Canon Announces the EOS M50 Mirrorless Camera

[Talys]

I really should not be surprised, but I am. Why would a company make a product great by pairing their most powerful feature- DPAF- with a new feature- 4K (okay, new to Canon cameras)- that so many people wanted. They ALMOST had my money.

I suspect that this is because it will be a differentiator between their $740 camera, and their future $1000 camera. After all, what other $740 camera has DPAF 4k video?

 

[transpo1]

Wow, no DPAF in 4K. Never mind, no longer interested. Maybe next time, Canon.

Wow, is this true?

Yep

I really should not be surprised, but I am. Why would a company make a product great by pairing their most powerful feature- DPAF- with a new feature- 4K (okay, new to Canon cameras)- that so many people wanted. They ALMOST had my money.

Because that would make it much too attractive for people ;D

The crop was kinda expected (although I think it comes out to ~ 2.5 FF equiv which is fairly heavy) but the lack of dpaf means it doesn't really have any standout video feature as a canon camera.

So much for getting the vloggers back.

 

[transpo1]

I really should not be surprised, but I am. Why would a company make a product great by pairing their most powerful feature- DPAF- with a new feature- 4K (okay, new to Canon cameras)- that so many people wanted. They ALMOST had my money.

I suspect that this is because it will be a differentiator between their $740 camera, and their future $1000 camera.

Fair enough- let’s get that camera out, then. Time to turn out some good products instead of protecting future brackets of ones that don’t exist yet.

 

[goldenhusky]

It is 2018. UHS ll was introduced back in 2011 and it is expected to be in a camera in 2018.

But if it's of zero benefit, and UHS II cards just cost more, who cares?

Yep it is definitely of no use for you

 

[ritholtz]

Crop factory and no dpaf in 4k is disappointing. Let us see if at least matches with M5 with rest of the stuff except those missing physical buttons. Don't know why did they release this. Instead, they should just reduce price of M5.

 

[rrcphoto]

It is 2018. UHS ll was introduced back in 2011 and it is expected to be in a camera in 2018.

But if it's of zero benefit, and UHS II cards just cost more, who cares?

Yep it is definitely of no use for you

no real use to anyone unless there's the communication lanes available to run it at a higher bus speed, outside of looking like the ultimate spec sheet warrior.

 

[rrcphoto]

Crop factory and no dpaf in 4k is disappointing. Let us see if at least matches with M5 with rest of the stuff except those missing physical buttons. Don't know why did they release this. Instead, they should just reduce price of M5.

why would it have to match the M5 - it's really sitting above the M100. not around the M6/M5 level of cameras.

 

[Talys]

It is 2018. UHS ll was introduced back in 2011 and it is expected to be in a camera in 2018.

But if it's of zero benefit, and UHS II cards just cost more, who cares?

Yep it is definitely of no use for you

UHS II cards are a way more expensive, so what's the point, unless the camera does something that takes advantage of the faster card?

I'm not saying that UHS II cards serve no purpose; just that they serve no purpose in this camera because of limitations either in other subsystems or artificially imposed to fit a $740 price point.

Crop factory and no dpaf in 4k is disappointing. Let us see if at least matches with M5 with rest of the stuff except those missing physical buttons. Don't know why did they release this. Instead, they should just reduce price of M5.

why would it have to match the M5 - it's really sitting above the M100. not around the M6/M5 level of cameras.

Right -- it should have specs between the M100 and M5/6, but (as with most Canon consumer body releases) because it's newer, it will get some nice features that will make it into the next M5/6's.

 

[Isaacheus]

For the further cropping in 4K video, does it mean that it will use a small part of the censor but focal length remains the same as APS-C?

The sensor's resolution is 6000x4000 (=24mp). 4k is 3840x2160.

1.6 crop factor, if you applied it proportionately to the sensor would give you 3750x2500, but of course, the aspect ratio is different. So all 1.6 crop means is that Canon is taking the center 3840 pixels horizontally and the center 2160 pixels vertically when recording video.

