Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras [C

3kramd5

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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera

Uneternal said:
If you know Canon from the past, you know that there is no way that this information is correct.

This is a wish list of somebody. I am 1000% sure this is not going to happen.
Here are my predicted specs:

- Definitely no articulating screen (cause they save this for the next model)
- C-Log hahaha nice but no way, same goes for dual slots
- Same sensor like 5D4 - maybe but with 24-26 megapixels instead of 30
- 1/4000 max. shutter - 1/200 xsync
- 4K 30p / FHD 60p
- Frame rate: 6 fps

Except canon does market analysis and if their analysis convinces then they will be more profitable with a spec sheet warrior, that’s where they’ll go.

^ not a prediction
 

j-nord

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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera

It doesn't matter what Canon does with this camera, I know it won't be compelling enough to upgrade/downgrade from a 5DSR. I am also happy to let all the first movers beta test the first gen for me ;D
 

scyrene

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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera

ahsanford said:
neuroanatomist said:
We're not already burdened?

Was waiting for that from you. :p (Quote from Canon, cute.)

I'm an overwhelmingly latter day design lens user + one shot AF + single shot (no burst) user.

So my AF world is super simple: how wide is my spread of AF points, how do I set my zones / clusters, how accurate/consistent/reliable is it, how fast does this lens get the job done... and where is the menu option to smash this STM lens with a hammer because it missed the shot and is the soulless husk of what I want?

- A

Out of interest, why don't you use burst? If nailing fine focus is an issue, it adds a lot of extra shots, of which one might be perfect. I take two or three shots minimum of absolutely any subject (and a lot more of a tricky or special subject), partly to account for slight variation and imperfection in the position of the focal plane.
 

ahsanford

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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera

scyrene said:
Out of interest, why don't you use burst? If nailing fine focus is an issue, it adds a lot of extra shots, of which one might be perfect. I take two or three shots minimum of absolutely any subject (and a lot more of a tricky or special subject), partly to account for slight variation and imperfection in the position of the focal plane.

I wanted to say something smart about being a purist, not needing lots of frames to do the job, the spirit of photography and what not.

...but the truth is that I just don't like wading through all the files. :D

Also, for what I shoot -- largely my life, family, travels, etc. I personally find that bursting is a move that ruffles my subjects a bit. Unless I'm on a tripod shooting landscapes those precious few times a year, my mantra is to stick and move, and burst / chimping / etc. goes against that grain.

(Nothing wrong with bursting, I just don't need it like others here do.)

- A
 

3kramd5

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Mar 2, 2012
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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera

scyrene said:
ahsanford said:
neuroanatomist said:
We're not already burdened?

Was waiting for that from you. :p (Quote from Canon, cute.)

I'm an overwhelmingly latter day design lens user + one shot AF + single shot (no burst) user.

So my AF world is super simple: how wide is my spread of AF points, how do I set my zones / clusters, how accurate/consistent/reliable is it, how fast does this lens get the job done... and where is the menu option to smash this STM lens with a hammer because it missed the shot and is the soulless husk of what I want?

- A

Out of interest, why don't you use burst? If nailing fine focus is an issue, it adds a lot of extra shots, of which one might be perfect. I take two or three shots minimum of absolutely any subject (and a lot more of a tricky or special subject), partly to account for slight variation and imperfection in the position of the focal plane.

I can’t think of a time when my shots from the middle or end of a burst were in better focus than the one at the beginning. Composition, sure. Focus? No. Also, many (most) cameras lock focus in burst mode.
 

stevelee

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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera

ahsanford said:
...but the truth is that I just don't like wading through all the files. :D
. . .
(Nothing wrong with bursting, I just don't need it like others here do.)

I've never tried burst mode. It has never occurred to me to use it when I'm shooting. That is unless you count the automatic exposure bracketing, where three shots are fired.

I can imagine that it could be useful where action is happening too fast to choose the optimum time to push the shutter button, sports and BIF, which I don't do. (My annual sports videos are of after-hours pick-up basketball games at camp in the summers, but rarely any stills.) And I figure that with my luck, the optimum time would be in the 1/12 sec. after one of the shots. (I do know a guy who does great sports photography for a variety of colleges in the region. I have asked him a time or two about how he gets such great color in less than optimum settings, but it has never occurred to me to ask him about his use of burst mode.)

