More about the upcoming high-megapixel EOS R system camera [CR2]

SteveC

M50 & T6i
Sep 3, 2019
294
165
I'm thinking that we could see something like this develop:

A 1D--equivalent R (call it the R1)
A 5D-equivalent (call it the R5), replacing the current R
A 5D S equivalent (call it the R5S)
A new 6D (R6), replacing the current RP.

The "normal" sensors (for everything but the S) would maybe run about 50-60MP. The S model would have the full 83MP scaling up from the APS-C 32MP. There could even be S versions of the 1 and 6. You'd be trading more resolution for slower speed, lower fps.

Current 7D users could use any S version, cropped down to APS-C size, (or for that matter the non-S version) so I could see them using an R6S in crop mode. It might even be about the same price.
 

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D SR
Jan 28, 2015
3,972
1,532
Irving, Texas

Thanks for the education, and mea culpa.

It looks like you're right on the key point, with one nit that makes no difference: It appears you could say "no va" but it would be very unidiomatic. And it would sound different from "nova" (though that might not stop a punster from making the pun).

"Nova" gasoline, mentioned in the link, is of course the telling point.
Todo es culpa tuya. No son modos de comportarse. ¿es que no podemos hablar de esto como adultos? ;)
 

mkamelg

I'm New Here
Feb 1, 2015
12
6
Poland
Written from the point of view of EOS 5DS user since its release, now also from the point of view of EOS R user from a few months. This new camera model could own:


- basic ISO sensitivity down to level ISO 50 or lower as very high resolution sensors are extremely noisy, using EOS 5DS even on ISO 100 especially when taking photos on a hot day you can be unpleasantly surprised



- some form of sensor stabilization, which in combination with lens stabilization will allow you to use some more sensible exposure times when taking hand-held photos (in EOS 5DS, going below 1/250 sec. may cause problems with taking a non-blurred photo)



- some form of sensor cooling (maybe something like what is in the Panasonic Lumix DC-S1H camera) to limit the number of dead/stuck/hot pixels when taking night photos with longer exposure times, the sensor in EOS 5DS after several years of use resembles a multi-colored constellation



- lithium polymer battery with a larger capacity to increase the speed of writing data to memory cards and increase the efficiency of the processor or processors due to the greater energy supplied to the camera

- more silent fully mechanical shutter


- reinstatement of light sensor that was missing in EOS R so that both displays (rear LCD panel and EVF) could adjust their brightness to the prevailing lighting conditions



- reinstatement of instant picture cropping function (FULL, 1.3, 1.6, 1:1, 4:3, 16:9) under the M-Fn button which is present in EOS 5DS and is not present in EOS R which I personally think is a great scandal



- elimination of error occurring in EOS R causing random hanging of the camera during manual switching between the rear LCD panel and EVF, this error has still not been eliminated in the latest firmware version 1.3.0 and I wrote about it here https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?threads/eos-r-af-with-1-2-0-firmware.37259/#post-783042 when I had earlier versions of firmware installed.
 

Otara

EOS RP
Jul 16, 2012
284
65
That error sounds like a pain but Ive never had it. Hope it does get fixed in the release but Ive never seen it mentioned anywhere else, so you might have a dud unit or bad firmware update. I hope it gets resolved.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,604
2,060

StoicalEtcher

EOS 80D
Jan 3, 2018
152
62
Yorkshire
- some form of sensor cooling (maybe something like what is in the Panasonic Lumix DC-S1H camera) to limit the number of dead/stuck/hot pixels when taking night photos with longer exposure times, the sensor in EOS 5DS after several years of use resembles a multi-colored constellation
That's interesting (to me at least). I've not come across that as a concern before.

I know all sensors will eventually develop the odd hot pixel, but never heard of it on that sort of magnitude before. Is it a common 5Ds issue, something to do with the ever smaller size of pixels do you think?

Anyone else had this issue on a 5Ds or other FF sensor?

Thanks
Stoical.
 

Normalnorm

EOS 7D MK II
Dec 25, 2012
522
130
I'm thinking that we could see something like this develop:

A 1D--equivalent R (call it the R1)
A 5D-equivalent (call it the R5), replacing the current R
A 5D S equivalent (call it the R5S)
A new 6D (R6), replacing the current RP.

The "normal" sensors (for everything but the S) would maybe run about 50-60MP. The S model would have the full 83MP scaling up from the APS-C 32MP. There could even be S versions of the 1 and 6. You'd be trading more resolution for slower speed, lower fps.

