Lower end EOS R body to omit the touch bar

tiggy@mac.com

Pentax K-1000
Jan 20, 2014
459
120
Thetford, VT
www.ForestMetrix.com
I think Canon has to release a lower-end R body because currently the R lineup's naming convention is simply too sensical. You have just the R. They need a few more models to create their required level of naming convention contradiction and confusion. Like when they introduced the 77D or the M50. They need to have multiple numbers that seem to go in a certain order so that the next camera can contradict expectations. Where a normal person might think of the upcoming low end body as the R- and the rumored high-end body the R+, Canon will name them something like the EOS R10 and the EOS R79.5S. And then the 4th body to come out will be called the Vixia M(R).
 
Jul 12, 2013
209
35
This may sound a little bit hypocritical as someone who won't buy the R series until they release a pro version, but I think Canon has the right idea with releasing a lower-end R as soon as possible. It sure seems like the biggest segment of the MILC market is the ~$1000 camera section. Build it up from the base and then release the A9-style R camera that will head straight into my camera bag.

I recently evaluated the EOS R from Canon Pro Services and actually fell in love with it. It was a brilliant camera, but it just isn't fast enough yet for breaking news and sports, which is the bulk of how I make my money. But for hanging around with family or some slower general news assignments, there just wasn't any way to beat it. It was a perfectly wonderful experience in most slow photography, landscapes, etc, all while being a great, usable size.
(emphasis added)

What you've posted here describes, perfectly, my experience with the M6.
 

peterzuehlke

EOS 80D
Oct 1, 2015
105
16
Huh? So class leading niche lenses and they want the next R to slot in below the current one. I always thought Canon was brilliant at marketing. I remember when Nikon came out with the F2 and Canon came out after with the F1. Seems like Canon always wanted to be second out with the little better, little less expensive product and same or a little better lens quality at a lower price. Seems like things are different now.
 

Adelino

EOS RP
Jan 21, 2015
250
90
I think it would need to be less than $1500. U.S. to differentiate sufficiently from first R to attract low end buyers. What would they leave off? Would it simply be a lower res camera with no touch bar and slightly fewer options in the menu? :unsure:
As the prime target market for this camera I would LOVE it to be just like a 6D2! If they could increase DR (not likely) that would be appreciated but not a deal breaker at sub 1500 USD.
 
Nov 16, 2018
7
12
I wouldn't be surprised if the current R model gets phased out to be replaced with a lower end and a higher end model.
 

hmatthes

EOS-R, RF and EF Lenses of all types.
That touch bar nonsense reminds of the same thing on Macbooks. Crap that people don't need, don't want and would really wish they didn't have to pay for. And yet Apple and Canon push unwanted creepy tech on us. We want better sensors - Canon gives us touch bar. OMG. I just can't.
Like the Macbok Pro with Touch display, in time I have learned that the R's touch bar is useful in the moment. I use the touch bar for focus mode selection. Very handy. Yes. I want a joystick for selection, but this thingy works well for focus mode.
{Macbook Pro's touch display has become valuable as apps utilize it! Come On Lightroom -- we need you!}
 

tmroper

EOS 80D
Sep 22, 2016
141
41
The most annoying thing for me about the touch bar on the EOS R I tested was, it reminded me of some kind of console game (or even just kids electronic game) from the 80s or 90s, but I still can't put my finger on which one. It keeps nagging at me...
 

Adelino

EOS RP
Jan 21, 2015
250
90
Canon pursues all segments and they will be figuring out how to segment the R line. Using the M line as a guide on how they will develop the R line, they will be releasing different models with different capabilities/ ergonomics combinations (ev dial, no EVF, etc) to see how the market reacts.

Lots of existing Canon shooters who have EF glass. A lower end R camera with a kit lens would be sufficient to drive a lot of sales.
No EVF on a FF would be horrendous, likely lower resolution EVF though. I agree that an inexpensive R would really drive sales with APS-C upgraders!
 

Kit Lens Jockey

EOS 7D MK II
Nov 12, 2016
438
139
Canon needs to realize that touch sensitive control is not the future for every device even if it has become the standard for the most widespread devices, cell phones.

For something like a cell phone where your undivided attention is usually focused on what you're doing with the controls, touch sensitive controls are fine. They're easy to use and you can do unique things with them.

For a device like a camera where your primary focus is not on the camera itself but rather what you're pointing it at, you need physical controls with tactile feedback. Otherwise you end up hunting around for the controls, not being able to use them precisely, and bumping them when you don't mean to.

Nothing this silly touch bar does couldn't be replicated by a simple rocker switch in its place, and then you could actually feel what you're doing instead of trying to feel out (no pun intended) what is happening with this touch bar, which gives you no feedback.

If you look at Ford vehicles from the early 2010s, they made all of the buttons in the center console touch sensitive buttons and bars that you swipe. People hated it. They went back to buttons after a few years. When you're focused on the road in front of you, it's better to have a physical button that gives you tactile feedback rather than some touch sensitive thing that you have to hunt around for. The same thing goes for a camera.

Just because touching and swiping has become the control method of choice on phones, that doesn't necessarily translate to every other device, especially ones that have controls that you have to manipulate while your main focus is on something else. Canon needs to learn this. Touch sensitive controls in this application isn't futuristic or forward thinking, it's just bad design for this application.
 
Mar 14, 2012
2,224
122
I really don't understand why the touch bar is as hated as it is. At worst, one can use it as a two separate buttons with a slide function. With the EVF, you see the change you are making unlike with the DSLR where tactile feedback was more necessary. It is also nice that the functions can be set separately for stills and video mode.