So those of you who regularly use burst mode for other reasons, are there situations that you think it might be useful for me to try burst mode other than just to see if the camera is working?
 

ahsanford

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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera

stevelee said:
So those of you who regularly use burst mode for other reasons, are there situations that you think it might be useful for me to try burst mode other than just to see if the camera is working?

Sure, there's a bunch of reasons:

1) If you are shooting indoors on a body that doesn't have anti-flicker, I'd guessing you'd be able to brute force through the problem with redundant frames that are unaffected.

2) Canon's flagship 50 prime's AF is a finicky diva that you can't trust wider than f/2. Also possibly the Sigma 50 Art for the same reason, but I've never tried it.

3) Children/pets and that whole 'they tend to move' thing.

4) When you really want to nail a very specific moment and you aren't sure when the moment is going to be (doesn't have to be sports/action, it could be a reaction to something, a surprise, etc.).

(Again, I rarely use burst, but I'm sure this forum can conjure up a boatload of other uses.)

- A
 

archiea

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Jan 17, 2013
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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera

Could this be a post for april fools?

I got taken with the fuji x-t3 april fools. This came out a day before.... Just saying...

"Trust No One"
 

ahsanford

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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera

archiea said:
Could this be a post for april fools?

I got taken with the fuji x-t3 april fools. This came out a day before.... Just saying...

"Trust No One"

Sure, but why go halfway with an iffy/unbelievable spec list when the rest of the world's photographic pranksters are offering so much more?

- A
 

stevelee

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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera

ahsanford said:
Sure, there's a bunch of reasons:

Thanks. Many of those sound like situations in which I'd trust my decades of practice in anticipating the peak of the action over some random sample. But I'll try to keep an open mind and at least learn how to turn on burst mode in case I ever am in a situation where I want to try it.

I think my 6D2 has an anti-flicker option, but I don't know if that kicks in automatically by default. There again, something I should look up in case it is a problem.
 

Don Haines

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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera

stevelee said:
ahsanford said:
Sure, there's a bunch of reasons:

Thanks. Many of those sound like situations in which I'd trust my decades of practice in anticipating the peak of the action over some random sample. But I'll try to keep an open mind and at least learn how to turn on burst mode in case I ever am in a situation where I want to try it.

I think my 6D2 has an anti-flicker option, but I don't know if that kicks in automatically by default. There again, something I should look up in case it is a problem.
The 6D2 has anti flicker.... every Canon DSLR (except rebels, I am not sure there) since the 7D2 has it. You have to turn it on.
 

Talys

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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera

Don Haines said:
stevelee said:
ahsanford said:
Sure, there's a bunch of reasons:

Thanks. Many of those sound like situations in which I'd trust my decades of practice in anticipating the peak of the action over some random sample. But I'll try to keep an open mind and at least learn how to turn on burst mode in case I ever am in a situation where I want to try it.

I think my 6D2 has an anti-flicker option, but I don't know if that kicks in automatically by default. There again, something I should look up in case it is a problem.
The 6D2 has anti flicker.... every Canon DSLR (except rebels, I am not sure there) since the 7D2 has it. You have to turn it on.

The anti flicker on Canon is actually really good, too. The anti flicker on Sony, not so much. But few people make a camera buying decision on anti flicker.
 

Talys

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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera

ahsanford said:
How much of this new AF landscape (PDAF, CDAF, different modes with weird little wrinkles like this, variable AF experience as a function of lens, etc.) will we be burdened with as Canon users?

Is this more a culmination of bad decisions Sony made for the sake of time-to-market or expanded older lens compatibility, or are Canonites going to be wading into the same soup of 'it's technical', YMMV as a function of use cases and lenses, etc.?

Or has Canon always been 'it's technical' but they've just better implemented it such that we don't think about it?

