Canon Announces the EOS M50 Mirrorless Camera

rrcphoto

EOS R6
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
Yasko said:
What about the sensor? It's the same as on their new "higher" entry level cameras, isn't it?
So is it better than the previous that is in the 80D/M5 or is it some strange version with some disadvantages to keep the distance? :eek:

well, there's some special sauce added. it's not a generational leap but there are improvements.

a) wider AF area of coverage for some EF and EF-M lenses
b) 1EV better low light AF (-2-18 versus -1-18)

so something in the sensor has been improved. whether or not that will translate to an IQ improvement? who knows.
 

MayaTlab

EOS 90D
Oct 6, 2015
193
82
rrcphoto said:
Yasko said:
What about the sensor? It's the same as on their new "higher" entry level cameras, isn't it?
So is it better than the previous that is in the 80D/M5 or is it some strange version with some disadvantages to keep the distance? :eek:

well, there's some special sauce added. it's not a generational leap but there are improvements.

a) wider AF area of coverage for some EF and EF-M lenses
b) 1EV better low light AF (-2-18 versus -1-18)

so something in the sensor has been improved. whether or not that will translate to an IQ improvement? who knows.

Both of these may not be related to the sensor, but to how the information is processed. Fujifilm, for example, managed to improve the X-H1's PDAF in low light by 0,5EV with the same sensor and processor, just by upgrading the software.
 

rrcphoto

EOS R6
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
Sharlin said:
rrcphoto said:
while it certainly is a disappointment as far as what was offered, we all need to take a deep breath and step back from the ledge.

I'd say it's only a disappointment to those with the most optimistic interpretations of the leaked specs. Even as is, it's really progressive tech-wise for an entry-level Canon camera and great value for money.

there's certainly alot of good things in there, when the specs first came out last night I was pretty disappointed. today I'm taking another look and deciding it's an interesting first shot at quite a few little changes that will improve stills and video.

if this is the "new entry" level camera on the M line, i think good things are going to happen for the rest of the lineup.

Let's face it .. an entry level camera shooting off at 7 / 10 fps, decent 1080, suspect 4K but still 4K, evf, silent shutter (IR is saying it's silent), C-RAW, 1EV for AF, more AF zones for auto-af modes, eye detect,etc. that's a pretty good entry level camera.

the big hurdle for canon is what do they do with the M6 and M5? do they get far better at 4K video or are they going to say .. this is "good enough".

if they say this is good enough, then I think people have a good right to really bitch about it :)

but frankly. I can count the times on one finger to how many times i used video on my M5. I'd rather the stills improvements any day of the week.
 

Talys

Canon R5
CR Pro
Feb 16, 2017
2,109
407
Vancouver, BC
tabinnorway said:
Yet another pointless camera from Canon for those of us who want a decent hybrid solution. Canon is still years and years behind the competition, and moving slower than a glacier.

- The crop factor is absurd
- Only contrast detect AF in 4K

Sadly the masses will eat this up.

You know, that is contradictory, right?

If the masses will eat it up, by definition, it isn't pointless to either Canon or the masses :)
 

Talys

Canon R5
CR Pro
Feb 16, 2017
2,109
407
Vancouver, BC
rrcphoto said:
but frankly. I can count the times on one finger to how many times i used video on my M5. I'd rather the stills improvements any day of the week.

That describes me exactly. I'd give up 4k for one programmable button or dial.
 

dak723

EOS R
Oct 26, 2013
1,141
435
Don Haines said:
neuroanatomist said:
As expected. The 'Canon must offer 4K' (or they're *******) mantra has become 'Canon must offer high IQ 4K' (or they're *******).

Complainers gonna complain.

I feel sorry for all those people who do not read CR.... They will not know about all the limitations of this camera, buy one, and have to suffer through years of taking great pictures.... OH THE HUMANITY!!!!!!!

Yes, how sad. I wonder how many of the compainers are trolls or paid by Sony or Nikon. Maybe none - which would be even sadder because that would mean they are just idiots. Yes, give me an entry level camera with 4K and DPAF - even if technologically not possible (and certainly not at that price point). So I guess to make it possible, Canon should just give them dual processors for the same price. And other top level features for the same price.

It's an introductory level camera to try and move folks from Smartphones to ILCs. Apparently great for vloggers (who don't need 4K, and probably don't need DPAF either (but who cares about reality). Instead of realizing that they are foolish for having way to high expectations for an entry level camera, they blame Canon for putting out a product - that quite frankly - does almost all they were wishing for yesterday.
 

snappy604

EOS RP
CR Pro
Jan 25, 2017
588
480
seems like a decent entry level camera from those getting into SLR from their phones... I think the market for it is clear. Its frustrating to see an almost stellar camera held back because of marketing forces (price/target). However neat to see this and the new flash have some new technology.. gives me some hope for the next few releases.

