DPReview: Canon EOS R5 and R6 overheating claims tested: cameras work as promised – but that’s not enough

Going all into the R5 would be very costly for me - with the body, adapter, batteries, CF express cards and a new RF lens, I'd be looking at $8-10K CAD easily. At that cost, I want something that is truly the best out there, with no compromises in performance.

Ahhhh . . . there is the rub.
The "perfect" camera! With "no compromises . . ."
Doesn't exist!
Never has.
Never will.

But there are great choices of really fine cameras. All with their strengths and weaknesses.
Looking forward to my R5. Might even play with 8K a bit . . . eventually . . . might. Not sure what I'd play it on though.

Were I a video guy, I'd look at the 12MP Sony. I have no axe to grind. I use Canon . . . but I don't have any hate on for Sony. But 12MP is not acceptable to me so that new Sony is out!.

It's the folks supposedly "in business" that perplex me the most.

The gear cost is a business expense, largely written off in their taxes. If they really "need" 8K, a second R5 body, reserved on standby JUST to record 8K seems a mighty cheap way to get it. Beats the cost of an Arri, or a Red.

Methinks there is a lot of breast beating going on that is really just the same old fan boi gear wars we've always had.
 
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quilatoo

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Why do you think Sony can do any better for cheaper?
The main reason for the A7SIII being less prone to overheating is exactly that: 12 Megapixels on the sensor, less heat buildup on the sensor and much less data to process internally as well.

But with that megapixel count, it fits perfectly into those slightly compromised product category and no, I would not call it cheap by any means either...


Bump the A7IV to 4k60p with 10-bit codecs, and you will probably end up with a camera overheating in that mode, just like the R6 except it might not even do it in FF mode, but with the 1.5x APS-C crop instead, which is already an annoyance itself.

They always raise prices with every generation, they are really no different to Canon, except their product cycle is shorter and they have four separate FF mirrorless models running in parallel, so their tactics are different and the price increases might not be noticed as much.
The A7RIV isn't a whole lot cheaper and it misses completely on the video front and it uses an older Bionz X processor, it does not have the full touchscreen an new Menu, etc. is basically feels a generation behind Canon, it is an older, cheaper camera, so no surprise there. A newer one will be better but also more expensive, if they design an 8K sensor, it will be even more expensive.

Canon will address the more serious video shooter needs with different models (that RF-EF Speed Booster might give a clue about what they are planning...) Sony probably won't do it the same way, as their product line-up looks different, after the A7SIII the next step up is the FX9 video camera, and they will make a smaller version of that as well to sit in between those two models.

I really don't get all this comparisons when people should be looking at systems, not particular cameras (again, the bigger picture instead of the smaller picture).
The problem isn't that it overheats, and as you say any new camera right now would, but how it cools down. There's no reason to think Sony wouldn't consider putting in a better cooling solution in their next big camera (whether that's a fan or whatever) after seeing the flack Canon have received for their pretty significantly compromised higher end video features.

Sony of course raise their prices between generations, just not nearly as much as Canon does. The point is, with Sony updating their mainline cameras at about twice the rate Canon does, that system feels like less of a risk because you're not "stuck" with the current model for as long a period and the like-for-like cost is a fair bit cheaper. Maybe the time Canon takes until the R5 II is a similar time frame to Sony (and I'll choose to be optimistic and see the time between the EOS R and R5 as being an indicator of that) but it could well be another four years until we see what Canon will ultimately do to improve their hardware.

There are plenty of Canon shooters in the last few years who have made a switch to another system, primarily Sony, in part because of those reasons and because it felt like Canon were starting to lag behind with the shift into mirrorless.

There have also been plenty of Canon shooters like me who have stuck around because the RF system is that significant long term step up we had hoped for, it's just mainly for photographers. I do think it's fair to say though that those people who really do need a hybrid camera most of the time, whose limitations really don't get in the way, and are looking for a more future proofed set of features, might be tempted away in 2021 if Sony manages to address those concerns.
 
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Sounds like you are happy with the R5 as it is. Does that mean if Canon issues a recall with a fix for the overheating issues that you will decline the fix? After all, it sounds like there is nothing that needs fixing in your opinion?
Of course not, an improvement is always better. What kind of illogical thinking is this?
But saying that canon did not delivered as promised is simply wrong.

