EOS 5D Mark IV Registered with Indonesian Certification Authority

[Orangutan]

Not many more Rebels though ...

This is a testable hypothesis: you're asserting that the next expected iteration of Rebel will not sell well. We'll see how you react if the next Rebel sells as well as the previous models.

wrong. you did not read/understand what i wrote ... that not many Rebels would be sold (any longer) ... IF and as soon as Canon launches a kick-ass, Rebel-priced EOS M4 (mirrorless, APS-C).

I stand corrected.

 

[slclick]

and we continue to bother

 

[Loswr]

Only slightly more than 3 million MILCs were made last year – by all brands combined – and so far it looks like even fewer will be made in 2016. So you're suggesting that if Canon makes a 'non-stupid' MILC then more people will buy that one model than buy any other brand of MILC?!?

yes i do.

IF Canon were to produce a fully worthy competitor to Sony A7 II and A7R II ... priced like the Sonys ... plus smart range of native lenses priced lower than Sony lenses (like they currently do) ... and IF it happened BEFORE Nikon does an FF MILC system ... YES, Canon would sell millions of those MILC bodies.

A Canon full frame MILC camera would sell millions of units?!? There have been some colossally stupid assertions made on this forum, that one definitely ranks among the most egregiously asinine. If you honestly believe that, I feel sorry for you.

 

[AvTvM]

certainly canon has sold millions of 5D, 5D2, 6D, 5D3 mirrorslappers with FF sensor ... not necessarily in one year, but over a number of years. that is exactly what i expect for canon FF mirrorless canera. actually i would and do expect millions of units for the first generation of canon ff milc bodies (eg. 5X and 5Xs akin to A7 & A7R ). sony has likely sold way more than 100.000 units of A7/S/R ... i do expect canon to sell at 10x sony volumes. just consider the nimber of mirroslappers that many people like myself are eager to replace with smaller, lighter and more fun functional tools.

so yes: millions of units with FF sensor. many more millions with smaller sensor (APS-C) at lower prices ... mirrorless "mRebel/mKiss".

 

[arthurbikemad]

Personally I have no wish for mirrorless, poor battery life, hate EVF's with a passion and so on.

I am a SLAPPER LOVER!

 

[Loswr]

certainly canon has sold millions of 5D, 5D2, 6D, 5D3 mirrorslappers with FF sensor ... not necessarily in one year, but over a number of years. that is exactly what i expect for canon FF mirrorless canera. actually i would and do expect millions of units for the first generation of canon ff milc bodies (eg. 5X and 5Xs akin to A7 & A7R ). sony has likely sold way more than 100.000 units of A7/S/R ... i do expect canon to sell at 10x sony volumes. just consider the nimber of mirroslappers that many people like myself are eager to replace with smaller, lighter and more fun functional tools.

so yes: millions of units with FF sensor. many more millions with smaller sensor (APS-C) at lower prices ... mirrorless "mRebel/mKiss".

Well, the highlighted statement above is just ludicrous, but regardless, your previous statement (and others like it) about 'you and millions of others' who would buy a Canon FF mirrorless implies a pent-up demand that simply doesn't exist. Moving the goalposts doesn't help your case – the way the market stands, no matter how many FF MILCs you think Canon would sell, they'd sell more FF dSLRs...which is why there isn't a Canon FF MILC...yet.

Yes, Canon might sell millions of FF MILCs...over time...eventually. But that will only happen after MILCs are dominant in the ILC market. The way the market has been trending since the introduction of modern MILCs (dSLR sales dropping relatively slowly, MILC sales not increasing), that's many years away, unless a paradigm shift occurs in the market to change the status quo. You might try and argue that Canon launching a FF MILC could be that paradigm shift, but only because you seem unable to grasp that changing the status quo is not in Canon's interest, since they have been and remain the leader of the ILC market.

 

[Orangutan]

certainly canon has sold millions of 5D, 5D2, 6D, 5D3 mirrorslappers with FF sensor ... not necessarily in one year, but over a number of years. that is exactly what i expect for canon FF mirrorless canera. actually i would and do expect millions of units for the first generation of canon ff milc bodies (eg. 5X and 5Xs akin to A7 & A7R ). sony has likely sold way more than 100.000 units of A7/S/R ... i do expect canon to sell at 10x sony volumes. just consider the nimber of mirroslappers that many people like myself are eager to replace with smaller, lighter and more fun functional tools.

so yes: millions of units with FF sensor. many more millions with smaller sensor (APS-C) at lower prices ... mirrorless "mRebel/mKiss".