Also lately changing my mindset on their gear. Canon tends to be conservative in their specs. Thought my 80d was so-so camera when I originally got it, but found I could push it much harder than my 7d and get good results through processing. Always want better, but pretty satisfied with it given the price/market it was aimed at.
 

crazyrunner33

EOS RP
Nov 4, 2011
306
125
dak723 said:
Don Haines said:
neuroanatomist said:
As expected. The 'Canon must offer 4K' (or they're *******) mantra has become 'Canon must offer high IQ 4K' (or they're *******).

Complainers gonna complain.

I feel sorry for all those people who do not read CR.... They will not know about all the limitations of this camera, buy one, and have to suffer through years of taking great pictures.... OH THE HUMANITY!!!!!!!

Yes, how sad. I wonder how many of the compainers are trolls or paid by Sony or Nikon. Maybe none - which would be even sadder because that would mean they are just idiots. Yes, give me an entry level camera with 4K and DPAF - even if technologically not possible (and certainly not at that price point). So I guess to make it possible, Canon should just give them dual processors for the same price. And other top level features for the same price.

It's an introductory level camera to try and move folks from Smartphones to ILCs. Apparently great for vloggers (who don't need 4K, and probably don't need DPAF either (but who cares about reality). Instead of realizing that they are foolish for having way to high expectations for an entry level camera, they blame Canon for putting out a product - that quite frankly - does almost all they were wishing for yesterday.

The technology for 4K and DPAF technology is not available at an affordable price point? Cell phones have had it for around a year now. I understand shutting out trolls, but it's quite odd to hearing someone going on a monologue against people for calling a subpar video product when it's exactly that. Followed by making large assumptions about video content creators.

The lack of DPAF in 4K is not the reason this is a lame video product, it's the massive crop in 4K on a lens system not designed for such a crop. And no, it's not unreasonable to expect reliable 4K in an 800 dollar camera, the GX85 shoots a reliable no crop 4K with IBIS on a lens system designed for it at a much cheaper cost. It's terribly inaccurate to say the technology isn't possible for a decent 4K on a cheap camera.

The camera is what it is, it's a great and handy photography camera. But anyone with video in mind should be looking elsewhere. Myself included, I was set to buy this camera until I heard about the nasty crop that'll make my fisheye lens look almost like a portrait lens.
 

rrcphoto

EOS R6
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
crazyrunner33 said:
The technology for 4K and DPAF technology is not available at an affordable price point? Cell phones have had it for around a year now.

I've yet to see a 24MP APS-C camera in a smartphone either.

even without the APS-C, most cellphones are far less than 24MP. with DPAF, the heavy lifting is phase difference calculations on all those pixels.
 

mistaspeedy

EOS RP
Apr 5, 2015
236
6
Just to be clear, any proper comparison needs to be done with other APSC sized sensors and cameras.
Smartphones have much smaller sensors and much smaller total resolution, so it is easier to read the whole sensor.
Realistically speaking, you have the world's highest tech processors being produced by Apple, Samsung and their various industry partners... this level of investment is not possible by Camera companies.
They will be somewhat behind the curve for the foreseeable future.

I assume we will have a whole lineup of 4K mirrorless cameras by the end of the year, with models coming in above the M50, offering more features.

Dont be surprised if they keep the 'camera and features you really wanted' for the $2000 price bracket... for cameras like the 7D mark III or the mirrorless equivalent they have yet to announce.

Fuji have no problem charging $1900 for their new 4K camera, which requires a $330 grip if you want more than 15 minutes of 4K footage. What makes you think we are going to get this for $779?

Few mention what Canon has done right...
Fuji - 15 minutes of 4K or buy $330 grip (costs $1900)
Sony - 30 minutes of 4K if you are lucky and your camera doesnt overheat (costs $1300).
Canon - 30 minutes of 4K, works without problems (we'll see)... costs $779

Looks quite good in that context for many users that don't need pro-level IQ 4K.
 

Act444

EOS R
May 4, 2011
1,134
209
As an M6 owner, i’m looking at this camera and wondering what the differences are. It appears these two cameras are more or less meant to co-exist - the M6 being more “enthusiast” with its numerous dials and custom modes (albeit no viewfinder) and small size, and the M50 being essentially an M100 in an M5 body and also w/4K video. The improvements seem nice but it also looks very simplistic. Maybe the video functions are worth a look - mic input? Time sync (w/external audio - something the M6 lacks)? If it can be a legit video recording companion to an external audio recording setup = might be something to look into.
 