Current 7D users could use any S version, cropped down to APS-C size, (or for that matter the non-S version) so I could see them using an R6S in crop mode. It might even be about the same price.
I agree with maybe the R5 could be about 40MP with a plain doubling to the S and just 20MP for the 1.

As for nomenclature the R5 was a Renault of the 70's (one I liked) and the R1 is a Sony tag so can't do that. So maybe 5R "fiver?" oops, online sweatshop company. :rolleyes:
 

mkamelg

I'm New Here
Feb 1, 2015
12
6
Poland
Have you contacted Canon?
Yes of course. I contacted several times with Canon Services & Support for my country. I wrote them what settings I use and they were unable to replicate the error I noticed on their copy of the camera with firmware 1.2.0.

They wrote to me later to send the camera to a service so I did it. The service checked the camera and both adapters (EF-EOS R and Control Ring Mount Adapter EF-EOS R) and found that everything was fine.

If they spent say five minutes with the camera trying to replicate this error, it is not surprising that they did not detect anything because it manifests itself at random times. You can catch it ten minutes after starting the camera, "reset" this error*, take photos later throughout the day and catch it again at the end of the day.

*By "reset" this error" I mean having assigned to some button under the tab "C.Fn4: Operation" under "Customize buttons" function "Switch between VF/screen” and then switch with this button briefly to the EVF and back on the LCD display.

I know all sensors will eventually develop the odd hot pixel, but never heard of it on that sort of magnitude before. Is it a common 5Ds issue, something to do with the ever smaller size of pixels do you think?
I believe that this is a scale effect. The larger the sensor, the more problems visible on it.

Maybe I exaggerated a bit with this constellation but... I currently have three cameras in stock at home: Fujifilm X-M1 (16 Mpix) since 2014, Canon EOS 5DS (50 Mpix) since 2015 and Canon EOS R (30 Mpix) since 2019.

In 2018 I did a simple "test" based on JPEG files from Canon EOS 5DS and Fujifilm X-M1. Based on JPEG files because they are independent of the photo processing software used. You can download them from here https://1drv.ms/u/s!Asmd3i9rvqAblmopWfhPRXRHAsks?e=fvg4ai and then increase the exposure to the maximum plus in the photo processing program you use (on example in Lightroom in Develop mode). Do you see any difference?
 
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SteveC

M50 & T6i
Sep 3, 2019
294
165
I agree with maybe the R5 could be about 40MP with a plain doubling to the S and just 20MP for the 1.

As for nomenclature the R5 was a Renault of the 70's (one I liked) and the R1 is a Sony tag so can't do that. So maybe 5R "fiver?" oops, online sweatshop company. :rolleyes:
I created that notional nomenclature for convenience--the "R6" is just the RF version of the 6D, etc.

I wouldn't expect Canon to follow that, by any means, but I hope they DO decide to do something that won't just be totally random looking (RX, RS, RP, R...). At least the numbers have a progression--mostly.
 
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Joules

EOS RP
Jul 16, 2017
277
183
Hamburg, Germany
80 megapixels? Its probably going to cost $5k and get ready to spend thousands more on a new computer to handle the massive files, ridiculous. This pretty much confirms that the EOS R is all we are getting. Nothing in the 30-40MP range with IBIS, dual card slots, full 4K video etc...Canon is pathetic.
This camera has a high chance of getting IBIS, based on all the patents we've seen in the recent past. Full 4K video is basically a guarantee as the M6 II can do that now, although it seems that it used an inferior means to get there compared to the slightly cropped 90D 4K mode. Dual card slots aren't so unreasonable, given that this will probably be priced above the R. 5k seems like an unreasonable expectation, given how much cheaper than the 5D IV the R is, and how cheap the 5DS is.

And reduced resolution modes will be there for sure. In this camera they could go for actual binning to get a ~20 MP image. Or simply downscale the RAW file in camera. They'll probably offer a solution for that.

All in all, that doesn't seem pathetic to me. They filled out the lower half of their lineup, were the challenges are maybe not as difficult, and now comes the higher end, where they can show off their new tech. The refresh of the R and RP will come at some point, and by then Canon will have all their ML tech on a level that leaves Sony with little Space to run off to.
 
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StoicalEtcher

EOS 80D
Jan 3, 2018
152
62
Yorkshire
I believe that this is a scale effect. The larger the sensor, the more problems visible on it.

Maybe I exaggerated a bit with this constellation but... I currently have three cameras in stock at home: Fujifilm X-M1 (16 Mpix) since 2014, Canon EOS 5DS (50 Mpix) since 2015 and Canon EOS R (30 Mpix) since 2019.