- A

This is purely speculation, but in other markets like gaming consoles and cell phones, Sony and their competitors are richly rewarded for pushing out products as quickly as technology permits, even at the hazard of core functionality being very unstable, with some nebulous fix to fix it in the future. The product live cycles are very short, and typically, a new successor or iteration comes out before the original is even a fully stable product.

Is this the future of camera bodies? I sure hope not -- if I jumped on the Sony FF mirrorless wagon on Day 1, I'd have purchased an A7R, and listening to all the reviewers, I would have jumped on to an A7RII, because heck anyone who likes the A7R will love the II. Then with A7R3, I'd have pounced on that for the same reason.

Then, what, 6 years later, I'd have spent $9,000 to have what still contains a lot of features that feel incomplete. For that I could have purchased a 1DXII, and gotten way more mileage out of it.

I like that there are very few features on Canon cameras that feel haphazardly bolted on, awkward to use, or seemingly unfinished. I mean, the very first iteration of DPAF was knock your socks off awesome. On the other hand, I do feel the pain of sometimes having to wait years to get some features into pro bodies. 5D, I am still waiting for a display that moves before I buy one, LOL.

3kramd5 said:
I don’t have any DPAF cameras, but how they operate in live view is likely a good indicator of how a mirrorless camera will. Is it a mix of PDAF for initial acquisition plus CDAF for fine tuning?

I think that live view and EVF shooting on Canon cameras is 100% Dual Pixel Autofocus. There is no PDAF and I don't think Canon uses contrast detect on DPAF bodies. One reason that I think this is that the Sigma 150-600 on its current firmware + Canon 1.4TC III will crash PDAF (and by crash, I mean camera error code forcing power down). However, it will work flawlessly on any Dual Pixel setup, whether live view or M5.
 

3kramd5

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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera

Talys said:
3kramd5 said:
I don’t have any DPAF cameras, but how they operate in live view is likely a good indicator of how a mirrorless camera will. Is it a mix of PDAF for initial acquisition plus CDAF for fine tuning?

I think that live view and EVF shooting on Canon cameras is 100% Dual Pixel Autofocus. There is no PDAF and I don't think Canon uses contrast detect on DPAF bodies.

Of course there is PDAF, that’s what DPAF is doing.

What I meant is: does is rely entirely on phase detection from the DPAF system, or is there some refinement, or a backup for when phase fails? The sigma functionality may be revealing, but it could also just be buggy firmware.
 

stevelee

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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera

Don Haines said:
The 6D2 has anti flicker.... every Canon DSLR (except rebels, I am not sure there) since the 7D2 has it. You have to turn it on.

Thanks. Are there common light sources that I'm liable to encounter for which this is a problem other than fluorescents?
 

Talys

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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera

3kramd5 said:
What I meant is: does is rely entirely on phase detection from the DPAF system, or is there some refinement, or a backup for when phase fails? The sigma functionality may be revealing, but it could also just be buggy firmware.

Yes, I'm sorry. I am conflating three different PDAF implementations -

1. The dedicated autofocus sensor below the mirror on Canon/Nikon DSLRs, that's very fast and accurate.

2. Dual Pixel autofocus, which uses every pixel from the main CMOS sensor for phase detection for the purpose of autofocus.

3. On-sensor PDAF (like Sony's), which, I think, picks the brightest area of the selected AF zone and uses some phase detection technology to autofocus.


Now, when I think about it, I think you're right about Canon dual pixel AF: PDAF is used in conjunction with contrast detection for precise autofocus. I could be mistaken, though. It's been a really long time since I read about DPAF, and it's a step more nerd in the engineering details than I'm usually interested in retaining :)


stevelee said:
Don Haines said:
The 6D2 has anti flicker.... every Canon DSLR (except rebels, I am not sure there) since the 7D2 has it. You have to turn it on.

Thanks. Are there common light sources that I'm liable to encounter for which this is a problem other than fluorescents?

They might be fluorescents of some kind, but lots of sports arenas have lights of some sort that are a problem. Some older, non-LED outdoor street lamps, too. Don't know what the technology of lighting is, but it's fixed by turning on anti-flicker.
 