If I understand correctly, you're asserting that you believe the following: at the same time Canon releases the 5D4, if they also release a mirrorless camera that is functionally nearly-identical to it (sensor, AF, features, EVF, battery life) , but a smaller, full-frame mirrorless, then the mirrorless sales would equal or exceed the "mirrorslapper" 5D4 sales.

 

[AvTvM]

certainly canon has sold millions of 5D, 5D2, 6D, 5D3 mirrorslappers with FF sensor ... not necessarily in one year, but over a number of years. that is exactly what i expect for canon FF mirrorless canera. actually i would and do expect millions of units for the first generation of canon ff milc bodies (eg. 5X and 5Xs akin to A7 & A7R ). sony has likely sold way more than 100.000 units of A7/S/R ... i do expect canon to sell at 10x sony volumes. just consider the nimber of mirroslappers that many people like myself are eager to replace with smaller, lighter and more fun functional tools.

so yes: millions of units with FF sensor. many more millions with smaller sensor (APS-C) at lower prices ... mirrorless "mRebel/mKiss".

If I understand correctly, you're asserting that you believe the following: at the same time Canon releases the 5D4, if they also release a mirrorless camera that is functionally nearly-identical to it (sensor, AF, features, EVF, battery life) , but a smaller, full-frame mirrorless, then the mirrorless sales would equal or exceed the "mirrorslapper" 5D4 sales.

Yes, exactly!

Imagine 5D IV functionality in a mirrorless cam the size of Sony A7R II. Good Well-shaped handgrip, just large enough to hold standard Canon battery size (LP-E6, ideally a version with improved capacity, say 15+ Whrs). Global electronic shutter. No mech compeonents in camera body. Zero vibration. Zero noise. 1/8000s X-sync. DP-AF module that finally delivers the goods: class leading AF system, including tracking moving objetcs. And best in class "Retina" EVF. USD/€ 3500. What's not to like?

Plus a wisely chosen initial range of new *COMPACT* lenses with new native mirrorless mount ("EF-X"), of course fully compatible with EF glass via simple EF-adapter, available at very reasonable cost ... just like EF/EF-M adapter (=less than 100 €/USD). Or make it an "instant rebate" item ...

Business opportunity for Canon is huge ... to sell not only MILC bodies but *millions* of new lenses in "consumer/regular/L" varieties.

... my opinion only, of course

 

[Loswr]

... my opinion only, of course

If it was your opinion that the Earth is flat or the moon is made of green cheese...those would be more credible. :

 

[AvTvM]

... my opinion only, of course

If it was your opinion that the Earth is flat or the moon is made of green cheese...those would be more credible. :

I have to disappoint you. Where I live, earth is neither round nor flat, but mountaineous. ;D

 

[Loswr]

... my opinion only, of course

If it was your opinion that the Earth is flat or the moon is made of green cheese...those would be more credible. :

I have to disappoint you. Where I live, earth is neither round nor flat, but mountaineous. ;D

Ahhh, but earth ≠ the Earth. Those mountains comprising your personal viewpoint are tiny in comparison to the totality of Earth...much like those who would buy a FF MILC are only a very tiny part of the totality of the ILC market. Once again, your personal perspective is irrelevant and not at all representative when considering the global state of affairs. 8)

 

[AvTvM]

the problem is that "a good well-shaped handgrip" and putting an LP-E6 battery in an A7RII would likely make it at least Rebel sized. asking for a 15+Whrs battery (and leaving Sony to work out how to fit it into a small body) is enough

A7R II IS rebel sized ... but with FF sensor. Handgrip is deeper than on Rebels.

 

[slclick]

... my opinion only, of course

If it was your opinion that the Earth is flat or the moon is made of green cheese...those would be more credible. :

I have to disappoint you. Where I live, earth is neither round nor flat, but mountaineous. ;D

These mountains? https://www.flickr.com/photos/128052351@N04/

 

[AvTvM]

These mountains? https://www.flickr.com/photos/128052351@N04/

Interesting! Not from me though. See this Flickr account for the first time.

 

[Loswr]

These mountains? https://www.flickr.com/photos/128052351@N04/

Interesting! Not from me though. See this Flickr account for the first time.

Interesting, indeed! I really enjoy my visits to Switzerland. In that photoset, I did notice how plain the Kapellbrüke looks without the flower boxes.

