New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification - Updated

fullstop

EOS R
Apr 23, 2018
1,088
153
Re: New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification

Canapologist BS! ;D

a percentage battery charge indicator can be and is implemented in even the cheapest smartphones. Luckily those are not made by Canon ... ;D
 

Mr Majestyk

EOS RP
Feb 20, 2016
419
276
Australia
Re: New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification

But we were told no new DSLR's this year, now we can expect 3!. Not that I'm complaining, but for Canon needs to hit some home runs real soon.
 

mb66energy

EOS 5D Mark IV
Dec 18, 2011
1,535
386
Germany
www.MichaelBockhorst.de
Re: New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification

fullstop said:
Canapologist BS! ;D

a percentage battery charge indicator can be and is implemented in even the cheapest smartphones. Luckily those are not made by Canon ... ;D

Yes, I have built a scale with load cell, arduino and lcd display for about 20 EUR and you can display @ 10ug resolution while repeatability is roughly 10mg (at the moment without thermal isolation of the load cell which will cost three times the money and 20 times the development to come down to e.g. 1mg real resolution.

So
(1) How good are battery indicators of smart phones? My 700EUR Nokia shows 100% for hours after I switched to charge it between 20 ... 90% (not 0 ... 100%).
(2) Do smartphones have current dynamics between 10uA and 3 Amps peak load? I don't think so.
(3) Is the standard use case of temperature for smartphones not between 20°C (room) and 34°C (pocket close to body)? Definitely - but not for cameras.
 

crashpc

EOS RP
Jan 19, 2014
368
7
Re: New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification

mb66energy
That is nonsense really. Better measurements take about no hardware resources, and very little software resources. It actually goes along the way of interpreting real percentage by squares nobody understands to....
That is way too stewpid to do these days. At least give it per pixel amount of battery left. So you can see gradually lets say in 30 pixels (battery indicator width/lenght).
 

mb66energy

EOS 5D Mark IV
Dec 18, 2011
1,535
386
Germany
www.MichaelBockhorst.de
Re: New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification

crashpc said:
mb66energy
That is nonsense really. Better measurements take about no hardware resources, and very little software resources. It actually goes along the way of interpreting real percentage by squares nobody understands to....
That is way too stewpid to do these days. At least give it per pixel amount of battery left. So you can see gradually lets say in 30 pixels (battery indicator width/lenght).

crashpc:
If you say my remarks are nonsense please make "senseful" explanations how "Better measurements take about no hardware resources" - I am ready to learn how industry has overcome 50 years of interpreting battery capacity WITH better hardware resources ...
 

weixing

EOS RP
Jul 20, 2010
619
20
Re: New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification

Hi,
crashpc said:
mb66energy
That is nonsense really. Better measurements take about no hardware resources, and very little software resources. It actually goes along the way of interpreting real percentage by squares nobody understands to....
That is way too stewpid to do these days. At least give it per pixel amount of battery left. So you can see gradually lets say in 30 pixels (battery indicator width/lenght).
Accurate battery measurement is not easy especially for device that don't draw power constantly.... for notebook and mobile phone, you can calibrate your battery to get a more "accurate" measurement. But for DSLR, I'm sure how you going to calibrate your DSLR battery? Since when you are not clicking, the power usage is basically minimum. For mirrorless camera, I guess it might be easier since the camera is always processing image.

Have a nice day.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
26,389
5,130
Re: New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification

mb66energy said:
crashpc:
If you say my remarks are nonsense please make "senseful" explanations how "Better measurements take about no hardware resources" - I am ready to learn how industry has overcome 50 years of interpreting battery capacity WITH better hardware resources ...

Don't hold your breath. This seems to be a case of technical criticism by someone who lacks relevant technical knowledge. That sort of thing is regrettably common on this forum.
 

crashpc

EOS RP
Jan 19, 2014
368
7
Re: New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification

DOH.

Yes, it might even depend on the battery level interpretation. If one wants to see steady decline of the battery level, that is the hard one.

