older one) since several other cameras (sony, Panasonic, fuji) all had them for far less. Plus the much older (tech age) Canon 1DC with 2 generations older Digic chips could do it. The 1DX2 has such robust video features with CFast2 recording, but Canon choked the output and left out Log presumably so as not to "compete" with the Cinema line.
This "new" thinking with the EOS R is very welcomed. Canon until now never seemed to understand that DSLR bodies aren't going to replace dedicated video cameras for pros. In fact, many use both in tandem.
I just hope they can go back (because I suspect it's a firmware design) and unlock the output. If they deliberately used hardware that couldn't support it... shame.
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A couple things I found interesting:
- This appears to be using the 5D IV sensor, but it was identified in the videos as being a middle of the road camera: a good first full-frame camera for buyers (i.e. like a 6D). What does that mean for the next model up? Does the 5DS/SR (or an updated version) slot into the 5D's previous position?
- One of the videos noted that the camera used the LP-E6 so batteries from older cameras would be compatible with this, first full frame mirrorless camera. This seemed to be a strange way to phrase it to me, almost insinuating that other cameras may use other batteries. That may not be a bad thing considering the battery life being projected off of an LP-E6.
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