AvTvM's alter ego, taken in April, 2013:

Me, taken in June, 2015 (from a couple of meters closer to the bridge along the bank of the Reuss):

 

[Orangutan]

certainly canon has sold millions of 5D, 5D2, 6D, 5D3 mirrorslappers with FF sensor ... not necessarily in one year, but over a number of years. that is exactly what i expect for canon FF mirrorless canera. actually i would and do expect millions of units for the first generation of canon ff milc bodies (eg. 5X and 5Xs akin to A7 & A7R ). sony has likely sold way more than 100.000 units of A7/S/R ... i do expect canon to sell at 10x sony volumes. just consider the nimber of mirroslappers that many people like myself are eager to replace with smaller, lighter and more fun functional tools.

so yes: millions of units with FF sensor. many more millions with smaller sensor (APS-C) at lower prices ... mirrorless "mRebel/mKiss".

If I understand correctly, you're asserting that you believe the following: at the same time Canon releases the 5D4, if they also release a mirrorless camera that is functionally nearly-identical to it (sensor, AF, features, EVF, battery life) , but a smaller, full-frame mirrorless, then the mirrorless sales would equal or exceed the "mirrorslapper" 5D4 sales.

Imagine 5D IV functionality in a mirrorless cam the size of Sony A7R II.

That's the problem: we have to imagine it, because the tech is not yet mature. Battery life, AF and EVF still need a fair bit of work to equal what's in the 5D3. Sure, if there a choice between a mirrorless 5D4m and a reflex 5D4 (at around the same price), both having identical performance in AF, battery and EVF, I'd probably prefer the mirrorless. It just doesn't exist, and it won't until Canon and Nikon think they can make it as rock-solid as their SLR lines because they don't want to deal with recalls, tech support calls, returns, etc.

 

[Khufu]

thanks khufu, your posting worked just fine.

the bottom entry in the table gets my interest: PC2258 with wireless module WM500 ... could this be my next Canon body? "EOS M4 Pro" mirrorless body ... custom-built to my specs (small body, big sensor, fast AF, great EVF, bad-ass battery)?

ps: i don't care at all for 5D4. my 5D3 is the last mirrorslapper i ever bought. along with assorted EF/L glass it is sitting in the dark closet 99% of the time and only got 6800 shutter clicks or so. meanwhile my tiny, featherlight EOS M (1) system has accompanief me on cointless trips and excursions and got 35.000+ clicks ... and counting. i will not bother with fat heavy mirrorslappers in the future. make it small, light and mirrorfree for me!

Regarding the PC2258:

It's an "IXUS" (ELAN?)/Powershot of sorts... I think; with a flippy-floppy screen!

Documents for both the AZD237 and AZD500 (aka WM500) Wireless modules state they were installed and tested in the PC2258. One document describes the camera in testing conditions as having the screen open and closed. One document refers to battery powering only whilst the other references the ca-dc10 (powershot/IXUS power supply). I guess there's a chance they could use it in labs to test an EOS M...

Took me ages to find the product code and WiFi module code for the EOS M3, had to download the manual! I see it's now a PCXXXXXX, and not a DSXXXXXX product like the M and M2. Looks a little like the M platform's being dismissed from EOS land, woudn't surprise me if the line lost the 'EOS' designation since losing it's firmware and DS product codes...

There's also some mystery WiFi grip (potentially) coming (I don't know what for, it's similar to the 7D WiFi grip) that is carrying a DS5XXXXX model number. I think that uses the AZD238 or something, if anyone's curious and googling? I'm not sure, I've been poking around lots on that fccid site again but it's time to stop!

 

[Khufu]

Size of platform: 150.7 mm (width)  116.4 mm (height)  75.9 mm (depth)

The 5D4 prototype appears to have lost 2mm in width from the 5D3 (!!!) and hasn't gotten any taller, give or take fractions of a millimetre, despite expectations of a wee 7D/1DX stylee bump... Goodness, I'm blowing some minds here, right?!

 

[AvTvM]

thanks Khufu! interesting findings and speculation!

Downgrading EOS M product line from "EOS" to "Powershot/Ixus/Elph" is one of many "business decisions" and "marketing differentiaton measures" that prompt me to exclaim: STUPID Canon!

@Neuro: indeed, Kapellbrücke with flowers does look better. unfortunately the swiss have not yet created genetically modified geraniums that can withstand Swiss winters outside ...

 

[Loswr]

@Neuro: indeed, Kapellbrücke with flowers does look better. unfortunately the swiss have not yet created genetically modified geraniums that can withstand Swiss winters outside ...

True...but that was April – spring, not winter. I haven't been to Luzern in April, but in Zürich at that time of year there are flowerpots on the streets, and the Universität Basel botanical gardens are blooming!

Regardless, Syngenta should get going on those GMO geraniums right away!