Valvebounce

EOS R5
CR Pro
Apr 3, 2013
4,556
444
54
Isle of Wight
Hi exquisite.
I think you will find that of these two only the 1DXII has two Digic processors, the 5DIV lists only Digic 6+ the 1DXII lists Dual Digic 6+.

Cheers, Graham.

exquisitor said:
1DXII and 5DIV both have dual DIGIC processors and they both have DPAF at 4K.
 

BillB

EOS R
May 11, 2017
1,393
659
Valvebounce said:
Hi exquisite.
I think you will find that of these two only the 1DXII has two Digic processors, the 5DIV lists only Digic 6+ the 1DXII lists Dual Digic 6+.

Cheers, Graham.

exquisitor said:
1DXII and 5DIV both have dual DIGIC processors and they both have DPAF at 4K.

In addition to a Digic 6+, the 5DIV also has a Digic 6, which handles the AF and the Metering, IIRC.
 

mistaspeedy

EOS RP
Apr 5, 2015
236
6
Actually... to be quite precise:

5D mark IV (two processors total)
Digic 6 for metering and tracking
Digic 6+ for image processing

1DX mark II (three processors total)
Digic 6 for metering and tracking
Dual Digic 6+ for image processing

1DX (two processors total)
Dual Digic 5+ (no DPAF and no 4K)

So, I guess it takes this single Digic 6 processor just for autofocus tracking and metering... for 4K DPAF... with no processing power left over for actual data processing.

I guess the Digic 6+ is doing the encoding work for video, etc.

BillB beat me to it... hehe
 

Valvebounce

EOS R5
CR Pro
Apr 3, 2013
4,556
444
54
Isle of Wight
Hi BillB, mistaspeedy.
Thank you for the education, where do you guys find this info, I checked the Canon spec pages before posting! I guess the post from exquisitor should really have said 1DXII has three Digic processors, 5DIV has dual DIGIC processors! :)

Cheers, Graham.

BillB said:
Valvebounce said:
Hi exquisite.
I think you will find that of these two only the 1DXII has two Digic processors, the 5DIV lists only Digic 6+ the 1DXII lists Dual Digic 6+.

Cheers, Graham.

exquisitor said:
1DXII and 5DIV both have dual DIGIC processors and they both have DPAF at 4K.

In addition to a Digic 6+, the 5DIV also has a Digic 6, which handles the AF and the Metering, IIRC.
 

Talys

Canon R5
CR Pro
Feb 16, 2017
2,109
407
Vancouver, BC
Act444 said:
As an M6 owner, i’m looking at this camera and wondering what the differences are. It appears these two cameras are more or less meant to co-exist - the M6 being more “enthusiast” with its numerous dials and custom modes (albeit no viewfinder) and small size, and the M50 being essentially an M100 in an M5 body and also w/4K video. The improvements seem nice but it also looks very simplistic. Maybe the video functions are worth a look - mic input? Time sync (w/external audio - something the M6 lacks)? If it can be a legit video recording companion to an external audio recording setup = might be something to look into.

Considering the M6 line versus M50 line, it looks to like me like M5/M6 are stratified to be more "enthusiast", currently, by giving them more physical controls -- with M6 a smaller footprint camera in exchange for no built-in VF.

One could surmise that if the M50 is successful, Canon could build an M60 that has similar ergonomics to the M6, and is $100-$150 or so less.

Moving forward, I would expect M5 Mk2 and M6 Mk2 to have the tech that is in the M50, like silent shutter, pupil AF, 4k video -- and perhaps maybe even some better versions of each. I would also expect that Mx cameras be further differentiated, because frankly, a lot of people don't really care about those extra dials, so Canon will want other reasons to upsell them by a couple hundred bucks.

At the moment, there is a HUGE benefit for stills for M50, in my opinion: a fully articulating screen versus a tilt-only screen. For me, I would take the fully articulating screen any day of the week (hell, I'd take it over 4k video). And, of course, more FPS and pupil AF are better than not, but just give it a year or so and it should be in M5/M6.

Since naming conventions are a fetish of this site... Canon should have named the current models M50 and M60 to be consistent with xxD, and the new camera M500, to be consistent with Rebel xxxD numbering. Then, full frame cameras could have been M5, a superpro M1, and a pro MILC APSC called the M7. Wouldn't that have been logical? But noooooo... 8)


snappy604 said:
Thought my 80d was so-so camera when I originally got it, but found I could push it much harder than my 7d and get good results through processing. Always want better, but pretty satisfied with it given the price/market it was aimed at.

When I bought my 80D, I hardly looked at reviews and forums; it was an auto-buy because I really loved the 70D. At first, I thought... huh.. not that big of a deal -- but it was fine, because I wanted another xxD body anyways, because I needed to catch to have 2 tripod positions. But after using it for a week (again, never having read a review), I absolutely fell in love with it.

