Canon Announces the EOS M50 Mirrorless Camera

MayaTlab

EOS 90D
Oct 6, 2015
193
82
3dit0r said:
But it does send very mixed signals to those looking to the future of Canon's higher-end DSLR/mirrorless options; is this just 'crippling' an entry level camera to protect higher end models, or does it signify that Canon still don't recognise that the heavy 4K video crop has been very unpopular, and forgetting that, on full frame cameras at least, that they have no lenses suitable for wideangle shots on that 1.7 crop? Or does it mean that they simply don't have the sensor/processing tech yet to compete with other brands which have been perfecting this tech in full-frame or near full-readout APS-C for some time?

Regarding cropped 4K and lack of DPAF at this resolution I'm fairly certain that it isn't crippling, but rather a sensor readout speed issue. Canon engineers probably know very well how to improve that spec, but I guess that Canon is reluctant to commit to processes to make the production of such sensors a reality, at least at a given price point. The same goes for the 6DII, Canon probably can't produce x design for a sufficiently low price to make it a reality.

This is actually kind of worrying because it was all fine and dandy when Canon simply lagged behind in terms of DR, now with video and mirrorless cameras it's basic operational capabilities that are lagging behind. The Sony A9's silent shutter, for example, seems totally out of reach for Canon for a few years at least.

On a positive note we finally seem to have an efficient Digic that can do 4K in H264.
 

Sharlin

EOS R
CR Pro
Dec 26, 2015
1,375
1,315
Turku, Finland
TonyPicture said:
Sharlin said:
Yeah, M5 indeed has it too. But IBIS usually is taken to mean stabilization based on physically moving the sensor. Which no Canon cameras has.
They both have '5-axis electronic image stabilization (IBIS?)' I think you're a little confused as to what IBIS actually means...

I don't think I'm the confused one here. Even though some random youtuber might call the digital video stabilization "IBIS", that's not how the term is understood by most people. Note that Canon themselves definitely don't call the video stabilization feature "in-body image stabilization". And the "5-axis" part is only when coupled with a lens with actual physical stabilization. The cameras that do implement "actual" IBIS do so by physically moving the sensor, meaning that both stills and video are stabilized and there's no extra cropping involved.
 

espressino

sigh.
Feb 26, 2018
33
16
So this is a great little camera, and it's marketed as an entry-level one (at, perhaps, not quite an entry-level price just now, but the price will surely drop a little bit going forward) but there are two things that really bother me: the battery is actually a dealbreaker. A friend of mine uses the M10 and the LP-E12 is borderline annoying since it barely edges through a full day of shooting on vacation. I'm not convinced the LP-E12 will perform a lot better in the M50 when shooting 4K videos. And I don't think vloggers will be too enthusiastic about having to swap batteries every half an hour or so.
The other thing doesn't concern the camera itself but what I'd call conditional or asterisked marketing (which appears to be more pronounced on the Canon Europe website): 10 fps! (oh, but only with locked focus. Under normal conditions it's 7.4 fps. Which is still impressive, so why not advertise that?) Silent shutter! (Oh, but only in a special scene mode; it is one of the scene modes just like for night photography or HDR). Enlarged AF area! (Nevermind, to all intents and purposes it's still 80%x80% if you want to use DPAF). I have a hunch that they do this so the 'better' specs can be displayed on camera ranking websites, and then it's up to the consumer to find out which is a 'true' spec and which one is inflated. Whether 10 or 7.4 fps really doesn't make much of a difference for hobby photographers (of which I am one), but to me it leaves a bad aftertaste which then actually eclipses the many great features of a totally capable camera. Case in point is the interplay between camera and the Camera Connect App, where every single camera model seems to support a different set of features, and you really have to geek up beforehand to know whether your camera is going to perform as the marketing might have lead you to believe (EOS 77D: bluetooth only serves to establish wifi connection, no GPS support in app; M6: GPS support in app and smartphone remote via bluetooth connection; SL2: GPS support in app; m10: wifi remote but not via eos utility on a computer etc. etc.), and those are absolutely arbitrary limitations which of course help market segmentation but also lead to costumer frustration. And it becomes especially infuriating when a cheaper camera supports a feature (GPS data via app) that a more expensive one doesn't.
 

mistaspeedy

EOS RP
Apr 5, 2015
236
6
This little camera might just be the right thing for me. One thing that concerned me about the 77D (basically
identical price) is the lack of autofocus micro-adjustment (AFMA) when using the viewfinder.
I was also considering the 200D (SL2), but it has an ancient autofocus system and no AFMA.
Since mirrorless dont have microdjustment issues, this is no longer an issue.

