EOS-1D X Mark II Claims of 15 Stops of DR [CR3]

[Canon Rumors]

<p>We’re told that Canon will claim 15+ stops of dynamic range for the new Canon EOS-1D X Mark II. This claim was also made for the Cinema EOS C300 Mark II, which may be true at the hardware level, but in practice it may not actually perform to that specification. Let’s hope it’s actually the case with the new 22mp sensor.</p>
<p>Specifications for this camera have been extremely slow to come in from known sources. There is definitely a much tighter ship being run at Canon, but we do expect more to leak out as we approach an announcement in the next 4-8 weeks.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>

 

[heptagon]

15 stops at what resolution?

If on the single pixel level, that would truly be phenomenal!

If on a scaled down image of 1 Megapixel, that wouldn't be very impressive.

 

[tpatana]

One more claim I'm not sure I'd believe completely. Hoping for best of course, but...

 

[boozed]

On-chip ADCs maybe? Say it isn't so Canon!

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

When you really need lots of DR, 15 stops is not enough. DR is, however, basically a measure of noise, so lower noise means higher DR and better high ISO.

 

[frankchn]

If that is true, then this is basically the C300 Mark II sensor scaled up.

(36mm * 24mm) / (24.6mm x 13.8mm) * (8.85 MP) = 22.5 MP

 

[tpatana]

If that is true, then this is basically the C300 Mark II sensor scaled up.

(36mm * 24mm) / (24.6mm x 13.8mm) * (8.85 MP) = 22.5 MP

Since the claim is same, it's highly likely it's same technology, or similar at least.

I missed the parts how/why the C300-II claim was incorrect. Someone give short description what happened there?

 

[frankchn]

Since the claim is same, it's highly likely it's same technology, or similar at least.

I missed the parts how/why the C300-II claim was incorrect. Someone give short description what happened there?

Cinema5D has good write ups about this issue, but it seems to primarily concern filmmakers who are using Log2 Gammas and such. I am not sure if it has any direct relevance to photographers.

• https://www.cinema5d.com/canon-c300-mark-ii-review-dynamic-range/
• https://www.cinema5d.com/canon-measured-15-stops-dynamic-range-c300-mark-ii/

In any case, I would assume that the 4K recording in this camera would be DCI 4K within a Super 35 frame (i.e. exactly the same as the C300 Mark II).

 

[frankchn]

FWIW, I've looked at some reviews from Cinema5D specifically regarding dynamic range and I've summarized them here. Again, this is primarily of interest to filmmakers rather than photographers and video DR does not directly map to photo DR.

• Arri ALEXA - 14 stops
• Sony FS7 - 12.4 stops
• Canon C300 Mark II - 12.3 stops
• Sony A7r II - 12.3 stops
• Sony A7s / A7sII - 11.8 stops
• Leica SL - a bit more than 9 stops

 

[PureClassA]

This is of NO surprise after the C300II. I realize things are all relative as to how they are measured, but as a shooter of the Full Frame 6D, 5D3, and 5DSR, let me offer my following personal observations:

The 5D3 does a very good job allowing me to pull shadows and compress highlights to my satisfaction across the ISO range.

The 6D does a better job.

The 5DSR does a really good job across the ISO range, equal to or better than the 6D.

When I have had the pleasure of shooting 1DX, it has done an excellent job of providing all the latitude I needed, provided I didn't completely F up the shot by 5 stops with the lens cap on...

The 1DX2 I will bet will allow for at least ONE if not MORE stops of latitude than I have previously experienced. This will be a VERY well received professional tool that will sell extremely well for its market base, far far far more than a D5.

 

[Don Haines]

We’re told that Canon will claim 15+ stops of dynamic range for the new Canon EOS-1D X Mark II. This claim was also made for the Cinema EOS C300 Mark II, which may be true at the hardware level, but in practice it may not actually perform to that specification. Let’s hope it’s actually the case with the new 22mp sensor.</p>
<p>Specifications for this camera have been extremely slow to come in from known sources. There is definitely a much tighter ship being run at Canon, but we do expect more to leak out as we approach an announcement in the next 4-8 weeks.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>

If the RAW files are still 14 bit, then say no to 15 stops of dynamic range..... If the RAW files are 16 bit, then say hello!

 

[PureClassA]

Don I suspect not, because there was no such 16 bit RAW capture in the C300 II. We will likely get the same tech scaled up for full frame stills that we got in the C300II. THAT BEING SAID... with a FF sensor vs. Super 35, that SHOULD account for a nice step up even over what the C300II provides. So perhaps a real world output of 13-14 stops is not off the table.

