New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification - Updated

3kramd5

EOS R6
Mar 2, 2012
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Re: New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification

crashpc said:
mb66energy
That is nonsense really. Better measurements take about no hardware resources, and very little software resources. It actually goes along the way of interpreting real percentage by squares nobody understands to....
That is way too stewpid to do these days. At least give it per pixel amount of battery left. So you can see gradually lets say in 30 pixels (battery indicator width/lenght).

You can not enable with software something which isn’t present in the configuration. That would be like adding GPS to a camera by flashing its FPGA.

The hardware resources for a more accurate State of Charge indicator would most likely be packaged in the battery, not in the camera (you could put it in the camera, but since most camera batteries are charged externally, you’d have to duplicate it in the charger). The camera processor communicates with the battery to display remaining charge, which is typically computed by an IC using an integral function of current and time.

I don’t know if canon stylizes its intelligent batteries, but the aforementioned (by AVTVM in reply 31) Sony FZ100 is marketed as “iNFOlithium” because of the charge monitoring.
 

fullstop

EOS R
Apr 23, 2018
1,088
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Just for good balance: I also WINCE, "WHINE" and LAUGH - seeing "Sony's approach to battery charge indication". :p ;D

duo8hclf1n4hpex7n.jpg


If I were using one, I would RANT! ;D ;D ;D
 

neuroanatomist

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Jul 21, 2010
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BeenThere said:
The way I use the bty indicator on my camera is:

If it is one bar down (or more) from full at the end of the day, then I charge it overnight.
If is is one bar from being exhausted while shooting (if I notice) then I change it out for a fresh one at the first opportunity.

I apologize in advance for saying that this works well for me.

Same here, it’s a practical approach.

But I guess some people may find photography a bit boring, and watching the battery level change in 1% decrements would give them something to do. “Maybe this next shutter press will be the one that drops it from 69% to 68%...ooooooooo, I hope so, it’s so exciting to watch a number change!”
 

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
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Re: New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification

neuroanatomist said:
Back to the actual topic, a possible FF MILC using an LP-E6 battery is encouraging. It suggests a body size of at least an xxD series, which I think is far preferable to a smaller form factor that becomes an ergonomic challenge with larger lenses like f/2.8 zooms.

+1. Bigger battery (specifically this one that we know the form factor of) = a chunkier grip, which is essential for a FF ILC as Neuro points out. And a chunky grip reads well for those wanting a top LCD.

But Neuro, I'm lost -- the only models with the larger battery (that we know of) on this list are both SLRs, correct? K436 and K437, right?

(Edit: I see, you must be referring to the updated info, the DS 126721?)

- A
 

fullstop

EOS R
Apr 23, 2018
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Re: New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification

3kramd5 said:
You can not enable with software something which isn’t present in the configuration. That would be like adding GPS to a camera by flashing its FPGA.

The hardware resources for a more accurate State of Charge indicator would most likely be packaged in the battery, not in the camera (you could put it in the camera, but since most camera batteries are charged externally, you’d have to duplicate it in the charger). The camera processor communicates with the battery to display remaining charge, which is typically computed by an IC using an integral function of current and time.

I don’t know if canon stylizes its intelligent batteries, but the aforementioned (by AVTVM in reply 31) Sony FZ100 is marketed as “iNFOlithium” because of the charge monitoring.

No need to go into technical detail. It suffices, that percent charge remaining is implemented on any smartphone. And is implemented also in many Canon cameras - like 5D3 - but only VISIBLE via "menu diving" under "battery information". So hardware - camera + battery - and firmware/software seems to be CAPABLE of showing % battery charge. Even in Canon cameras.

But Canon marketing nerfs and decides to "differentiate" cameras by putting either a 3 or 4 segment battery charge indicator on the rear display. Via software!
 

3kramd5

EOS R6
Mar 2, 2012
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Re: New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification

fullstop said:
No need to go into technical detail

Technical detail is one of the things which sets this venue above others. I’ll contribute it when I can.

fullstop said:
It suffices, that percent charge remaining is implemented on any smartphone.

Some, not all. Also, the Apple iPod Touch devices, for example, lack percentage readout (at least they did a couple years ago when I got one for my son).

You could write software to display a percentage in the same way you can write software to display bars. If the proper hardware hooks are not present, that percentage may be no more accurate than the several bar scheme despite providing the precision of 100 bars.