I tend to leave my Canon 1D mark II at home because it is too big, and Im looking for something a lot smaller and lighter.

The M5 costs a bit too much for my liking, and I wont consider anything without a good built in viewfinder or some sort of grip.
I would also like focus peaking, so I can adapt old lenses or use Samyang (Rokinon) prime lenses like the 85mm F1.4.

It seems to tick a lot of boxes although it isnt perfect.

However, with an eos ef to m adapter, Im back up at the price of an 80D which has AFMA and 1/8000 shutter speed, etc.
 

Khufu

...
Aug 2, 2013
334
0
35
Merseyside, UK
www.facebook.com
I just watched a few videos, and I think it was a quick dpreview teaser which confirmed for me that the FHD video mode lacks the 3x video crop mode...

I believe it's made its return in the 200D, it's around in the 70D & 80D (thought not 5D4 or 6D2) and I use it lots with my EOS M2, alas since the EOS M series became glorified Powershot projects instead of having EOS firmware the option has disappeared...

I'm desperate for an EOS M with a viewfinder & flippy screen and 1:1 pixel HD shooting... They're annoying everyone by making 4K shoot this way, they've done it before with HD (and still do in some models) why not just activate the HD option?!

I'm sure someone at Canon is out to see just how many ways they can disappoint different people with all kinds of both mainstream and niche hopes for their products...
 
Nov 3, 2014
698
508
How dare Canon release an entry level mirror-less targeted at smartphone users without including 4K specs rivaling their cinema series cameras! Have they no shame!
 

fussy III

EOS M6 Mark II
Mar 6, 2013
99
1
Canon Rumors said:
The new silent mode can shoot without any shutter sound

There have been exactly two reasons for which I would have bought this camera:
1) silent shooting for wildlife
2) Dual Pixel AF in 4K

Today I not only found out about the Dual-Pixel-4K-crippling but also that silent shooting cannot be used in M or Av modes: "Canon has also included a silent shooting mode that uses a fully electronic shutter – the first time this has appeared on a EOS camera. Frustratingly, though, it’s only available from a fully automated mode that’s accessed from the SCN position on the exposure-mode dial. The electronic shutter can’t apparently be selected in any other shooting mode, which feels like a missed opportunity." See http://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/canon-eos-m50

Despite the Dual-4K-crippling, the lower price of the EOS M50 as compared to the a6500 and a possibly better continous photo-AF in combination with EF-lenses would still have made the M50 a camera to consider for my main purpose which is shooting absolutely silently with my existing EF-lenses. But under no circumstances will I start operating my camera in fully automatic exposure mode. So I guess I will have yet another Sony in my bag (besides the A7s) soon.

Canon: You are amazing me with every other release. "Frustrating our faithful customers" seems to be point number ONE in your tick-off list before any camera-release. I cannot express my disappointment. I am absolutely stunned. Do they really know what they are doing?
 

-pekr-

EOS R5
CR Pro
fussy III said:
Canon Rumors said:
The new silent mode can shoot without any shutter sound

There have been exactly two reasons for which I would have bought this camera:
1) silent shooting for wildlife
2) Dual Pixel AF in 4K

Today I not only found out about the Dual-Pixel-4K-crippling but also that silent shooting cannot be used in M or Av modes: "Canon has also included a silent shooting mode that uses a fully electronic shutter – the first time this has appeared on a EOS camera. Frustratingly, though, it’s only available from a fully automated mode that’s accessed from the SCN position on the exposure-mode dial. The electronic shutter can’t apparently be selected in any other shooting mode, which feels like a missed opportunity." See http://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/canon-eos-m50

Despite the Dual-4K-crippling, the lower price of the EOS M50 as compared to the a6500 and a possibly better continous photo-AF in combination with EF-lenses would still have made the M50 a camera to consider for my main purpose which is shooting absolutely silently with my existing EF-lenses. But under no circumstances will I start operating my camera in fully automatic exposure mode. So I guess I will have yet another Sony in my bag (besides the A7s) soon.

