Here are a few Canon EOS R10 specifications [CR3]

Surely removing the EVF achieves the same thing, my M6ii is never anywhere near my nose!
My family and I were at the national parks of NM and TX a few weeks ago, and there were three times that someone took photos for us of the entire family. Each time, the person held the R5 with lens at arms length. I wonder how that can be comfortable but I guess that is what they are used to doing.
 
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Does your smartphone cover a focal length range from 11-200mm, and have an APS-C size sensor? If so, good for you. Mine certainly doesn’t.
I don't take pictures with my smartphone. Not only because I have a camera that makes a much better job, but also because I hate shooting at arms length :LOL:
Of course I use the phone's camera for taking notes and snapping random stuff, but nothing that I would consider "worth keeping", it's mostly things that I delete afterwards.

Each time, the person held the R5 with lens at arms length. I wonder how that can be comfortable
Go figure...
 
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My family and I were at the national parks of NM and TX a few weeks ago, and there were three times that someone took photos for us of the entire family. Each time, the person held the R5 with lens at arms length. I wonder how that can be comfortable but I guess that is what they are used to doing.
Were the pictures any good? There's no inherent benefit to a viewfinder, it's just there because that's how many people learned to take pictures. The stability of holding it close can still be achieved with a screen, although I imagine a good number of these cameras will never take any photos anyway, video will be the primary use-case where an EVF is not only a waste of space but takes up valuable real estate which could have been used for a mic or speaker. I also have no use for a flash on mine and would love to see a model where that is replaced with a bright LED array.
 
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Not only because I have a camera that makes a much better job, but also because I hate shooting at arms length :LOL:
I don't shoot at arms' length with my M6. I tuck in my elbows just like with my R3 and 1D X. Yes, the 3rd contact point of the eyecup is lost, but the rig is much lighter and that 3rd contact point isn't needed to hold the camera steady.

The camera that does the best job is the one you have with you when you want to take a picture. Sometimes that's a smartphone. When traveling light, bringing a FF ILC and lenses is not feasible. Bringing an M6 and 2-3 lenses takes less space than one sneaker.
 
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Yes, the 3rd contact point of the eyecup is lost, but the rig is much lighter and that 3rd contact point isn't needed to hold the camera steady.
The EVF isn’t what would make the camera significantly heavier. It’s an electronic viewfinder, not a pentaprism, it’s a lightweight component.
Plus, we’re comparing an oled EVF to an okay IPS LCD display.
And, yes…stability.
If you could only own one camera, would a camera like the M6 Mark II be your choice? Or would you pick something with an integrated EVF? No need to go high-end, for instance, a M50 is also very light.

When I’m travelling light, I just take my EF 40mm f/2.8 mounted on my R6. I’m still hoping for that RF 40mm f/1.8 to become true.
 
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The EVF isn’t what would make the camera significantly heavier. It’s an electronic viewfinder, not a pentaprism, it’s a lightweight component.
Plus, we’re comparing an oled EVF to an okay IPS LCD display.
And, yes…stability.
The point is not that an EVF adds weight. The point is that a FF ILC and the L-series lenses I typically use (e.g. R3 + 14-35/4L) are substantially heavier than the M6 with EF-M lenses (e.g. M6 + M11-22). The former benefits from a 3rd contact point (eyecup), for the latter it's not needed because the rig is so much lighter. The M5 would work, as well, but I don't find the EVF necessary in any way.

If you could only own one camera, would a camera like the M6 Mark II be your choice? Or would you pick something with an integrated EVF? No need to go high-end, for instance, a M50 is also very light.
If I could own only one, at this point it would be the R3. But I wouldn't always bring it with me. My iPhone is always with me, but that's a huge step down in photographic capability. The M6 fits nicely in between – only a small step down in IQ, and a lot more portable.

When I’m travelling light, I just take my EF 40mm f/2.8 mounted on my R6. I’m still hoping for that RF 40mm f/1.8 to become true.
A single 40mm lens would not suit me for travel photography. My usually kit is either the R3, 11-24/4L, 24-105/4L and TS-E 17 or the R3, 14-35/4L, 24-105/4L and 100-500. For a light load, it's the M6, M11-22 and M18-150.
 
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Were the pictures any good? There's no inherent benefit to a viewfinder, it's just there because that's how many people learned to take pictures. The stability of holding it close can still be achieved with a screen, although I imagine a good number of these cameras will never take any photos anyway, video will be the primary use-case where an EVF is not only a waste of space but takes up valuable real estate which could have been used for a mic or speaker. I also have no use for a flash on mine and would love to see a model where that is replaced with a bright LED array.

The pictures turned out ok, especially after I told them how to use back-button focus. I prefer the EVF, especially when using larger lenses or when it's bright outside.
 