If I had listened to the reviews, I wouldn't have bought a 6DII, and I absolutely love that camera too. Like you said, though, I'm always looking forward to better :)
 

BillB

EOS R
May 11, 2017
1,393
659
Valvebounce said:
Hi BillB, mistaspeedy.
Thank you for the education, where do you guys find this info, I checked the Canon spec pages before posting! I guess the post from exquisitor should really have said 1DXII has three Digic processors, 5DIV has dual DIGIC processors! :)

Cheers, Graham.

BillB said:
Valvebounce said:
Hi exquisite.
I think you will find that of these two only the 1DXII has two Digic processors, the 5DIV lists only Digic 6+ the 1DXII lists Dual Digic 6+.

Cheers, Graham.

exquisitor said:
1DXII and 5DIV both have dual DIGIC processors and they both have DPAF at 4K.

In addition to a Digic 6+, the 5DIV also has a Digic 6, which handles the AF and the Metering, IIRC.

Wikipedia.
 

scyrene

EOS R6
Dec 4, 2013
2,897
1,046
UK
www.flickr.com
neuroanatomist said:
As expected. The 'Canon must offer 4K' (or they're *******) mantra has become 'Canon must offer high IQ 4K' (or they're *******).

Complainers gonna complain.

I must be the only person in the world who *likes* the idea of a crop - as I'd use 4K for wildlife work with longer lenses. For those needing wide, the 11-22 EF-M lens is cheap. For people doing ultrawide 4K work, this is clearly not for them (but surely they are a minority too?).

~~~

My overall reaction to this camera was, it's really well priced, even here in the UK! As for its limitations, some people had assumed from leaked specs it would be above the M5, but now we know the compromises - I still think it sounds a lot of camera for the money.
 

scyrene

EOS R6
Dec 4, 2013
2,897
1,046
UK
www.flickr.com
fussy III said:
Talys said:
ritholtz said:
If some one wants to buy Canon M camera for wild life, isn't M50 better choice than M5. It has latest version of DPAF and improved focusing system. I think it can also shoot with faster FPS.

I understand why someone may want to buy a Canon M, and I understand why someone who has one would use it to photograph wildlife. But I can't imagine why someone would specifically choose a Canon M for wildlife photography.

If you do not comprehend the need to combine truly silent shutter with workable AF in wildlife photography, you are simply not experienced in wildlife-photography. So why do you comment?

I had stated I had invested into the Ef-System already. But no matter how fast or rugged of a Canon-Camera I employ, all of them make some kind of shutter noise. Silent mode just has not been truly silent with Canon so far because electronic shutter was missing from the system until now. Ruggedness and fps I can sacrifize in many situations, especially sitting in a hide photographing shy and alert mammals. So the M50 would have been "ok" for my needs if it had not been for the stupid and exclusive implementation of electronic shutter into SCN-mode.

None of this means to say that I applaud Canon for not offering a fast and rugged mirrorless pro-level camera with electronic shutter for bigger money.

Crippling silence into the SCN-mode must seem like a stupid move by Canon to any experienced photographer or intelligent being. No soup for anyone! I simply do not understand why Canon seems to be embracing incompetent fools only and to noone's benefit. IMO people who do not understand manual exposure should not be messing with electronic shutter.

Out of interest, do the mammals not also respond to the sound of the focus motor in the lens? I tried to photograph my sister's cat, and it ran away the moment I half-pressed the shutter button. (I shoot plenty of wildlife, but I've never known an animal flee at the shutter sound, but it's mostly not mammals and perhaps it varies with the area of the world you're in). Still, this camera is probably not aimed at wildlife shooters, so it's a bit beside the point. It's for beginners, or early enthusiasts focused on video/small size, surely?
 

scyrene

EOS R6
Dec 4, 2013
2,897
1,046
UK
www.flickr.com
tabinnorway said:
Yet another pointless camera from Canon for those of us who want a decent hybrid solution. Canon is still years and years behind the competition, and moving slower than a glacier.

- The crop factor is absurd
- Only contrast detect AF in 4K

Sadly the masses will eat this up.

You created an account just to bitch and betray your snobbery, how boring.

dak723 said:
Yes, how sad. I wonder how many of the compainers are trolls or paid by Sony or Nikon. Maybe none - which would be even sadder because that would mean they are just idiots.

There was a study on it, as empirical as possible in this I suppose, a year or two ago, which found that strong negative reviews/posts online are overwhelmingly not paid-for, but people who are emotionally invested in other brands, and take it upon themselves to defend them/trash the competition. A curious aspect of psychology...