CanonFanBoy

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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera

Talys said:
Don Haines said:
stevelee said:
ahsanford said:
Sure, there's a bunch of reasons:

Thanks. Many of those sound like situations in which I'd trust my decades of practice in anticipating the peak of the action over some random sample. But I'll try to keep an open mind and at least learn how to turn on burst mode in case I ever am in a situation where I want to try it.

I think my 6D2 has an anti-flicker option, but I don't know if that kicks in automatically by default. There again, something I should look up in case it is a problem.
The 6D2 has anti flicker.... every Canon DSLR (except rebels, I am not sure there) since the 7D2 has it. You have to turn it on.

The anti flicker on Canon is actually really good, too. The anti flicker on Sony, not so much. But few people make a camera buying decision on anti flicker.

If Canon didn't have anti-flicker... 300 people on this forum would drown themselves swimming to Sony Island. ;) Well, they wouldn't actually jump. They'd just tell us over and over again that they are going to jump.
 

AvTvM

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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera

neuroanatomist said:
We're not already burdened?
[quote author=Canon]The number of usable AF points on 61-point AF System will differ depending on the lens. The lenses are classified into 9 groups from A to I. Check below link for which group your lens belongs to. (When using a lens from Group F to H, fewer AF points will be usable)
http://www.canon.com.hk/en/product/catalog/getProductTag.do?tagID=4672
[/quote]


1. ALL EF lenses in existence today will be LEGACY the very day Canon FF MILC appear.
2. Irrespective of the lens mount on those Canon MILCs ... even if it were a "traditional" EF mount.
3. Legacy EF glass will perform on Canon MILCs as it does on mirrorslappers in LiveView mode. At best.
4. Only possible exceptions MAY be EF glass a) with STM AF drive b) with Nano-USM c) very recent EF glass that MAY have chip/firmware in them to allow upgrading to MILC AF systems and other lens-mount-protocol subtleties

No issue for me nor for Canon ... new EF-X lens sales galore. For many years to come. :)
 

neuroanatomist

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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera

AvTvM said:
neuroanatomist said:
We're not already burdened?
[quote author=Canon]The number of usable AF points on 61-point AF System will differ depending on the lens. The lenses are classified into 9 groups from A to I. Check below link for which group your lens belongs to. (When using a lens from Group F to H, fewer AF points will be usable)
http://www.canon.com.hk/en/product/catalog/getProductTag.do?tagID=4672


1. ALL EF lenses in existence today will be LEGACY the very day Canon FF MILC appear.
2. Irrespective of the lens mount on those Canon MILCs ... even if it were a "traditional" EF mount.
3. Legacy EF glass will perform on Canon MILCs as it does on mirrorslappers in LiveView mode. At best.
4. Only possible exceptions MAY be EF glass a) with STM AF drive b) with Nano-USM c) very recent EF glass that MAY have chip/firmware in them to allow upgrading to MILC AF systems and other lens-mount-protocol subtleties

No issue for me nor for Canon ... new EF-X lens sales galore. For many years to come. :)
[/quote]

dSLRs using dedicated PDAF sensors still focus faster than MILCs. The 'legacy' lenses aren't the bottleneck. That dubious honor goes to the MILCs.

Some people don't like sacrificing performance (whereas you'd sacrifice performance along with a dozen baby goats and your grandmother for a miniature Canon FF MILC with a new mount for tiny, slow lenses).
 

scyrene

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Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera

ahsanford said:
scyrene said:
Out of interest, why don't you use burst? If nailing fine focus is an issue, it adds a lot of extra shots, of which one might be perfect. I take two or three shots minimum of absolutely any subject (and a lot more of a tricky or special subject), partly to account for slight variation and imperfection in the position of the focal plane.

I wanted to say something smart about being a purist, not needing lots of frames to do the job, the spirit of photography and what not.

...but the truth is that I just don't like wading through all the files. :D

Also, for what I shoot -- largely my life, family, travels, etc. I personally find that bursting is a move that ruffles my subjects a bit. Unless I'm on a tripod shooting landscapes those precious few times a year, my mantra is to stick and move, and burst / chimping / etc. goes against that grain.

(Nothing wrong with bursting, I just don't need it like others here do.)

- A

Thanks for the answer! :)
 
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