Canon: You are amazing me with every other release. "Frustrating our faithful customers" seems to be point number ONE in your tick-off list before any camera-release. I cannot express my disappointment. I am absolutely stunned. Do they really know what they are doing?

You should think twice before posting here :) Now gurus will come and prove you wrong, using arguments like successful sales figures, knowing how to do your exposure correctly, wanting professional features at half the price and similar stuff :)
 

exquisitor

EOS M6 Mark II
Apr 30, 2015
76
0
MayaTlab said:
3dit0r said:
But it does send very mixed signals to those looking to the future of Canon's higher-end DSLR/mirrorless options; is this just 'crippling' an entry level camera to protect higher end models, or does it signify that Canon still don't recognise that the heavy 4K video crop has been very unpopular, and forgetting that, on full frame cameras at least, that they have no lenses suitable for wideangle shots on that 1.7 crop? Or does it mean that they simply don't have the sensor/processing tech yet to compete with other brands which have been perfecting this tech in full-frame or near full-readout APS-C for some time?

Regarding cropped 4K and lack of DPAF at this resolution I'm fairly certain that it isn't crippling, but rather a sensor readout speed issue. Canon engineers probably know very well how to improve that spec, but I guess that Canon is reluctant to commit to processes to make the production of such sensors a reality, at least at a given price point. The same goes for the 6DII, Canon probably can't produce x design for a sufficiently low price to make it a reality.

This is actually kind of worrying because it was all fine and dandy when Canon simply lagged behind in terms of DR, now with video and mirrorless cameras it's basic operational capabilities that are lagging behind. The Sony A9's silent shutter, for example, seems totally out of reach for Canon for a few years at least.

On a positive note we finally seem to have an efficient Digic that can do 4K in H264.

Exactly. For this reason DPAF is available at FHD and HD resolution, which still makes it very capable for video. But I think this is rather a processing problem, not a readout (sensor) problem.1DXII and 5DIV both have dual DIGIC processors and they both have DPAF at 4K. 6DII has only one DIGIC 7 and subsequently no 4K at all. Obviously DIGIC 8 now allows for 4K, but without DPAF.
 

jayphotoworks

EOS RP
Aug 11, 2016
268
111
We laugh at Sony for releasing a high powered spec list to then pad it with caveats. Looks like Canon is going that route as well. 4K*! 1.6 Crop**! 5 Axis IS*** Silent Shutter****!

* No DPAF in 4K
** "Inception Crop": 1.6 4K crop on top of a 1.6 APS-C Crop
*** Gyro Lens+Digital IS. Sensor fixed
**** Only in Full Auto Scene Modes
 

MayaTlab

EOS 90D
Oct 6, 2015
193
82
exquisitor said:
MayaTlab said:
3dit0r said:
But it does send very mixed signals to those looking to the future of Canon's higher-end DSLR/mirrorless options; is this just 'crippling' an entry level camera to protect higher end models, or does it signify that Canon still don't recognise that the heavy 4K video crop has been very unpopular, and forgetting that, on full frame cameras at least, that they have no lenses suitable for wideangle shots on that 1.7 crop? Or does it mean that they simply don't have the sensor/processing tech yet to compete with other brands which have been perfecting this tech in full-frame or near full-readout APS-C for some time?

Regarding cropped 4K and lack of DPAF at this resolution I'm fairly certain that it isn't crippling, but rather a sensor readout speed issue. Canon engineers probably know very well how to improve that spec, but I guess that Canon is reluctant to commit to processes to make the production of such sensors a reality, at least at a given price point. The same goes for the 6DII, Canon probably can't produce x design for a sufficiently low price to make it a reality.

This is actually kind of worrying because it was all fine and dandy when Canon simply lagged behind in terms of DR, now with video and mirrorless cameras it's basic operational capabilities that are lagging behind. The Sony A9's silent shutter, for example, seems totally out of reach for Canon for a few years at least.