Incidentally, many phones are capable of displaying the actual power of the signal, but people seem to prefer service “bars” or “dots.” I wonder why that’s is? Maybe we’ve been conditioned to Apple’s, Samsung’s, Nokia’s, LG’s, RIM’s, Google’s, and Huawei’s nerfing.
 

fullstop

EOS R
Apr 23, 2018
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There really is no *technical* reason whatsoever why Canon cameras could not also display battery charge both with bars and % number. Why not like this, STUPID Canon?

akrales_180323_2383_0206-1024x683.jpg


Bigger picture to study in full detail how Sony has managed to implement the *exceedingly difficult to achieve technological feat* ... a "dual info battery charge indicator"! OMG! ;D
https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/30/17176246/sony-a7-a7r-iii-alpha-3-mirrorless-camera-review-specs-price
 

3kramd5

EOS R6
Mar 2, 2012
3,084
405
fullstop said:
There really is no *technical* reason whatsoever why Canon cameras could not also display battery charge both with bars and %
Correct. It is technically feasible. In the cases where they do not display a somewhat meaningful percentage, you now know the reason (battery doesn’t have the circuitry).

I rented the R3 and played with it for 4 days. It’s a marked improvement over the R2, like: whole different camera different. If the usability stuff they put into the third generation had been in the second generation (all of which was technically feasible at the time, Sony marketing nerfed the r2 obviously), I probably would have kept mine.

This is a whole lot of ranting for something you don’t/won’t use. Glad we’re back to baseline!
 

fullstop

EOS R
Apr 23, 2018
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don't get me started on DUMB Canon batteries. Or do I really need to mention that whimpy 2012 LP-E12 Canon stuck into a 2018 camera? :p ;D

btw: "service bars/dots" on phones - my "conspiracy theory" is, that service providers are pushing/forcing this type of info presentation. prefer to keep things "rather intransparent, murky and unprecise", otherwise users would notice even more, how bad signal service often is. Maybe not so different from Canon's reasons to NOT clearly show things like battery charge or focus distance - neither in camera nor in EXIF data [unless that has been fixed recently]. :p
 

3kramd5

EOS R6
Mar 2, 2012
3,084
405
fullstop said:
btw: "service bars/dots" on phones - my "conspiracy theory" is, that service providers are pushing/forcing this type of info presentation. prefer to keep things "rather intransparent, murky and unprecise", otherwise users would notice even more, how bad signal service often is

Maaaaybe. I’m more inclined to thinking they don’t expect the average user to understand the logarithmic scale, and would freak out at negative values.
 

fullstop

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Apr 23, 2018
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3kramd5 said:
fullstop said:
btw: "service bars/dots" on phones - my "conspiracy theory" is, that service providers are pushing/forcing this type of info presentation. prefer to keep things "rather intransparent, murky and unprecise", otherwise users would notice even more, how bad signal service often is

Maaaaybe. I’m more inclined to thinking they don’t expect the average user to understand the logarithmic scale, and would freak out at negative values.

what negative values? Mobile phone signal strength at worst is zero. And percentages are easy to understand. 100% = "Optimal" = whatever defined "physical field strength" that may be. 0% = zero. Everything in between is straightforward linear.

Personally I hate logarithmic scales and do not see any need for them in daily life / consumer goods. Scientific/engineering use fine, whatever. But NEVER EVER on displays of consumer devices. very bad usability. Same as "db" values on volume knobs. It goes from "silent" [0] to "max" [11]. ;-)

PS: volume level "11" is defined as "so loud that police will break down my door within 11 minutes". :)
 

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification

fullstop said:
neuroanatomist said:
... a possible FF MILC using an LP-E6 battery is encouraging. It suggests a body size of at least an xxD series, ...

Yes, looks like it.

Interestingly, in A7 III / A9 Sony uses a power pack with 22.6% more charge but only 9.6% more volume than LP-E6N. So - a really good 1800 mAH battery pack could in 2018 possibly be made compact enough to fit into an FF MILC the size of a Sony A7 1st gen [which would be close/r to my preferred size] ... ;D

--------------

Canon LP-E6N Specifications
Battery type: Rechargeable Lithium-Ion power pack
Compatibility: Canon 5D Mark IV & other selected Canon cameras
Voltage: 7.2V DC
Capacity: 1865mAh or 900 shots (CIPA) with the Canon 5D Mark IV
Dimensions: 56 x 20 x 38mm
Weight: 79g

Sony NP-FZ100 Specifications
Battery type: Rechargeable Lithium-Ion power pack
Compatibility: Sony A7 III & other selected Sony cameras
Voltage: 7.2V DC
Capacity: 2280mAh or 610 shots (CIPA) with the Sony A7 III
Dimensions: 52 x 23 x 39mm
Weight: 85g
Sony is one of the leading manufacturers of Li-on batteries and was the first, so they should be at the forefront. The technology is pretty much the same right now, but big improvements may be coming. ( https://www.computerworld.com/article/3183670/computer-hardware/inventor-of-new-lithium-ion-battery-responds-to-skepticism.html) to get more capacity, you make the insulation thinner, which makes for more melt downs in cases where the thinner insulating barrier fails. So, its a tradeoff, reliability versus capacity. Canon does tend to opt for the conservative side of things. While Sony batteries and Nikon batteries get recalled, I don't recall that happening to Canon.
 

