Lower end EOS R body to omit the touch bar

Foxeslink

EOS M50
Aug 2, 2018
25
44
I just want Canon to release a camera with :
24 megapixels
Very very good in low light
Very very good DR (above 14 stops)
A new formula for eye autofocus at least equal as sony a73
A better evf
No touch bar... But 2 programable buttons
The round wheel from 5d3 or 6d2 with redirectional inside
Wi fi... Gps...
8 frame per second in all mode
4k at least 30fps with no crop... And 120 fps 1080
C log in camera and 10bit in camera
We need all this things since 2014...
So canon...i will by 2 camera instant if you will put on table for 2000 euro in 2019 this camera

There is no better EVF at the moment in Mirrorless industry ...
 
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addola

Sold my soul for a flippy screen
Nov 16, 2015
65
29
APS-C...That will be nice.
I don't think Canon would release an APS-C RF mount camera in the near future. I also wonder what would happen to the EOS M. I would think they'll keep that as their APS-C, and the RF as their FF because they would have to make "designed for APS-C" lenses for the RF mount.
 

dsut4392

EOS T7i
Jul 31, 2014
68
20
My niche-wish-list is for a pro-level R body and a major manufacturer of underwater housings like Aquatica or Nauticam to release a housing for that camera. Until then, I'll continue enjoying my fully-capable 5DMIII. The people that their shiny new MILC cameras make dSLR's suddenly inoperable. Laughable, especially considering my photos from my 5DM3 and my friend's Sony a9 look practically indistinguishable when viewed side-by-side. The main difference is that I can dive for days without changing my 5D battery, where my buddy has to change after each 1-2 dives. No thank you.. Mirrorless isn't there for me just yet.
Waiting for camera releases follows the same rule as diving - "Don't hold your breath"!
 
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dirtyvu

I'm New Here
Jan 7, 2019
19
9
I like the touchbar. I mapped temperature to it so swiping or tapping will cause me to quickly and instantly change the degrees. And I get to avoid the default templates. If it was a PROGRAMMABLE dial, that would be fine too. As long as it lets me change something without first pressing a button (this is why I've always hated the ISO button because you have to hit the ISO button before you could turn the dial; the way my EOS R is set up, I can change ISO, exposure, and shutter speed immediately without having to press anything).
 

dak723

EOS 6D MK II
Oct 26, 2013
1,141
434
Depending on how you set it up, it can be activated by resting your finger for a second or so (not just brushing). That means not immediate response (as in a button), but the result is that you can get variable response after it is activated.
I rented the R a month or so ago, and if memory serves correctly, you can customize the touch bar to make it work just like a button with no delay. I believe you can disable the swipe, disable one side, and the delay and just customize one side to be a just like a button.
 

dirtyvu

I'm New Here
Jan 7, 2019
19
9
What can they possible do to make an even lower end EOS R?

They released the pretty much best lenses of their entire lineup and only a mirrorless 6d to use them... and now they release an even worse mirrorless camera?
It is REALY time for a professional EOS R, not another toy... what else are these high end lenses made for? Instagram posts with a 3000$ lense attached to a toy camera?
No point in discussing the camera if you're calling it a mirrorless 6D. You clearly haven't tried it or looked at the pictures and videos produced by it.
 

Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
Mar 25, 2011
15,544
768
For those of us with large hands, the touch bar is in the way. I just turn it off, I don't mind it being there if some use it, thats great. I see it being similar to video, I don't take video's, but I don't care if its there in the rare event that I shoot a 10 second video.
 