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If you could only own one camera, would a camera like the M6 Mark II be your choice?
Yes. I own the 90D and the M6ii and I'd certainly get rid of the 90D first. As it stands the 90D is permanently mounted to my work desk for video with a 10-22 lens attached. It's not worth removing from the mount as it's too bulky to carry about, so I bought the M6ii with 11-22 for wandering about. It's basically the same camera without the bulk. Sure, the lens isn't quite as good, but it's barely noticable on video or photo if you're looking at the content, and I use my camera to create content for people to see, not critique.
 
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Dragon

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Yes. I own the 90D and the M6ii and I'd certainly get rid of the 90D first. As it stands the 90D is permanently mounted to my work desk for video with a 10-22 lens attached. It's not worth removing from the mount as it's too bulky to carry about, so I bought the M6ii with 11-22 for wandering about. It's basically the same camera without the bulk. Sure, the lens isn't quite as good, but it's barely noticable on video or photo if you're looking at the content, and I use my camera to create content for people to see, not critique.
The M 11-22 isn't quite as fast and has slightly less range than the EF-s 10-22, but it is sharper at every focal length (particularly in the periphery) and it has IS. In my view, that makes the 11-22 a far "better" lens. I also have both a 90D and an M6 II, and the only clear advantage (other than the VF) is the cropped, oversampled 4k video, which is arguably the best 4k video in a Canon (non-cinema) camera prior to the R5 and R6. The 90D is also handy when swinging a long lens, but unfortunately the SLR AF is not that impressive.
 
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You see some specs and therefore you already know how big and good the camera will be?
You must be a genius!
You could read the rumored specs too if you're able and you don't even have to be a genius. Here's a couple of numbers you should pay attention to - 24 is less than 32.5 and 14 is less than15.
 
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You could read the rumored specs too if you're able and you don't even have to be a genius. Here's a couple of numbers you should pay attention to - 24 is less than 32.5 and 14 is less than15.
Does that mean a 32.5mp sensor is always better than a 24mp sensor? Foolish me always thinking too complicated! Never thought it's that simple!

Thank you for enlighten me with your wisdom, Master!
 
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Del Paso

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Were the pictures any good? There's no inherent benefit to a viewfinder, it's just there because that's how many people learned to take pictures. The stability of holding it close can still be achieved with a screen, although I imagine a good number of these cameras will never take any photos anyway, video will be the primary use-case where an EVF is not only a waste of space but takes up valuable real estate which could have been used for a mic or speaker. I also have no use for a flash on mine and would love to see a model where that is replaced with a bright LED array.
"No benefit to a viewfinder": I hope you are kidding.
Ever tried to use a 600mm or a macro without tripod only using the screen to focus and frame?
 
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The point is not that an EVF adds weight. The point is that a FF ILC and the L-series lenses I typically use (e.g. R3 + 14-35/4L) are substantially heavier than the M6 with EF-M lenses (e.g. M6 + M11-22). The former benefits from a 3rd contact point (eyecup), for the latter it's not needed because the rig is so much lighter. The M5 would work, as well, but I don't find the EVF necessary in any way.
1. No, the point is the camera is not becoming significantly heavier. EVF-DC2 for ex. weights about 30 grams.

2. A "so much lighter" (which is not!) rig can't be held more stable because it's lighter. It's rather the opposite. Having no 3rd contact point even increases the instability!
 
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"No benefit to a viewfinder": I hope you are kidding.
Ever tried to use a 600mm or a macro without tripod only using the screen to focus and frame?
Not with the 600/4 (except on a tripod). But for macro, yes...frequently. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever used the VF with my MP-E 65, and only rarely with my EF 100L. For example this shot with the MP-E 65, which was taken with the 5DII in Live View at 5x magnification with the front of the lens shoved into a bush:

Micro-Cosmos.jpg

Before the R and R3, I would use the Angle Finder C with my 1D X for ground-level macros, I suppose that counts as using the VF (although it's a magnified view). But with an articulating screen, even that is no longer needed and almost all of my macro shooting is on the rear LCD.

As a relevant side note, at 5x magnification and f/16, the effective aperture of the MP-E 65 is f/96. Under most ambient lighting, that means the optical viewfinder is essentially black and therefore useless for composition.
 
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josephandrews222

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If you read comments on/in this thread and others like it, and pay attention to the devices used by some really good photographers who post their work here and on other sites, it becomes obvious that some of them have figured out what I think I know (sort of intuitively): different jobs require different tools, and some 'jobs' require the smallest and lightest tools possible.

Many of these folks have the best full-frame gear and lenses...along with the best that Canon offers in a small-and-light set-up...the EF-M series.

I find it impossible to believe that Canon is going to cede the small-and-light market to their competitors.

I also find it impossible to believe that anything based on the R will be as small and as light as the M-series.

My two cents.
 
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koenkooi

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"No benefit to a viewfinder": I hope you are kidding.
Ever tried to use a 600mm or a macro without tripod only using the screen to focus and frame?
For years the M+mp-e+mt24 was my macro rig:
1652333234880.jpeg
The back LCD made it a lot easier to use compared to the dim OVF in my 7D.

A lighter variant with the 270Ex:
1652333425889.jpeg
 
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