And I can not emphasise this enough: ALL THESE FEATURES WORK EXACTLY AS CANON DESCRIBED BEFOREHAND. The exact overheat limits where stated in detail before the release by canon.
Its not like sony, who build the A7 line and simply not mentioned the overheating problems at all until buyers found out.


It drops image quality when it overheats in stills mode... per Canon.
ALL Cameras of ALL manufacturers are getting more noise at higher temperatures. Thats simple physics. And of course canon would state that in their manual, they always have. Thats nothing new and not a special "problem" of the R5. Its basicaly not visible at all - unless you do some astro photography with ultra long shutter time.

I get it, you choose to hate the camera - thats its fine.
 
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Sony of course raise their prices between generations, just not nearly as much as Canon does. The point is, with Sony updating their mainline cameras at about twice the rate Canon does, that system feels like less of a risk because you're not "stuck" with the current model for as long a period and the like-for-like cost is a fair bit cheaper. Maybe the time Canon takes until the R5 II is a similar time frame to Sony (and I'll choose to be optimistic and see the time between the EOS R and R5 as being an indicator of that) but it could well be another four years until we see what Canon will ultimately do to improve their hardware.

There are plenty of Canon shooters in the last few years who have made a switch to another system, primarily Sony, in part because of those reasons and because it felt like Canon were starting to lag behind with the shift into mirrorless.

There have also been plenty of Canon shooters like me who have stuck around because the RF system is that significant long term step up we had hoped for, it's just mainly for photographers. I do think it's fair to say though that those people who really do need a hybrid camera most of the time, whose limitations really don't get in the way, and are looking for a more future proofed set of features, might be tempted away in 2021 if Sony manages to address those concerns.

Again they are different companies, as you may have seen, Sony did not put S-Log in the A9 and A9 II cameras, mainly to protect the A7S III, which came a lot later than these cameras, which could have been just as great for video as they are for sports shooting.
The truth is, Sony has way more models than needed, both new and old with those upgrade cycles and yet it seems they somehow still manage to convince some customers that it is a good thing to upgrade constantly, like with smartphones.

They are not chasing high megapixel 8K video for now, there will be the usual improvements to the A7RV but it will not be made into a video beast like the A7S III so it will be less of a hybrid camera, they are segmenting the models just like Canon does only with different tools at hand.

Most people who are this serious about video have a cinema camera at hand and use a camera like this as a B-cam or take advantage of the IBIS for short takes.

As I wrote multiple times, the RF-mount as a system is looking better and better, there will be models more focused on video shooting, all people notice is the problems instead of seeing that Canon is producing an 8K sensor with a fairly fast readout, so they certainly have the capability to do much more, too.

And people whining on forums about overheating (without actually being event shooters, who might not shoot the highest quality anyway) and "threating" to choose A7S III or similar instead (that is being over-hyped on YouTube right now, it is a great camera but might not be what most people need who watch these reviews) will not likely to stop its momentum.
It is still in the phase of building up and considering it is less than two years old, it looks quite good and also heavily backed up by the EF-mount as well, which is still the standard mount for the stills lenses, which are being used for video.
 
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Respinder

5D Mark III
Mar 4, 2012
98
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Ahhhh . . . there is the rub.
The "perfect" camera! With "no compromises . . ."
Doesn't exist!
Never has.
Never will.

But there are great choices of really fine cameras. All with their strengths and weaknesses.
Looking forward to my R5. Might even play with 8K a bit . . . eventually . . . might. Not sure what I'd play it on though.

Were I a video guy, I'd look at the 12MP Sony. I have no axe to grind. I use Canon . . . but I don't have any hate on for Sony. But 12MP is not acceptable to me so that new Sony is out!.

It's the folks supposedly "in business" that perplex me the most.

The gear cost is a business expense, largely written off in their taxes. If they really "need" 8K, a second R5 body, reserved on standby JUST to record 8K seems a mighty cheap way to get it. Beats the cost of an Arri, or a Red.

Methinks there is a lot of breast beating going on that is really just the same old fan boi gear wars we've always had.

Fair point - I guess my "perfect" camera would have been the 1DX Mark III although it is EF-only/DSLR so perhaps imperfect from that definition
The 5D Mark II would also be considered a "perfect" camera IMO - although once you consider variables like price in the mix (is the price too high), then I guess there may never be a "perfect" camera.