Treyarnon

EOS T7i
Jan 11, 2018
62
36
Cornwall, UK
Visit site
No point in discussing the camera if you're calling it a mirrorless 6D. You clearly haven't tried it or looked at the pictures and videos produced by it.
Canon rarely differentiates their cameras by image quality (for example the 6D1 actually had a better sensor than the 5D3 or the way Canon uses the same 24mp APSC sensor across most APSC range)
Instead Canon tends to differentiate the models by other features - build quality, size and control layout being the prime examples - but also often AF system, number of card slots and frame rates. From this rationale the feature set of the R is more of a '6D+' model than a '5D' style model, so a 'mirrorless 6D' is an apt descriptor - and that has nothing to do with any comment on the pictures a 5D or 6D can or cannot produce.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,617
2,096
Canon rarely differentiates their cameras by image quality (for example the 6D1 actually had a better sensor than the 5D3 or the way Canon uses the same 24mp APSC sensor across most APSC range)
Instead Canon tends to differentiate the models by other features - build quality, size and control layout being the prime examples - but also often AF system, number of card slots and frame rates. From this rationale the feature set of the R is more of a '6D+' model than a '5D' style model, so a 'mirrorless 6D' is an apt descriptor - and that has nothing to do with any comment on the pictures a 5D or 6D can or cannot produce.
Canon also differentiates by price, and there too, the EOS R is closest to the 6-series.
 

Treyarnon

EOS T7i
Jan 11, 2018
62
36
Cornwall, UK
Visit site
Totally mad idea - but comments about which features Canon would/could sacrifice to make a low cost full frame camera got me thinking a bit.

So what if Canon built one fully featured mirrorless camera (say for conjecture a mirrorless 5D5) - rather than release it for £3.5 or even £4k - Canon puts it out at £1.5k, but with many of the advanced features disabled. Then, if we want some of those features - faster burst rate, recording onto a second card slot, 4K recording etc , we log onto the Canon website and pay a fee to unlock those features.

A bit of a radical departure from the present way of doing things - and yes producing a 'fully featured' camera with the processing power and second card slot etc already in place will cost more to produce. However there could be associated savings, such as only need to research and develop one model rather then a whole range. And if it allows more people to buy the camera with the features they want, that could be good (and heaven knows photographers like upgradeability!)

Total madness or a glimpse into the future?
 

aceflibble

EOS RP
May 8, 2015
296
62
Totally mad idea
[...cut to save space...]
Total madness or a glimpse into the future?
Doesn't work for hardware. This method does work out for software—in fact it's the business model that most audio processing software and also most video games have employed for several years—but hardware has much higher up-front costs which stop this from being viable.

As it is, camera bodies already make almost no profit. The general guide is that there is £50 profit for every £1000 that a body sells for. So a £1000 body represents about £50 profit, a £2000 body makes about £100 profit, and so on. Of course specific bodies may make a little bit more or a little bit less, and there are sales and rebates and everything else like that to consider, but fifty quid for every grand laid down by the customer is the general guide.

So if you were to make a body which would normally sell for £3500, representing around £175 profit, and instead sell it for £1500, you're basically guaranteeing a nearly two-grand loss on every sale. And even if a few users were going to pay up more to unlock some features, most won't. Even if they all did, you'd still only be back to breaking even. Whatever small amount you saved in production would not outweigh the massive losses.

Of course another problem with hardware sold like this is that it's too easy for people to take their device offline and jailbreak it, getting access to every feature without paying. DRM can stop people doing the same with software—though even then it rarely helps—but there's no such option with hardware. Unless you were to insist that the camera has wi-fi on at all times and only works when connected to an internet connection. Even then, people would jailbreak it, mod it, crack it open and get it working offline and with everything unlocked for free.

The closest you could get which wouldn't be prone to piracy would be a modular body, like medium format systems use. Make one basic shell that you can then snap different viewfinders, rear screens, and sensors/processors into. That has worked out well for a few medium format systems, but they also have the benefit of being extremely niche products which can command a high price tag to begin with, and they have far larger profit margins than 35mm (and smaller) cameras.


But Canon don't really need to branch into anything like that anyway. Fact is, cameras don't need to be a big deal. Camera bodies, other than medium and large format, have always been loss leaders. Lenses and accessories are where profit is. It's why Canon started the EF mount with some terrible bodies, instead putting all their R&D into the new lenses; they've done the same with the new RF mount. Bodies just exist to get people into the ecosystem. You know that every body you sell will also sell a lens, probably a spare battery, maybe something like a case or grip. Then half of all people will buy a second lens, maybe a third. A quarter of people or so will buy multiple lenses, batteries, grips, cases, flashes, etc. There are comparatively very few people who will ever buy multiple bodies, or at least not buy new bodies often enough for the money to add up. By leaving bodies as loss leaders and focusing on lenses and accessories instead, you won't make a huge profit off of everyone, but you're making a sustainable profit and the minority of people who will buy big kits of lenses will really pay off for you.
 