The lens hasn't changed, so the focal length remains the same as APSC for the purposes of perspective. But for field of view, because you're only getting the center 1.6 out of APSC, you'll need a wider angle lens to capture the same frame.

In practice, it looks like the 15-45mm kit lens on this would have a ~38 - 112mm effective focal length when using the 4k video mode, which is pretty similar to the ~40 - 120mmangle you get on the 5dmk4 with a 24-70mm lens in that camera's 4k mode.

 

[rrcphoto]

I really should not be surprised, but I am. Why would a company make a product great by pairing their most powerful feature- DPAF- with a new feature- 4K (okay, new to Canon cameras)- that so many people wanted. They ALMOST had my money.

I suspect that this is because it will be a differentiator between their $740 camera, and their future $1000 camera. After all, what other $740 camera has DPAF 4k video?

performance tweaks I'm sure need to be done. they have to sample 8 million AF points in between frames for DPAF. contrast is taken as part of the frame capture.

 

[ritholtz]

Crop factory and no dpaf in 4k is disappointing. Let us see if at least matches with M5 with rest of the stuff except those missing physical buttons. Don't know why did they release this. Instead, they should just reduce price of M5.

why would it have to match the M5 - it's really sitting above the M100. not around the M6/M5 level of cameras.

It doesn't need to match. If it does, that is a bonus for me.

 

[syyeung1]

For the further cropping in 4K video, does it mean that it will use a small part of the censor but focal length remains the same as APS-C?

The sensor's resolution is 6000x4000 (=24mp). 4k is 3840x2160.

1.6 crop factor, if you applied it proportionately to the sensor would give you 3750x2500, but of course, the aspect ratio is different. So all 1.6 crop means is that Canon is taking the center 3840 pixels horizontally and the center 2160 pixels vertically when recording video.

The lens hasn't changed, so the focal length remains the same as APSC for the purposes of perspective. But for field of view, because you're only getting the center 1.6 out of APSC, you'll need a wider angle lens to capture the same frame.

So the crop factor can be partially compensated with the 11-22 lens. Not sure how the small sensor area will affect the overall quality. Also, not sure how bad the contrast AF performance is.

 

[Talys]

I suspect that this is because it will be a differentiator between their $740 camera, and their future $1000 camera. After all, what other $740 camera has DPAF 4k video?

performance tweaks I'm sure need to be done. they have to sample 8 million AF points in between frames for DPAF. contrast is taking as part of the frame capture.

No doubt. I suspect that there will be a DIGIC 8 camera that supports DPAF 4k at some point, though. Of course, that's just a wild guess on my part

After all, this is Canon. They always have to leave something for the next body 8)

For the further cropping in 4K video, does it mean that it will use a small part of the censor but focal length remains the same as APS-C?

The sensor's resolution is 6000x4000 (=24mp). 4k is 3840x2160.

1.6 crop factor, if you applied it proportionately to the sensor would give you 3750x2500, but of course, the aspect ratio is different. So all 1.6 crop means is that Canon is taking the center 3840 pixels horizontally and the center 2160 pixels vertically when recording video.

The lens hasn't changed, so the focal length remains the same as APSC for the purposes of perspective. But for field of view, because you're only getting the center 1.6 out of APSC, you'll need a wider angle lens to capture the same frame.

In practice, it looks like the 15-45mm kit lens on this would have a ~38 - 112mm effective focal length when using the 4k video mode, which is pretty similar to the ~40 - 120mmangle you get on the 5dmk4 with a 24-70mm lens in that camera's 4k mode.

Yeah, that sounds right.

5D4's crop mode is 1.7 (because it's a 30 megapixel sensor, less is used), but it's pretty close to the same crop factor, so we can just figure on using the regular APSC to FF lens conversion factor when figuring field of view.

 

[goldenhusky]

It says silent shooting but there is no mention of an electronic shutter. Sounds like another gimmick. I would be happy to proven wrong here

There is no electronic shutter. It is yet another Canon's "innovation" like Dual pixel RAW in 5D4 confirmed.

 

[Talys]

So the crop factor can be partially compensated with the 11-22 lens. Not sure how the small sensor area will affect the overall quality. Also, not sure how bad the contrast AF performance is.