But I suppose where I was coming from in stating all of this is that the R5 is an incredibly expensive camera with lots of hidden costs. It's not just the cost of the body ($5,399CAD) but also the cost of a new CFexpress card, new batteries, the EF-RF adapter, and the battery grip (just to get a decent battery life) and I'm coming out to nearly $8K in total cost (I know.. 8K for $8K! Crazy!!). So the point here is that with so much money on the line, I really don't want to put all my money into something unless its delivering the optimal performance that I need. I'll be monitoring things over the next few months to see how things all play out, but in the interim, I really hope that Canon at least pushes out some sort of firmware update.
 
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Sounds like you are happy with the R5 as it is. Does that mean if Canon issues a recall with a fix for the overheating issues that you will decline the fix? After all, it sounds like there is nothing that needs fixing in your opinion?

If someone offers me a way to get 10mpg more out of my car, Im going to take it. Who on earth wouldnt?
 
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Ozarker

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Dweeb One: "Canon sells a camera that doesn't overheat in 8k video mode and can record for as long as your memory holds out!"
Dweeb Two: "But it isn't weather sealed! For nearly $4k I expect full weather sealing, thermo nuclear protection, and FF 8K video with zero time limits and no overheating!"
 
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Yeah, those are unicorn specs. Only the Canon R5 & A7SIII can do honest fullframe 4K50. You can throw the R6 in there, but it does have a slight 1.07 crop, so technically not quite full frame. You don't mention AutoFocus so the 1DXIII would fit except that it doesn't have a flippy screen & it's a super expensive camera. Out of the entire list, except for the overheating, the R6 is your best bet. Here's to hoping a firmware update can make it more usable. Save up the extra Euro's and I'm sure the A7SIII would make you happy.

This illustrates a good point though... many are acting like they are owed these features like they were some long standing prerequisite for any normal videographer. The truth is, we are just now getting some of these amazing specs and features.
completely agree with you. that also makes these decisions very difficult. because point is, up until now, i've always shot my footage in regular FHD. But just because it seems like 4K is going to be the new standard somewhat soon, I feel like I have to save up for it and be ready to use 4K (up to 50fps) all day long just like I normally would on a regular shoot. (except from maybe an occasional documentary where 4K 25fps would be enough but still).

I also feel like I like canon's ergonomics and workways more than sony's. Thats why I wanted the R6 so badly. Hope they release some nice hardware or firmware updates that would make R6 just fine for a nice videography camera. because I simply can't rely on a camera that is going to overheat no matter what I do in the long run.
 
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Yeah, those are unicorn specs. Only the Canon R5 & A7SIII can do honest fullframe 4K50.
Actually no: Panasonic S1H, S1, S1R and even the Leica SL2 (Leica!!!) can to 4K50/60
And you can add m34 (Panasonic) and apsc (Fuji T4) to that mix. Thermally, it is certainly not easier to manage these cams just because the sensor is smaller; actually it is more difficult in even smaller bodies.
 
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BakaBokeh

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Actually no: Panasonic S1H, S1, S1R and even the Leica SL2 (Leica!!!) can to 4K50/60
And you can add m34 (Panasonic) and apsc (Fuji T4) to that mix. Thermally, it is certainly not easier to manage these cams just because the sensor is smaller; actually it is more difficult in even smaller bodies.
I had all those on my original list except the Leica if you cared to look back. If you look at what Th0msky wanted in a camera, it rules all of them out.
 
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RayValdez360

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OK, man, just stay at home and we'll pay you anyway. Just tell us where to send the checks!

Seriously though, I'm not a wedding photog. (The only pro work I did was a little stock in the 90s.) But I shot weddings for friends/family with two bodies, with 24-70 and 70-200, or with 24-105IS and 85/1.2* or 135/2. Or for indoor/outdoor events, an ISO 100 body and ISO 400 body, sharing 17-35, 24-70, 24-105 and 50/1.4 as needed.

TLDR? Two bodies.

* 135/2 had to get too far from subject so had to yell above the crowd, which I hated. 85/1.2 AF way too slow. I really wished for a Nikon-like 85/1.4...
Two bodies for video isnt the same as for photos. Most of the time if I need two cameras for video, I just hire another guy.
 
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SecureGSM

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It can work great as a crash cam for action sequences on a HIGH END production. Mind it.
it's a risky proposition as the camera may reach an overheating state while you were staging the shoot..and being position, say on, the trunk of the crash vehicle... it may be a quite heated place.. so again, y are risking to miss the shoot here.. I am not a videographer, but such a use case is quite probable.
 