On a positive note we finally seem to have an efficient Digic that can do 4K in H264.

Exactly. For this reason DPAF is available at FHD and HD resolution, which still makes it very capable for video. But I think this is rather a processing problem, not a readout (sensor) problem.1DXII and 5DIV both have dual DIGIC processors and they both have DPAF at 4K. 6DII has only one DIGIC 7 and subsequently no 4K at all. Obviously DIGIC 8 now allows for 4K, but without DPAF.

I don't think that it's processing. Other factors point to a low readout speed from Canon sensors, such as the M line's inability to show a live view feed from the sensor when doing C-AF in burst mode.

EDIT : besides, Imaging-Resource mentions that "when recording 4K UHD video, which has four times the pixels than Full HD video, the M50 can still record for up to 29 minutes and 59 seconds, which is an impressive recording limit for 4K in this class. The bit rate of 4K video is 120 Mbps.", which seems to indicate that at least on the video processing side, the new Digic is fairly powerful : https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/canon-eos-m50/canon-eos-m50A.HTM
 

MayaTlab

EOS 90D
Oct 6, 2015
193
82
jayphotoworks said:
We laugh at Sony for releasing a high powered spec list to then pad it with caveats. Looks like Canon is going that route as well. 4K*! 1.6 Crop**! 5 Axis IS*** Silent Shutter****!

* No DPAF in 4K
** "Inception Crop": 1.6 4K crop on top of a 1.6 APS-C Crop
*** Gyro Lens+Digital IS. Sensor fixed
**** Only in Full Auto Scene Modes

Well it's working : doing a search on Google about the M50 ruveals that most headlines mention that it serves 4K realness, even though it's busted 4K.
But yeah that camera is basically Canon's attempt to dust a catfish with chicken cutlets padding to dress up the spec list to eleganza extravaganza levels, but I'm clocking that mug and I'm not gagging.
Anyway no T no shade the M50 isn't flooding my basement, I'm just totally flazéda about it.
Come on Canon, when will you be sick'ning ?
 

ritholtz

EOS RP
Mar 25, 2014
588
14
jayphotoworks said:
We laugh at Sony for releasing a high powered spec list to then pad it with caveats. Looks like Canon is going that route as well. 4K*! 1.6 Crop**! 5 Axis IS*** Silent Shutter****!

* No DPAF in 4K
** "Inception Crop": 1.6 4K crop on top of a 1.6 APS-C Crop
*** Gyro Lens+Digital IS. Sensor fixed
**** Only in Full Auto Scene Modes
Yup. Older Nikons as with some limitations with Aperture change in video. There is also 12bit limit with continuous shooting like Sony. Canon is just doing like Sony with 2-4 years delay.
 

justaCanonuser

Grab your camera, go out and shoot!
Feb 12, 2014
859
713
Frankfurt, Germany
rrcphoto said:
IMO the lack of DPAF is the one disappointment I see with this over anything else. it makes this a not-to-great option as a 4k vlogger camera.

If Canon introduces DPAF for razor sharp in-focus 4K video with the M5 Mk II they should implement an automatic warning that pops up on the screen:

"Make sure you have shaved nostrils before you start 4K vlogging!"

8)
 

Talys

Canon R5
CR Pro
Feb 16, 2017
2,110
414
Vancouver, BC
fussy III said:
There have been exactly two reasons for which I would have bought this camera:
1) silent shooting for wildlife
2) Dual Pixel AF in 4K

1) If you buy a $740 camera for shooting wildlife, you're probably going to be disappointed.

2) Because there are many other $740 cameras that have DPAF and 4k, right?


From the types of questions I hear at camera shops, I think that the vast majority of people buying an entry level 4k camera are interested in three things: does it record 4k, is it easy to use, and how much does it cost?

At the entry level price point, most people are not a whole lot more sophisticated than that, and the rest of it boils down to what the salesperson makes a nice commission on and what's in stock at the store.

Within the first year, we'll probably see the camera discounted up to $100-$140 -- or bundled with extra stuff like EF adapter. I'm pretty sure that the M50 will move off the shelves pretty well.
 