YuengLinger

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 20, 2012
2,626
746
Southeastern USA
Totally mad idea - but comments about which features Canon would/could sacrifice to make a low cost full frame camera got me thinking a bit.

So what if Canon built one fully featured mirrorless camera (say for conjecture a mirrorless 5D5) - rather than release it for £3.5 or even £4k - Canon puts it out at £1.5k, but with many of the advanced features disabled. Then, if we want some of those features - faster burst rate, recording onto a second card slot, 4K recording etc , we log onto the Canon website and pay a fee to unlock those features.

A bit of a radical departure from the present way of doing things - and yes producing a 'fully featured' camera with the processing power and second card slot etc already in place will cost more to produce. However there could be associated savings, such as only need to research and develop one model rather then a whole range. And if it allows more people to buy the camera with the features they want, that could be good (and heaven knows photographers like upgradeability!)

Total madness or a glimpse into the future?
I think you are onto something, but Canon should go a step farther and implement a subscription model such as Adobe has with the Creative Cloud. You'd pay monthly to keep features enabled, which means the camera would have to "check in" with Canon every month too. How easy it would be for Canon to simply shut down the EVF, etc. if payments are late.
 

cpreston

EOS T7i
Mar 22, 2014
99
40
I like the idea of a touch bar. I think it might work better if it was activated by a double tap or something. Maybe each double tap could activate a new up or down control mode such as kelvin or exposure or aperture. I find the hold to activate frustrating and it is too easy to accidentally change a setting if it is always activated.
 

TAF

EOS RP
Feb 26, 2012
344
35
Totally mad idea - but comments about which features Canon would/could sacrifice to make a low cost full frame camera got me thinking a bit.

So what if Canon built one fully featured mirrorless camera (say for conjecture a mirrorless 5D5) - rather than release it for £3.5 or even £4k - Canon puts it out at £1.5k, but with many of the advanced features disabled. Then, if we want some of those features - faster burst rate, recording onto a second card slot, 4K recording etc , we log onto the Canon website and pay a fee to unlock those features.

A bit of a radical departure from the present way of doing things - and yes producing a 'fully featured' camera with the processing power and second card slot etc already in place will cost more to produce. However there could be associated savings, such as only need to research and develop one model rather then a whole range. And if it allows more people to buy the camera with the features they want, that could be good (and heaven knows photographers like upgradeability!)

Total madness or a glimpse into the future?

That is the approach that Agilent has taken with some of their electronic test equipment. You buy a basic function generator (which looks just like the top of the line one), and then pay to enable the various advanced features you find you want. Eventually, you end up with the top of the line model, only in increments.

It will be interesting to see if they try something like this.
 

dak723

EOS 6D MK II
Oct 26, 2013
1,141
434
What can they possible do to make an even lower end EOS R?

They released the pretty much best lenses of their entire lineup and only a mirrorless 6d to use them... and now they release an even worse mirrorless camera?
It is REALY time for a professional EOS R, not another toy... what else are these high end lenses made for? Instagram posts with a 3000$ lense attached to a toy camera?
You do understand that Canon is building a system that they hope will last for decades. And that virtually no one needs a camera immediately. So, professional photographers can certainly wait another 6 months to a year (or more) to see what the R lineup will look ultimately look like.

And that the R can certainly be used professionally - as can any FF camera and many crop cameras as well.

And that they have released 4 lenses so far - so saying that they have released the "pretty much best lenses of their entire lineup" is rather silly, in my opinion.

And calling the "R" a "toy" and insinuating that those that will buy the R and even a lower end future R will be doing nothing more than posting them on instagram is totally insulting to both Canon and those photographers that are using the R to produce professional level photographs.

It will take years to build their R system. What exactly is your hurry?