If you´re about real "power left" indication, hell make two maps/curves for heavy load and light load (laboratory measurements using real loads), then apply few coeficients for real voltages on real piece of your accumulator (in-body calibration after few charging and discharging sessions, and even re-calibration after that, as battery capacity and current capabilities go down), and you´re done. Nothing one good engineer could not make in one or two days. With a power supply, volt meter, amper meter, a resistor (or real camera) and a logger.

You might find difficulty, uncertainty, less then ideal precision here and there, but it will always be million times more usable and precise than three to four bars.
For my previous EOS M, they did poor job already, as when I saw first bar to go dim, I knew I have only miutes left before it dies on me. With M6, it is much better, but still weak.
Gosh, it´s Canon, the leading company, right????
 

crashpc

EOS RP
Jan 19, 2014
368
7
Re: New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification

neuroanatomist said:
mb66energy said:
crashpc:
If you say my remarks are nonsense please make "senseful" explanations how "Better measurements take about no hardware resources" - I am ready to learn how industry has overcome 50 years of interpreting battery capacity WITH better hardware resources ...

Don't hold your breath. This seems to be a case of technical criticism by someone who lacks relevant technical knowledge. That sort of thing is regrettably common on this forum.

Heh, when you mentioned it, that is slight miss from your another attempt to put down people personally.
DYIer, repair technician and engineer in electronics for 12 years now. :)
But I have no clue.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
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Re: New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification

Back to the actual topic, a possible FF MILC using an LP-E6 battery is encouraging. It suggests a body size of at least an xxD series, which I think is far preferable to a smaller form factor that becomes an ergonomic challenge with larger lenses like f/2.8 zooms.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
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Re: New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification

crashpc said:
neuroanatomist said:
mb66energy said:
crashpc:
If you say my remarks are nonsense please make "senseful" explanations how "Better measurements take about no hardware resources" - I am ready to learn how industry has overcome 50 years of interpreting battery capacity WITH better hardware resources ...

Don't hold your breath. This seems to be a case of technical criticism by someone who lacks relevant technical knowledge. That sort of thing is regrettably common on this forum.

Heh, when you mentioned it, that is slight miss from your another attempt to put down people personally.
DYIer, repair technician and engineer in electronics for 12 years now. :)
But I have no clue.

Indeed. It's so simple...I'm surprised Canon and Nikon haven't hired you to do it for them. You should contact them and offer your services, your offer might be well received (but I won't hold my breath).

Incidentally, I recently had a repair technician out to clean and check my central air conditioning system, but I wouldn't trust him to design components for it. But you're probably a much better technician.
 

fullstop

EOS R
Apr 23, 2018
1,088
153
Re: New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification

neuroanatomist said:
... a possible FF MILC using an LP-E6 battery is encouraging. It suggests a body size of at least an xxD series, ...

Yes, looks like it.

Interestingly, in A7 III / A9 Sony uses a power pack with 22.6% more charge but only 9.6% more volume than LP-E6N. So - a really good 1800 mAH battery pack could in 2018 possibly be made compact enough to fit into an FF MILC the size of a Sony A7 1st gen [which would be close/r to my preferred size] ... ;D

--------------

Canon LP-E6N Specifications
Battery type: Rechargeable Lithium-Ion power pack
Compatibility: Canon 5D Mark IV & other selected Canon cameras
Voltage: 7.2V DC
Capacity: 1865mAh or 900 shots (CIPA) with the Canon 5D Mark IV
Dimensions: 56 x 20 x 38mm
Weight: 79g

Sony NP-FZ100 Specifications
Battery type: Rechargeable Lithium-Ion power pack
Compatibility: Sony A7 III & other selected Sony cameras
Voltage: 7.2V DC
Capacity: 2280mAh or 610 shots (CIPA) with the Sony A7 III
Dimensions: 52 x 23 x 39mm
Weight: 85g
 

crashpc

EOS RP
Jan 19, 2014
368
7
Re: New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification

Neuro, Canon obviously has better engineers than I am. But it is shame that they are not allowed, for some reason, to do the good job. When I can do it, they can do it one handed, while picking nose with the other hand, obviously. Yet, it didn´t happen. So back to Canon milking their customers...