We’re told that Canon will claim 15+ stops of dynamic range for the new Canon EOS-1D X Mark II. This claim was also made for the Cinema EOS C300 Mark II, which may be true at the hardware level, but in practice it may not actually perform to that specification. Let’s hope it’s actually the case with the new 22mp sensor.</p>
<p>Specifications for this camera have been extremely slow to come in from known sources. There is definitely a much tighter ship being run at Canon, but we do expect more to leak out as we approach an announcement in the next 4-8 weeks.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>

If the RAW files are still 14 bit, then say no to 15 stops of dynamic range..... If the RAW files are 16 bit, then say hello!

 

[H. Jones]

Whether or not the claim is true, I'll certainly accept any boost as a worthy upgrade. Professionally I've never once found myself really needing even 12 stops outside of cases where I could easily bracket for a HDR, but I can understand certain uses.

I'd really love to pick up a 1DX Mark II for personal use, but with the added cost over the 5D series, I'm really going to have to justify that to my wallet.

 

[IglooEater]

What was cool (at least to me) about the c300 mark ii's claimed dynamic range was not so much the 15+ stops, but the fact that it maintained 15 stops through to almost iso 100,000- or so they said.

 

[candc]

We’re told that Canon will claim 15+ stops of dynamic range for the new Canon EOS-1D X Mark II. This claim was also made for the Cinema EOS C300 Mark II, which may be true at the hardware level, but in practice it may not actually perform to that specification. Let’s hope it’s actually the case with the new 22mp sensor.</p>
<p>Specifications for this camera have been extremely slow to come in from known sources. There is definitely a much tighter ship being run at Canon, but we do expect more to leak out as we approach an announcement in the next 4-8 weeks.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>

If the RAW files are still 14 bit, then say no to 15 stops of dynamic range..... If the RAW files are 16 bit, then say hello!

I am not up on the binary bits part of it all. Is that how it works, you need 16 bit raw to record 16 stops dr?

 

[adaminc]

On-chip ADCs maybe? Say it isn't so Canon!

On-chip ADCs have been around for... since well the beginning of CMOS image sensors. Essentially any camera these days that uses a CMOS sensor, has ADCs on the sensor, and uses a high speed differential serial communications system like LVDS to move those digital signals off the sensor package (APS).

Edit: Seems that Canon has been using both on and off sensor ADC for some time now, but is going to concentrate on using on sensor ADC.

 

[Orangutan]

I am not up on the binary bits part of it all. Is that how it works, you need 16 bit raw to record 16 stops dr?

I believe the answer is that it's not strictly necessary, but it makes the circuitry simpler. Just as you can represent the range of water temperatures from freezing to boiling as 32-212 or 0-100 (or any other range you choose) you can also represent electron counts on whatever scale you want. However, there would be extra work to "map" (technical term) 15 "stops" of DR into 14bits of data. Extra work means more chips, more heat, higher costs, etc.

If someone out there knows more about this, I hope they'll write in with a better explanation.

 

[Matthew Saville]

As someone who is rooting for Canon but isn't as up to date with the latest progress, can anyone fill me in on just how "verified" the C300 mk2's dynamic range claims are?

If so, I'm pretty willing to believe Canon when they say (leak) that the 1DX mk2 is *designed* to achieve 15+ EV's, and in real-world has at least 13-14 EV's of usable dynamic range.

 

[Matthew Saville]

On-chip ADCs maybe? Say it isn't so Canon!

On-chip ADCs have been around for... since well the beginning of CMOS image sensors. Essentially any camera these days that uses a CMOS sensor, has ADCs on the sensor, and uses a high speed differential serial communications system like LVDS to move those digital signals off the sensor package (APS).

Edit: Seems that Canon has been using both on and off sensor ADC for some time now, but is going to concentrate on using on sensor ADC.

Yeah, that has been one of the issues keeping Canon held back in the base ISO dynamic range category, yet on par or ahead in the high ISO dynamic range category.

If Canon is indeed switching entirely to on-chip ADC from now on, then we can safely assume an easy ~2EV bump in base ISO shadow recovery right off the bat, I bet.

 

[jrista]

If true, this is very welcome. About time. That said, I'll believe it when I see it.

I am skeptical, as they claimed this before with the C300 II, and in testing it wasn't close. I am also curious whether it is an actual linear DR increase at the hardware level, or due to some kind if processing curve.