Canon EOS R body with more than 75mp on the horizon [CR2]

jmoya

EOS M6 Mark II
Feb 8, 2016
57
5
please not that many mp. No need. I'm not upgrading to a new pc just to process those massive files. I just got all new macs. Just make a similar 5d r with 5dV layout on the buttons and no 4k crop WITH Dual card slots. I think it would satisfy nearly everyone.
 

Kit Lens Jockey

EOS R
CR Pro
Nov 12, 2016
878
597
I really hope that this is going to be an off-shoot of Canon's main camera lines in the way that the 5DS was. I can go either way as to whether or not I'd want 75mp of resolution. But ultimately, a camera with this high resolution is going to have pretty poor high ISO performance.

My fear is that they will fix some of the control issues of the EOS R and put it into a camera with 75mp. If that's an offshoot of a camera with a more reasonable resolution, fine. But if that's the only model available with more professional controls and features than the EOS R, I'm not going to be happy, because it will undoubtedly sacrifice high ISO performance compared to the EOS R.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jack Douglas

jolyonralph

EOS R5 Mark II
CR Pro
Aug 25, 2015
1,384
786
London, UK
www.everyothershot.com
Obviously a 75mpx monster isn't going to replace lower-resolution models aimed at fast-action. Canon are likely to bring a number of R bodies out within the near future - just see how many different EF mount bodies they have in the lineup right now - there's no reason they can't have a similar number of M and R bodies for mirrorless.
 

HarryFilm

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2016
658
148
Obviously a 75mpx monster isn't going to replace lower-resolution models aimed at fast-action. Canon are likely to bring a number of R bodies out within the near future - just see how many different EF mount bodies they have in the lineup right now - there's no reason they can't have a similar number of M and R bodies for mirrorless.
---

Canon NO LONGER HAS ANY CHOICE in the matter!

These are specs from PetaPixel and SonyRumors websites about Sony introducing
a NEW 60 megapixel sensor so if Canon wants to stay in business, they had better
match and even EXCEED the specs noted below:

  • 60 megapixels
  • 16 channels (this is probably used to increase data rate transfer from sensor to system memory to reduce rolling shutter!)
  • 4.6FPS @ 16-bit (Can you say OMG-level beautiful landscapes, astro-phototgraphy and low-light imagery?)
  • 12FPS @ 14-bit ( Good for time lapses!)
  • 8K30P @ 12-bit (Not a bad spec -- I'll take it for high end security video!)
  • 8K60p @ 10-bit (THIS spec is what I was EXPECTING BIG-TIME for new smooth motion 8K video cameras!!!)
  • 4K60p @ 12-bit (Video and still Images will LOOK UTTERLY STUNNING at oversampled DCI 4k at 4:4:4 RAW 12 bit colour!)
  • FHD300P @ 10-bit (with a bit of software tweaking this can be increased to 8-bit 4:2:0/4:2:2 at 600 frames per second at HD 1080p!)
which speak of a NEW PARADIGM in high-pixel count image sensors which can be deployed to MULTIPLE platforms.

---

...AND...

Sony, being the world's largest producer of Smartphone Image Sensors, has in it's waiting wings, some NEW VERSIONS of current 1/2 inch, 2/3rd inch and even APS-C sensors which are being readied for deployment on SMARTPHONES !!!!! Yes! You HEARD IT HERE FIRST !!!! Not for Mirrorless or DSLR cameras....but rather SMARTPHONE deployments!

After that long ago image leak of a POSSIBLE series of Canon prototype smartphones with a very large sensor (looked like APS-C and 1 Inch sensors), it looks like SONY may hit the market FIRST with a 2/3rds Inch Sensor on a 4K screen Sony xPeria flagship smartphone! And at 50 Megapixels, that smartphone would be technically a Medium Format imaging system in a consumer-level form factor....AND once that happens, you JUST KNOW that Canon, Fuji, Nikon, Olympus won't be far behind with 50+ Megapixel mirrorless cameras AND smartphone-systems!

In fact, .....I AM GOING TO CALL THIS NEAR-FUTURE AS ALMOST A DONE DEAL .... I see BOTH Canon AND Fuji building High-End, Image Connoisseur-specific SMARTPHONES that will have DCI 4k (4096 by 2160 pixels) OLED displays with 50 Megapixel still images AND 8k video (8192 by 4320 pixel) once Sony introduces that new 50 megapixel 2/3rds inch sensor xPeria super-smartphone! On a technical level because of battery issues, I do see 8K video on these smartphones being only 30 fps recording and the full-sensor downsampled 4K video at 60 fps with 120 fps 1080p HD resolutions!

For stills, I am 99.99% SURE it will be 50 Megapixel STILL PHOTOS rather than 75 megapixels or 36 megapixels on these NEW large image sensor smartphones! With modern computational photography algorithms SIMILAR what the Google Pixel-3 is doing which it's Stacked Images software, I EXPECT that image quality will start EATING AWAY at cameras like the Sony A6500 and Canon Rebel and M5/M6 Series and Nikon D500 series cameras!
 