That was cool story, about you thinking something of your AC repair technician. Really helped to understand the situation. :)
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
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Re: New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification

crashpc said:
Neuro, Canon obviously has better engineers than I am. But it is shame that they are not allowed, for some reason, to do the good job. When I can do it, they can do it one handed, while picking nose with the other hand, obviously. Yet, it didn´t happen. So back to Canon milking their customers...

I fail to see how providing a graphical 'bar' display for battery charge, instead of a numerical percentage readout, constitutes 'Canon milking their customers'. Can you explain your reasoning? Does knowing at a glance whether there is 'a lot', 'some', or 'not much' charge left have a detrimental impact on your photography, or conversely would knowing that you have 77% or 24% charge remaining improve your images or give you profound pleasure while using your camera? Does the bar-based charge display make your life meaningless, or send you to that dark place from which escape is difficult? Sounds like a very petty complaint to me. I wonder…if canon were to provide a numerical percentage readout for battery charge level, would you complain that it was not accurate to three significant figures? Is displaying that your battery has 63% charge 'milking their customers' when they could display the remaining charge as 63.274%?
 

mkabi

EOS RP
Mar 21, 2013
510
2
41
What makes you guys think its going to be a DSLR or FF MILC?

What battery does the XC10/XC15 use again?
 

Kit.

EOS 5D Mark IV
Apr 25, 2011
2,217
1,531
Re: New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification

crashpc said:
Heh, when you mentioned it, that is slight miss from your another attempt to put down people personally.
DYIer, repair technician and engineer in electronics for 12 years now. :)
But I have no clue.
Actually, if you are engineer, you will probably not want to make a gauge with the precision an order of magnitude higher than the accuracy of the value it displays.
 

crashpc

EOS RP
Jan 19, 2014
368
7
Re: New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification

Kit. said:
crashpc said:
Heh, when you mentioned it, that is slight miss from your another attempt to put down people personally.
DYIer, repair technician and engineer in electronics for 12 years now. :)
But I have no clue.
Actually, if you are engineer, you will probably not want to make a gauge with the precision an order of magnitude higher than the accuracy of the value it displays.

That equation doesn´t hold up well.
Why not? If your display medium cannot display the precise value, you simply round it accordingly, so to speak.
Then you have precise meter "once for all", and you scale the output accordingly for the device/display. That is, changing one or few variables in your code. Legs on the table. :)
 

fullstop

EOS R
Apr 23, 2018
1,088
153
millions of smartphone users and i prefer to get a clear indication of remaining battery charge in any mobile device that is dependent on battery power.

It helps to plan ahead, especially when one is forced to use customer-milking whimpy old Canon batteries like the infamous LP-E12 in the EOS M50. Even if the percentage is not precise to the 3rd digit after the comma, it is way better to see "18% charge remaining" and be able to quickly change battery rather than running out of power just when a once in a lifetime shot presents itself because 3-bar indicator still showed 3 or 2 bars until battery is nearly empty.

But beyond that - "3 or 4 bar charge indicators" are derelict fossils of the "electronic middle ages" (1970s) and simply no longer adequate in 2018. I simply do not want to see stuff like that in expensive, "hi grade" cameras from a self-proclaimed, innovative "leader in digital imaging", when there are functionally superior solutions readily available.

But of course, "Canapologists" see it differently: to them, Canon can not suck enough in any feature to not defend it anyways. :p
 

crashpc

EOS RP
Jan 19, 2014
368
7
fullstop:
You know what´s worst? That sooner(later) or even later, Canon brings it to the table, not in a very quiet way, and we, customers, should pretend, that we´re shitting ourselves because of the innovation.
Like, it is all important, they know they need to do it, they do it later, but at the time the feature isn´t present, we´re just whiners. That is all BS.
 

BeenThere

EOS R
CR Pro
Sep 4, 2012
1,243
671
Eastern Shore
The way I use the bty indicator on my camera is:

If it is one bar down (or more) from full at the end of the day, then I charge it overnight.
If is is one bar from being exhausted while shooting (if I notice) then I change it out for a fresh one at the first opportunity.

I apologize in advance for saying that this works well for me.