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SecureGSM

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Sounds like you are happy with the R5 as it is. Does that mean if Canon issues a recall with a fix for the overheating issues that you will decline the fix? After all, it sounds like there is nothing that needs fixing in your opinion?

Honestly, we all know this camera would not have sold as well and so fast had it not been for the headline features... 8K, oversampled 4K, 4K 120p... but yet soooo much flack from having the gall to expect those features to work as Canon promised. When the fixed version is

It drops image quality when it overheats in stills mode... per Canon.
no, you are reading it wrong:
it may drop the image quality only when the white overheating indicator is on in STILL shooting mode. not the video mode... major difference.
 
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SteveC

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no, you are reading it wrong:
it may drop the image quality only when the white overheating indicator is on in STILL shooting mode. not the video mode... major difference.

That's OK he has his reading, and he'll likely go off and repeat himself elsewhere. Or someone else will.

The same bad points keep being brought up and debunked over and over again. Now there are some legitimate gripes/concerns here, but they're buried under the bullshit that keeps getting recycled. (And there are both good and bullshit answers, too, the good again being buried under the bullshit.)
 
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dtaylor

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Jul 26, 2011
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no, you are reading it wrong:
it may drop the image quality only when the white overheating indicator is on in STILL shooting mode. not the video mode... major difference.

Resolution is fixed. But noise and DR are going to vary with any variation in temperature in the analog stages (so basically the sensor circuitry before the ADCs). That's true of any camera, and it's the reason why dedicated astro cameras are cooled. For a given temperature change the change in IQ may be too small to notice or worry about. But it's going to be there.

It would be interesting to see PTP take a few DSLR and mirrorless bodies, run a high use test (a thousand frames?), and measure the initial and final frames to determine if the changes are human observable and how they compare between OVF and EVF.

To be clear this isn't specifically an R5/R6 issue. Their sensors may be warmer or cooler than the average mirrorless under heavy shooting. There's no way to know without measuring them. But it's pretty clear that it's not the sensors which are retaining heat and creating an issue for video work.
 
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Got my R5 two days ago. Here are two interesting findings about the overheating:

1. I woke up this morning and wanted to import into my computer my photos from yesterday. It took about 10-15 minutes with the camera turned on and plugged into the computer to complete the process. Once this was done, I picked up the camera. Naturally, it was not hot. But when I checked into the video mode, My remaining time for shooting in 4KHQ 24p had gone from 25 minutes to 10 minutes.
At first, I did accept the limitations on paper. But seeing this, I feel like I almost got scammed from Canon. They didn't have the right to advertise 4KHQ with that kind of performance.

2. In the afternoon, it was 34 degrees out. I left the R5 in the car for 3 hours, in the sun. When I came back, it was boiling, and I could have almost cooked an egg on top of it. I turned it on thinking I would have 0 minute left of shooting. Well, I have the full 25 mins left, and same for 8k. Go figure !

My thought is that it's probably the best hybrid camera available right now. But if canon doesn't fix this overheating issue fast, I will most likely switch to the A74 when that comes out, if the rumors turned out to be exact. By that I mean at least 20MP for stills, and 4K 10 bit 24p for video.
I really wanted to love that camera, and although its great for still, the video performance is making me really sad.
 
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Got my R5 two days ago. Here are two interesting findings about the overheating:

1. I woke up this morning and wanted to import into my computer my photos from yesterday. It took about 10-15 minutes with the camera turned on and plugged into the computer to complete the process. Once this was done, I picked up the camera. Naturally, it was not hot. But when I checked into the video mode, My remaining time for shooting in 4KHQ 24p had gone from 25 minutes to 10 minutes.
At first, I did accept the limitations on paper. But seeing this, I feel like I almost got scammed from Canon. They didn't have the right to advertise 4KHQ with that kind of performance.

2. In the afternoon, it was 34 degrees out. I left the R5 in the car for 3 hours, in the sun. When I came back, it was boiling, and I could have almost cooked an egg on top of it. I turned it on thinking I would have 0 minute left of shooting. Well, I have the full 25 mins left, and same for 8k. Go figure !