9VIII

EOS 5D Mark IV
Feb 8, 2013
1,843
0
espressino said:
The other thing doesn't concern the camera itself but what I'd call conditional or asterisked marketing (which appears to be more pronounced on the Canon Europe website): 10 fps! (oh, but only with locked focus. Under normal conditions it's 7.4 fps. Which is still impressive, so why not advertise that?) Silent shutter! (Oh, but only in a special scene mode; it is one of the scene modes just like for night photography or HDR). Enlarged AF area! (Nevermind, to all intents and purposes it's still 80%x80% if you want to use DPAF). I have a hunch that they do this so the 'better' specs can be displayed on camera ranking websites, and then it's up to the consumer to find out which is a 'true' spec and which one is inflated...

Canon is not the one to complain about, every Mirrorless body has always been marketed this way, and it’s one of the reasons the entire mirrorless industry (along with fake focal length/aperture ratings, especially on M4/3) has always smelled like snake oil.
(If Olympus were marketing a lens like Canon’s 55-250STM, they would call it “88-400mm f5.6”, except that’s the Canon crop ratio, “Olympus” would actually call it a 110-500mm f5.6 lens)

M4/3 cameras are the most ridiculous thing in this entire industry.
 

BillB

EOS R
May 11, 2017
1,393
659
Talys said:
fussy III said:
There have been exactly two reasons for which I would have bought this camera:
1) silent shooting for wildlife
2) Dual Pixel AF in 4K

1) If you buy a $740 camera for shooting wildlife, you're probably going to be disappointed.

2) Because there are many other $740 cameras that have DPAF and 4k, right?


From the types of questions I hear at camera shops, I think that the vast majority of people buying an entry level 4k camera are interested in three things: does it record 4k, is it easy to use, and how much does it cost?

At the entry level price point, most people are not a whole lot more sophisticated than that, and the rest of it boils down to what the salesperson makes a nice commission on and what's in stock at the store.

Within the first year, we'll probably see the camera discounted up to $100-$140 -- or bundled with extra stuff like EF adapter. I'm pretty sure that the M50 will move off the shelves pretty well.

There seem to be a couple of ways to look at the M50 value proposition. The simplest way, which Canon seems to be emphasizing, is that it is better than a smart phone and easy to use. Good video and interchangeable lenses are part of this proposition, at least to some degree. Another value proposition is that the M50 is one of several ways to fill the hole between a smartphone and a high end DSLR, something to bring along when you don't want lug your DSLR around. This puts the M50 more squarely in competition with the M5 and the M6, with cost/performance trade offs.
 

ritholtz

EOS RP
Mar 25, 2014
588
14
jayphotoworks said:
We laugh at Sony for releasing a high powered spec list to then pad it with caveats. Looks like Canon is going that route as well. 4K*! 1.6 Crop**! 5 Axis IS*** Silent Shutter****!

* No DPAF in 4K
** "Inception Crop": 1.6 4K crop on top of a 1.6 APS-C Crop
*** Gyro Lens+Digital IS. Sensor fixed
**** Only in Full Auto Scene Modes
We are also not sure if sensor design is like new aps-c sensors or 6d2. It seems to do everything like M5 with less physical buttons, cheaper price, faster dpaf, no FPS penalty and smaller.
 

ritholtz

EOS RP
Mar 25, 2014
588
14
Talys said:
fussy III said:
There have been exactly two reasons for which I would have bought this camera:
1) silent shooting for wildlife
2) Dual Pixel AF in 4K

1) If you buy a $740 camera for shooting wildlife, you're probably going to be disappointed.

2) Because there are many other $740 cameras that have DPAF and 4k, right?


From the types of questions I hear at camera shops, I think that the vast majority of people buying an entry level 4k camera are interested in three things: does it record 4k, is it easy to use, and how much does it cost?

At the entry level price point, most people are not a whole lot more sophisticated than that, and the rest of it boils down to what the salesperson makes a nice commission on and what's in stock at the store.

Within the first year, we'll probably see the camera discounted up to $100-$140 -- or bundled with extra stuff like EF adapter. I'm pretty sure that the M50 will move off the shelves pretty well.
If some one wants to buy Canon M camera for wild life, isn't M50 better choice than M5. It has latest version of DPAF and improved focusing system. I think it can also shoot with faster FPS.