JoTomOz

EOS M6 Mark II
Nov 21, 2018
89
66
www.flickr.com
Thats because talking about resolution in terms like that is an entirely specious argument.

Reposted yet again:-

System resolution can be broadly shorthanded down to this equation, it isn't perfect but pretty close.

tsr = 1/sqrt((1/lsr) ² + (1/ssr) ² )

Where tsr is total spatial resolution, lsr is lens spatial resolution, and ssr is sensor spatial resolution.

So if, for example, we have a sensor that can resolve 100 lppmm, and a lens that can resolve 100 lppmm we get this

1/sqrt((1/100) ² + (1/100) ² ) = tsr of 71 lppmm

Leave the same lens on, good or bad, and double the sensor resolution to 200 lppmm

1/sqrt((1/100) ² + (1/200) ² ) = tsr of 89 lppmm


You will notice that the system resolution, even in this simplified form, can never resolve 100% of the lowest performing portion of that system, so if a 24MP sensor is returning 80% of the potential of a lens then a 50MP sensor might return 90%, how useful that is in real life is a moot point, but it does illustrate that even the most modest lens will show increased resolution when put in front of a higher resolving sensor.
Perhaps “fully realise” was not the best way to put it. As someone who just went from 21 to 30 megapixels without upgrading my non-L lenses, I understand what you are saying about any lens benefiting from a high res sensor. But resolution wise would you be happy using this alleged new 75mpx camera with my non-L lenses? I’m guessing probably not. To make the most of this kind of resolution, you need lenses that can accomodate it.
 

privatebydesign

EOS-1D X Mark III
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
9,367
3,715
120
Perhaps “fully realise” was not the best way to put it. As someone who just went from 21 to 30 megapixels without upgrading my non-L lenses, I understand what you are saying about any lens benefiting from a high res sensor. But resolution wise would you be happy using this alleged new 75mpx camera with my non-L lenses? I’m guessing probably not. To make the most of this kind of resolution, you need lenses that can accomodate it.
I’ll happily use the lenses I have, and they are all EF lenses. I print big and 20mp doesn’t really cut it, 75 would even with comparatively modest lenses, besides the lenses that have ‘feeling’ or a ‘look’ like the 85 f1.2, 50 f1.2 etc are not renowned for their resolution, which I think is, in general, overacted as a metric.

On the occasions I need the resolution I’ll use lenses that can provide it, but I don’t think I own a single lens that I wouldn’t print to 20”x30”, nearly four times the pixels would allow me to go to 24”x36”, the maximum size I go to for prints from a single 135 format capture. Things like digitizing slides etc my FDn 50mm macro and slide duplicator will provide all the resolution I think archiving needs for my modest back catalog.

But yes, one of the design parameters for the R system was the ability to make better quality lenses, and I’m sure Canon will, I’m just not sure I personally will buy into the marketing as I really don’t see the ability to realise the capabilities in actual output. Most of the time people can’t tell the difference between a phone and a EOS/R camera because of the modest outputs used.

I suppose I’ve just grown out of the need for every new thing and look for the practical value and application of that new technology. I’m not a Luddite, I love WiFi, I love gps, I’d like enough resolution for critical examination of a 24”x36” print.
 

warc1

CR Pro
Apr 13, 2018
5
3
Better have a fast computer processor for those kind of images, plus lots of memory. And can PS keep up? :)
I've never understood this concern with high MP cameras. I bought a 5DMKII in 2008 whose 21mp resolution was the highest available in a full frame camera. From the time that camera was new, I had no issues managing and editing images on my PC of the day.

Compared to that 5DMKII, we're now talking about a camera with approximately 3.5 times the resolution and file size. However, in the past ten years, hard drive storage costs have dropped by a factor of 10 and computing power has increased by a factor of 5. The rate of increase in sensor resolution has always significantly lagged the rate of increase in computing power. With each generational increase of sensor resolution there has been a much greater increase in generational computing power.

If PC tech wasn't a constraint when you first got into digital photography, it can't be now. That's unless you believe that only cameras need to be upgraded and never your PC.
 
Last edited:

GoldWing

Canon EOS 1DXMKII
Oct 19, 2013
208
165
Los Angeles, CA
en.wikipedia.org
Now that we're into MF territory here, I hope that Canon realizes that many of us who shoot fashion will be comparing the camera to Hasselblad just because of MB size alone. For me I would prefer a 1DXMKII that shoots 30 "quality" MB's with enhanced DR and focusing and still maintains it's 14fps capabilities. :) :)
 

applecider

EOS RP
May 20, 2012
488
43
Portland Oregon, Cape Cod
I agree. I hope that, if Canon's marketing thinks they need to restart the Megapixel race to regain a bold high-tech reputation, they will also release a prosumer R model with a moderate MP count for photographers. Such small pixels on a 35mm sensor don't really make sense, because diffraction blur will limit the range of useful f-stop numbers to well below f/5.6, when closing the aperture further its extremely high resolution will get gradually lost (I know a bit about the inescapable wave nature of light, I am a physicist). So the images get more and more soft on the pixel level with smaller apertures. One can re-sharpen such soft images digitally, of course, but the trade-off is growing artefacts. Once a visual information is lost, it is lost. Btw this is now new finding, you can read about this fact of physics in classic photography textbooks.