My thought is that it's probably the best hybrid camera available right now. But if canon doesn't fix this overheating issue fast, I will most likely switch to the A74 when that comes out, if the rumors turned out to be exact. By that I mean at least 20MP for stills, and 4K 10 bit 24p for video.
I really wanted to love that camera, and although its great for still, the video performance is making me really sad.
Exporting can be a pretty intensive task. That said, it sucks that it’s another thing that eats into video time, and yet another thing that adds to the biggest problem with video on the bodies.... how difficult it is for people to even plan usage with such inconsistent times.
 
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PureClassA

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We've got a guy in the Canon Rumors Discord forum that has some great/bizzarre news on overheating. He seems to have discovered a magic wand here...

Hoping he posts in here shortly. Gave him the link. Ya'll need to get on Discord and follow the CR forum there. Lot's going on!
 
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Got my R5 two days ago. Here are two interesting findings about the overheating:

1. I woke up this morning and wanted to import into my computer my photos from yesterday. It took about 10-15 minutes with the camera turned on and plugged into the computer to complete the process. Once this was done, I picked up the camera. Naturally, it was not hot. But when I checked into the video mode, My remaining time for shooting in 4KHQ 24p had gone from 25 minutes to 10 minutes.
At first, I did accept the limitations on paper. But seeing this, I feel like I almost got scammed from Canon. They didn't have the right to advertise 4KHQ with that kind of performance.

2. In the afternoon, it was 34 degrees out. I left the R5 in the car for 3 hours, in the sun. When I came back, it was boiling, and I could have almost cooked an egg on top of it. I turned it on thinking I would have 0 minute left of shooting. Well, I have the full 25 mins left, and same for 8k. Go figure !

My thought is that it's probably the best hybrid camera available right now. But if canon doesn't fix this overheating issue fast, I will most likely switch to the A74 when that comes out, if the rumors turned out to be exact. By that I mean at least 20MP for stills, and 4K 10 bit 24p for video.
I really wanted to love that camera, and although its great for still, the video performance is making me really sad.

I don't remember the last time I plugged a camera with a wire into a computer to transfer files outside of work, which is probably also why I don't understand why people are so gung-ho about USB-C charging. I'd rather not risk ruining the port or some other assembly on the camera that'll cost hundreds to replace in the case the wire gets snagged, etc.

The R5's closer competitor isn't the A74, it's the A7R4, which has more limited video features than the R5. And if the past is any indication, I'd also agree that the Sony would be better for video... but the A74 is slotted against the R6, which doesn't overheat when using 4K24 (similar to quality of R5 HQ) with an external recorder accord to Gerald Undone's latest tests. So you have the same dichotomy in Canon that you have with Sony. The higher IQ cameras are prone to overheating due to their higher resolution sensors that require more processing. The A7S3 is optimized for 4K with a 12MP sensor, and the A74 will fall somewhere in between. The bigger limitation I see with the R5/R6 is that only Clog is available and not Clog3, which preserves more DR. That and the record limit of 29:59 are limitations in the R ecosystem that are not in Sony's ecosystem.

Personally, I've been burned by Sony. First with an expensive DLP TV that had issues that Sony finally acknowledged but they killed off the line so they never had to fix it, and now more recently with one of their "Tough" UHS-II card. I had predominantly used SanDisk without issue, but I was tempted by Sony's higher speeds and how many have recommended the Tough cards. But then I had 3 file failures in 2 weeks with low-level formats in between. Of course, mine wasn't in the batch that was "recalled" but it also failed shortly after the warranty expired. I've had issues with my Canon gear, but Canon has always been able to fix (some under warranty and some not) them at reasonable prices. If I had only 1 camera body a couple consumer-grade lenses, then I might "risk" Sony, but I'd consider it disposable. But not with multiple bodies with lots of lenses. I'm just glad that Canon closed the "body gap" for stills. Canon may not have "won" video, but as of now, it's video is competitive as opposed to DOA like the 5D4/original R. What other FF MILC has 8K? Will I use it? Probably not, but now I might actually start using 4K instead of 1080P, and that is an upgrade. Do I need 4K HQ? Probably not... usually my videos are of the kids performances where I leave the camera on a tripod (with the start/stop in breaks to deal with the video limit). Is 4K HQ sharper and less noisy? Yes... but I'm not cropping video and at TV viewing distances, it should be OK. Perhaps I'll pick up an external recorder down the line, and by then maybe there will be an aftermarket solution (i.e. tilta cooling fan). Or perhaps Canon will release a RF camcorder. These ARE interesting times.
 
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