In 2018 I did a simple "test" based on JPEG files from Canon EOS 5DS and Fujifilm X-M1. Based on JPEG files because they are independent of the photo processing software used. You can download them from here https://1drv.ms/u/s!Asmd3i9rvqAblmopWfhPRXRHAsks?e=fvg4ai and then increase the exposure to the maximum plus in the photo processing program you use (on example in Lightroom in Develop mode). Do you see any difference?
mkameig,
Many thanks for your response. (I haven't downloaded the files, as our system here doesn't allow downloads from 'unknown sources', but I appreciate you going to the trouble to share).

Still interested to hear whether other 5Ds users have experienced unusually high numbers of hot pixels?

Stoical.
 

AaronT

EOS 80D
Jan 5, 2013
157
224
mkameig,
Many thanks for your response. (I haven't downloaded the files, as our system here doesn't allow downloads from 'unknown sources', but I appreciate you going to the trouble to share).

Still interested to hear whether other 5Ds users have experienced unusually high numbers of hot pixels?

Stoical.
Hi Stoical. I did a 30 second, ISO 100, lens cap on exposure with my 2 and a half year old 5DSr. The first one is no noise reduction ( nobark.com/5DSrHotPixels/1911.CR2 ) and the second one is with noise reduction on ( nobark.com/5DSrHotPixels/1912.CR2 ). I counted 4 hot pixels on the first, none on the second. I have never noticed them in normal use.
 

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D SR
Jan 28, 2015
3,972
1,532
Irving, Texas
Hi Stoical. I did a 30 second, ISO 100, lens cap on exposure with my 2 and a half year old 5DSr. The first one is no noise reduction ( nobark.com/5DSrHotPixels/1911.CR2 ) and the second one is with noise reduction on ( nobark.com/5DSrHotPixels/1912.CR2 ). I counted 4 hot pixels on the first, none on the second. I have never noticed them in normal use.
I never knew lens cap on exposure was a thing. Learn something new everyday. I assume because it is very hard to see a few hot pixels, out of millions, under normal conditions? Then what does one do when one finds a hot pixel? Does Canon replace the sensor? Do they show up on prints?
 
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StoicalEtcher

EOS 80D
Jan 3, 2018
152
62
Yorkshire
Hi Stoical. I did a 30 second, ISO 100, lens cap on exposure with my 2 and a half year old 5DSr. The first one is no noise reduction ( nobark.com/5DSrHotPixels/1911.CR2 ) and the second one is with noise reduction on ( nobark.com/5DSrHotPixels/1912.CR2 ). I counted 4 hot pixels on the first, none on the second. I have never noticed them in normal use.
Thanks AaronT,
4 hot pixels doesn't sound too bad, to me at least - not something that would be overly obvious in normal everyday use, as you say.
Cheers
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,651
2,886
Hi Stoical. I did a 30 second, ISO 100, lens cap on exposure with my 2 and a half year old 5DSr. The first one is no noise reduction ( nobark.com/5DSrHotPixels/1911.CR2 ) and the second one is with noise reduction on ( nobark.com/5DSrHotPixels/1912.CR2 ). I counted 4 hot pixels on the first, none on the second. I have never noticed them in normal use.
You got me doing the same exposure on my ancient 5DSR with a body cap on, and then a 150s exposure. I then inverted the colours in PS so the hot pixels would show up as black on a white background. Basically, there were no hot pixels just some very, very faint grey ones, presumably due to noise. The file size increased from 48 mpx to 48.1 on increasing exposure 5 fold. Thanks for the idea.
 
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AaronT

EOS 80D
Jan 5, 2013
157
224
I never knew lens cap on exposure was a thing. Learn something new everyday. I assume because it is very hard to see a few hot pixels, out of millions, under normal conditions? Then what does one do when one finds a hot pixel? Does Canon replace the sensor? Do they show up on prints?
If you have just a few hot/dead pixels and they don't show up in your photos, my don't, just forget about them. Out of many millions they are not significant. if you have a bunch then Canon can "map" them out. Dust on the sensor is a much bigger problem than a few bad pixels.
 
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CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D SR
Jan 28, 2015
3,972
1,532
Irving, Texas
If you have just a few hot/dead pixels and they don't show up in your photos, my don't, just forget about them. Out of many millions they are not significant. if you have a bunch then Canon can "map" them out. Dust on the sensor is a much bigger problem than a few bad pixels.
Ahhh... I think the wifes Olympus can map them out in camera.