I know somebody who still uses old 12 MP Nikons and produces gorgeous A3 (!!) prints in which on can see every little hair and skin pore. You could sell her prints to people as a result of a 40+ MP camera and they would believe it.

Yes you are right about diffraction limit f stops coming down, an upside of the R system though seems to be the ability to make larger aperture lenses. So maybe you lose two stops of smaller apertures but gain one stop of larger aperature’s. Granted fewer MP would boost the diffraction limit and that is the trade off. The 5D4 is already at 8.6 aperature to begin losing quality to diffraction.
 
  • Like
Reactions: justaCanonuser

Grimbald

EOS M50
Sep 30, 2017
36
27
Can you name an ILC body from the last decade with crippled dynamic range?
How about a camera with a similar DR as your 5 year old predecessor? *Points at 6d mark II*

I'd rather have 50 or 55 MP, but better image quality at high ISO and DR. But maybe that's were they're heading with the EOS R/5d instead -> Since the 5DSR equivalent gets a huge increase in MP, the 5d line processor might follow torwards ~40MP.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4fun

Jethro

EOS R
CR Pro
Jul 14, 2018
468
345
Perhaps “fully realise” was not the best way to put it. As someone who just went from 21 to 30 megapixels without upgrading my non-L lenses, I understand what you are saying about any lens benefiting from a high res sensor. But resolution wise would you be happy using this alleged new 75mpx camera with my non-L lenses? I’m guessing probably not. To make the most of this kind of resolution, you need lenses that can accomodate it.
Yes, and Canon would love to sell you some high quality (very high $) RF mount lenses which I reckon are actively designed for higher (certainly higher than the EOS R) MP sensors.
 

3kramd5

EOS R6
Mar 2, 2012
3,084
405
No but the 6d Mark II.

Or do you think that the 6d Mark II sensor is great in terms of DR?
I asked for an example of an ILC from the last decade with crippled DR. You cited 6DmkII and, in particular, its similar DR to its predecessor, i.e. 6D.

If one is crippled, and if they’re similar, then both are crippled.

I don’t have an opinion about either. I own neither. However I don’t expect either would limit my photography in any significant way, especially not so much so that I’d call the gear crippled.

I’d also draw a huge amount of space between “great” and “crippled.”
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: stevelee

Grimbald

EOS M50
Sep 30, 2017
36
27
I asked for an example of an ILC from the last decade with crippled DR. You cited 6DmkII and, in particular, its similar DR to its predecessor, i.e. 6D.

If one is crippled, and if they’re similar, then both are crippled.

Have you ever heard of the concept of time? The 6d sensor is for todays standard not good anymore, but by the time it was released it was great. If you release a sensor that's about the same in terms of DR range 5 years later than yes, it's a crippled sensor. Obviously every sensor of every camera will at one point in time be outdated, but if you are already outdated by the time you release the sensor, despite being capable of delivering a much better product, it's a shitty/crippled sensor.
 

AlanF

Stay at home
CR Pro
Aug 16, 2012
7,523
7,591
I've never understood this concern with high MP cameras. I bought a 5DMKII in 2008 whose 21mp resolution was the highest available in a full frame camera. From the time that camera was new, I had no issues managing and editing images on my PC of the day.

Compared to that 5DMKII, we're now talking about a camera with approximately 3.5 times the resolution and file size. However, in the past ten years, hard drive storage costs have dropped by a factor of 10 and computing power has increased by a factor of 5. The rate of increase in sensor resolution has always significantly lagged the rate of increase in computing power. With each generational increase of sensor resolution there has been a much greater increase in generational computing power.

If PC tech wasn't a constraint for your old camera, it shouldn't be for your new one. That's unless you believe that only cameras need to be upgraded and never your PC.
Resolution scales with the square root of the number of pixels. A 3.5x increase in mpx going from the 5DMkII increases resolution just under two fold.
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,683
2,073
Alberta, Canada
Not to mention the equation that relates lens resolution to price but we gladly pay for the modest improvements because they are discernible and make a difference to people who know and care. If you have GAS and cash, why not. You may not be a better photographer but you likely won't be worse.:)

Jack
 
  • Like
Reactions: stevelee

AlanF

Stay at home
CR Pro
Aug 16, 2012
7,523
7,591
Yes you are right about diffraction limit f stops coming down, an upside of the R system though seems to be the ability to make larger aperture lenses. So maybe you lose two stops of smaller apertures but gain one stop of larger aperature’s. Granted fewer MP would boost the diffraction limit and that is the trade off. The 5D4 is already at 8.6 aperature to begin losing quality to diffraction.
Diffraction is determined by the size of the entrance pupil of the lens, usually the front element, and is a function of just the f-number and the wavelength of light. How does having a larger mount make it practically possible to have a larger front element? It certainly doesn’t help telephotos and you have f/0.95 50mm lenses already.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stevelee