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
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Again, I appreciate this enthralling discussion of alleged battery nerfing ::), but we are driving around a MUCH bigger piece of news here: a bunch of new bodies appearing to be en route and they don't naturally line up with what we were expecting. Discuss!

And it's a decent bet that at least one of the above is part of all these certifications. So the question is: which one is it?

DS126721: Mirrorless or SLR. Larger battery = chunky gripped SLR (90D, 7D3, 5DS2/5DSR2) or FF mirrorless?

D436: SLR, presumed less fancy due to 4-stage battery. Guess would be new Rebel for Q1 2019 release (which would be right on time for its two year cycle).

D437: SLR, presumed more fancy due to 6-stage battery. This is the anybody's guess item -- 90D, 7D3, or 5DS2/5DSR2. My money's on a 90D coming out first.

K424 / K433 / EC 811 = Three new mirrorless cameras. M5 Mk II? M6 Mk II? Multiple colors of the same lower-level MXX or MXXX camera?

- A
 

neuroanatomist

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Re: New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification

3kramd5 said:
Some, not all. Also, the Apple iPod Touch devices, for example, lack percentage readout.

Incidentally, many phones are capable of displaying the actual power of the signal, but people seem to prefer service “bars” or “dots.” I wonder why that’s is? Maybe we’ve been conditioned to Apple’s, Samsung’s, Nokia’s, LG’s, RIM’s, Google’s, and Huawei’s nerfing.

Indeed. Even on my iPhone, which can display the % charge, that setting is off by default.

Because a thing can be done, doesn't mean it should be done.

Should the camera also display the readout from the internal temperature sensor(s)? Number of images recorded on the inserted memory card(s) and total space used along with total space available and estimated shots remaining (which, of course, switches to durations and space for video shooting, except stills can be captured during video and one-touch movie recording is possible, so better display both used and available space as images, movie durations, and GB with five significant figures). Lens focal length, focus distance, DoF, external flash head zoom and power level and temperature and battery level, yeah, people need that info. Available DR, lens transmittance, physical diameter of the aperture, sure, display those too. But some people might only want to see some of that, so add 7 new menu tabs for those settings.

Or they could Keep It Simple, Stupid.
 

neuroanatomist

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Jul 21, 2010
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ElBerryKM13 said:
This forum reminds me of macrumors forum where if you criticize apple you get attacked by a lot of their members for pointing out such flaws.

Had a chuckle reading mb66energy and neuroanatomist making excuses for canon. I guess blind fans are everywhere lol.

Yes, anyone who shares your bias is spot on, anyone who doesn't is just making excuses. Now that's worth a chuckle.
 

fullstop

EOS R
Apr 23, 2018
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Just for the record, I do recall recalls :) also with Canon batteries and "product advisories"

e.g.
shorturl.at/uGNU2
shorturl.at/kwZ08

Personally I never had an issue with OEM Canon batteries and am quite pleased with the LP-E6/N type.
NB-2L /NB-2LH in early Powershots were real dogs however. :)
And the LP-E12 may be safe, but it is whimpy. :)
 

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
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fullstop said:
Why not like this, STUPID Canon?

Ah, there it is. I feel like Steve Urkel was in disguise with a fake mustache and Sherlock Holmes hat, but he just couldn't resist blurting out a "Did I do that?!"

- A
 

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fullstop

EOS R
Apr 23, 2018
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well I bet there is not only 1 person who thinks Canon and/or their products are pretty STUPID at times. ;D
 

jayphotoworks

EOS RP
Aug 11, 2016
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fullstop said:
There really is no *technical* reason whatsoever why Canon cameras could not also display battery charge both with bars and % number. Why not like this, STUPID Canon?

akrales_180323_2383_0206-1024x683.jpg


Bigger picture to study in full detail how Sony has managed to implement the *exceedingly difficult to achieve technological feat* ... a "dual info battery charge indicator"! OMG! ;D
https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/30/17176246/sony-a7-a7r-iii-alpha-3-mirrorless-camera-review-specs-price

I think battery % is quite convenient on the rear display. When I am shooting video on a gimbal, I have a much better idea of my battery life that doesn't fall somewhere between 49% and 20% without diving into menus. I can't just slide out and swap the battery without having to take the entire gimbal sled off.

Would I consider this nitpicking since Canon doesn't have it? Sure. Could I survive shooting without it? Sure. Do I have to? Definitely not.. This is one of many reasons I don't shoot with Canon bodies anymore for video.