And for those that want the joystick, you can move the focus point with the arrow keys. It's not in the same spot as where the joystick normally is, but you quickly find out how tedious it is to move it point by point amongst thousands of AF points -- this is not a SLR with much fewer AF points which works with the joystick. OR you can use two wheels to jump points horizontally and vertically.

My guess is that the lower R model will also have fewer AF points. 200-300 will do as long as they're spread across the sensor, and it will decrease the processing/complexity of the AF system which will allow Canon to reduce cost and price it lower.
 

Adelino

EOS RP
Jan 21, 2015
250
90
Canon needs to realize that touch sensitive control is not the future for every device even if it has become the standard for the most widespread devices, cell phones.

For something like a cell phone where your undivided attention is usually focused on what you're doing with the controls, touch sensitive controls are fine. They're easy to use and you can do unique things with them.

For a device like a camera where your primary focus is not on the camera itself but rather what you're pointing it at, you need physical controls with tactile feedback. Otherwise you end up hunting around for the controls, not being able to use them precisely, and bumping them when you don't mean to.

Nothing this silly touch bar does couldn't be replicated by a simple rocker switch in its place, and then you could actually feel what you're doing instead of trying to feel out (no pun intended) what is happening with this touch bar, which gives you no feedback.

If you look at Ford vehicles from the early 2010s, they made all of the buttons in the center console touch sensitive buttons and bars that you swipe. People hated it. They went back to buttons after a few years. When you're focused on the road in front of you, it's better to have a physical button that gives you tactile feedback rather than some touch sensitive thing that you have to hunt around for. The same thing goes for a camera.

Just because touching and swiping has become the control method of choice on phones, that doesn't necessarily translate to every other device, especially ones that have controls that you have to manipulate while your main focus is on something else. Canon needs to learn this. Touch sensitive controls in this application isn't futuristic or forward thinking, it's just bad design for this application.
Imagine an F1 steering wheel with touch controls!
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
23,650
711
Just because touching and swiping has become the control method of choice on phones, that doesn't necessarily translate to every other device,
Sure it does. The defining moment for me was when my then 3-year old daughter (she’s nearly 11 now), who’d had an iPad for a few months, didn’t like what was on TV...so she walked up to it and started swiping her fingers across the flat screen trying to change the channel.

Touching and swiping are the future. ;)
 
Reactions: scyrene and pj1974

SaP34US

EOS T7i
Aug 21, 2018
67
3
I hope they announce both the lower R and the Pro R at the same time. The lower R released in the Q1 or Q2 and Pro R between for release in Q1 and Early Q3.( no later the 2nd wk of August)
I would think that Canon would take the touch bar off the Pro R rather the entry level R unless the lower R is going to be smaller the EOS R is already.
 

Otara

EOS RP
Jul 16, 2012
227
21
I like the idea of the touch bar on my R a lot, but currently havent found a way to use it reliably. At the very least I think it hasnt been introduced in a way where the benefits are immediately obvious to many. Its a bit vexing because I want to make various controls more accessible, but so far I find its either too slow, or too easy to touch by accident. A button you have to press, this you just have to brush, and my hand moves around a fair bit to access other controls.

It could just be a matter of practise, but Ive had it for a while now. Similar issues with the lens control rings, too close to the mount for me..
 

gmon750

EOS T7i
Jan 30, 2015
64
22
Canon has to do so much catch-up work to remain competitive. The wolves are circling and moving quickly. Will the Canon glacier move?
In your bubble perhaps. In what we live in called "reality", Canon is doing just fine. They are coming out with more world-class RF lenses, and had a good, solid start with their R-body. Nothing in your prophetic belief has any truth to it.
 

Jethro

EOS R
Jul 14, 2018
141
64
There is speculation that they will tweak the operation of the touchbar on the EOS R via the firmware update - but query how much they can actually do. If it involves including more options for the swipe or the edges, that's possible, but I suspect that the limits of the tactile element are in the hardware rather than the firmware. My own experience so far is that I don't love it, but with patience (and using the visual response on the VF as someone above mentioned) it is useful. I use the swipe for magnification.
 

Jethro

EOS R
Jul 14, 2018
141
64
so far I find its either too slow, or too easy to touch by accident. A button you have to press, this you just have to brush, and my hand moves around a fair bit to access other controls.

It could just be a matter of practise, but Ive had it for a while now. Similar issues with the lens control rings, too close to the mount for me..
Depending on how you set it up, it can be activated by resting your finger for a second or so (not just brushing). That means not immediate response (as in a button), but the result is that you can get variable response after it is activated.
 

Andrei

I'm New Here
Aug 14, 2018
12
10
I just want Canon to release a camera with :
24 megapixels
Very very good in low light
Very very good DR (above 14 stops)
A new formula for eye autofocus at least equal as sony a73
A better evf
No touch bar... But 2 programable buttons
The round wheel from 5d3 or 6d2 with redirectional inside
Wi fi... Gps...
8 frame per second in all mode
4k at least 30fps with no crop... And 120 fps 1080
C log in camera and 10bit in camera
We need all this things since 2014...
So canon...i will by 2 camera instant if you will put on table for 2000 euro in 2019 this camera
 

gmon750

EOS T7i
Jan 30, 2015
64
22
My niche-wish-list is for a pro-level R body and a major manufacturer of underwater housings like Aquatica or Nauticam to release a housing for that camera. Until then, I'll continue enjoying my fully-capable 5DMIII. The people that their shiny new MILC cameras make dSLR's suddenly inoperable. Laughable, especially considering my photos from my 5DM3 and my friend's Sony a9 look practically indistinguishable when viewed side-by-side. The main difference is that I can dive for days without changing my 5D battery, where my buddy has to change after each 1-2 dives. No thank you.. Mirrorless isn't there for me just yet.