Definitely. The small sensor area gives you the center of the lens, and on consumer lenses, that's a big plus, since the corners are usually comparatively crappy.

AF can't be worse than pre-DPAF cameras (like a t5i in live view). And it certainly can't be worse than Nikon ;D

 

[rrcphoto]

It says silent shooting but there is no mention of an electronic shutter. Sounds like another gimmick. I would be happy to proven wrong here

There is no electronic shutter. It is yet another Canon's "innovation" like Dual pixel RAW in 5D4 confirmed.

nothing with with DPRAW. Canon needs to make strides in computational post processing. no one else is.

You really need to take a break from the keyboard a bit. you're getting a bit much.

it says virtually no shutter sound, so it will be interesting to see how they implemented that *without* going electronic.

 

[rrcphoto]

So the crop factor can be partially compensated with the 11-22 lens. Not sure how the small sensor area will affect the overall quality. Also, not sure how bad the contrast AF performance is.

Definitely. The small sensor area gives you the center of the lens, and on consumer lenses, that's a big plus, since the corners are usually comparatively crappy.

AF can't be worse than pre-DPAF cameras (like a t5i in live view). And it certainly can't be worse than Nikon ;D

Kai did a video, it hunts like CDAF, it appears rather disappointing.

still probably not as bad as nikon though.

there's still some cool things that I'll look forward to on a M5 Mark II.. the quiet shutter wil be nice, the automatic image transfer will be as well.

AF is down to -2EV versus -1EV in prior sensors.

not as good as alot would have liked but at least, finally .h264 4K made it into DIGIC.

 

[mistaspeedy]

Please remember that this is a mid-entry level mirrorless camera, and that it costs $779.
I'm sure that they will introduce other models with better specifications (less limitations), later on.

Up until now, if you wanted 4K and DPAF, you needed to pay at least $3,300 (5D mark IV).

We will probably get a model that does both, but it will probably cost at least $1,000 (even $2000 wouldnt surprise me)

The Sony a6500 costs $1300 can do 30 minutes, unless it overheats (your luck may vary).
The Fujifilm X-H1 costs $1900 but can only record 4K for 15 minutes (or 1080p for 20 minutes) unless you buy an extra $330 battery grip.

So we can't really expect the same features for $779 (on a APSC-sized sensor).


Side note: I guess the 1.6x 4K crop will generate sales for the 11-22mm lens.
I wonder what the quality of 1080p video will be like... can we have DPAF and nice, crisp, clear 1080p from the full sensor?

 

[goldenhusky]

It says silent shooting but there is no mention of an electronic shutter. Sounds like another gimmick. I would be happy to proven wrong here

There is no electronic shutter. It is yet another Canon's "innovation" like Dual pixel RAW in 5D4 confirmed.

nothing with with DPRAW. Canon needs to make strides in computational post processing. no one else is.

You really need to take a break from the keyboard a bit. you're getting a bit much.

it says virtually no shutter sound, so it will be interesting to see how they implemented that *without* going electronic.

I don't need your advice just mind your own business.

 

[transpo1]

For the further cropping in 4K video, does it mean that it will use a small part of the censor but focal length remains the same as APS-C?

The sensor's resolution is 6000x4000 (=24mp). 4k is 3840x2160.

1.6 crop factor, if you applied it proportionately to the sensor would give you 3750x2500, but of course, the aspect ratio is different. So all 1.6 crop means is that Canon is taking the center 3840 pixels horizontally and the center 2160 pixels vertically when recording video.

The lens hasn't changed, so the focal length remains the same as APSC for the purposes of perspective. But for field of view, because you're only getting the center 1.6 out of APSC, you'll need a wider angle lens to capture the same frame.

In practice, it looks like the 15-45mm kit lens on this would have a ~38 - 112mm effective focal length when using the 4k video mode, which is pretty similar to the ~40 - 120mmangle you get on the 5dmk4 with a 24-70mm lens in that camera's 4k mode.

It’s too bad about the crop and no 4K DPAF. Together, those kill a lot of interest in this camera.