New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification - Updated

[BillB]

This thread illustrates that some people will argue over the most ridiculous stuff. It’s a battery level indicator. Who cares?

i do. Only Canapologists would not.

A Canapologist being anyone who doesn't buy into paranoid speculations about why Canon does what it does (and whether it has any importance).

 

[ahsanford]

This thread illustrates that some people will argue over the most ridiculous stuff. It’s a battery level indicator. Who cares?

i do. Only Canapologists would not.

I'll actually bite on this -- not as a battery comment, but as a general forum conduct comment.

Just stop. Consider the edit above.

'I care about this and only bad people don't care about this' does not show respect, insight, or a willingness to debate. Try "I respectfully disagree -- I actually care about this feature and here's why..." Which you tried to do in your inartful way. Well done, now walk away.

But this whole 'You are part of the solution or you are part of the problem' implies the haymaker you believe you have so awesomely connected on is more important than the actual discussion we all came here for. This is a discussion forum, not a place you win or lose.

Again: stop. When those impulses arise, consider being the better person and walking away. Even if I tire of your antics, I believe in your better self, FullAvTvMStop. You can do it!

- A

 

[3kramd5]

This thread illustrates that some people will argue over the most ridiculous stuff. It’s a battery level indicator. Who cares?

i do. Only Canapologists would not.

I think if you go back to this particular branch of the thread, you’ll find that people are either indifferent to a percentage indicator (e.g. I don’t need it) or supportive (e.g. it is nice to have or I need it). I have a foot in both camps (I don’t need it but it is nice to have). Additionally, you’ll find discussion about whether it is something a software engineering intern can meaningfully add over his lunch break, or whether hardware needs to support it.

I don’t think you’ll find anyone “apologizing” for it not being there.

I see many people who advocate for dedicated exposure comp dials. I have no interest in an exposure comp dial; I didn’t use it once in ~25,000 shots with my A7R2. Don’t care. One being there wouldn’t stop me from purchasing a canon camera, but neither would my indifference be motivated by an impulse to defend canon. It’s similar to your feelings on video, over the lack of which someone could play the same “nerf” card and accuse you of being a paid shill for defending.

I think that’s your biggest disconnect. People aren’t apologizing for Canon merely because their priorities differ from your own, they just don’t see a % indicator on a battery to be compelling.

 

[HarryFilm]

Meanwhile, back on topic, a less-than-reliable rumor aggregator than CR is claiming they have a source who says the following:

K436 = 80D Mk II (not 90D)
K437 = 7D3
EC 811 = M5 Mk II

...with all three having the same new 28 MP AA-filter-free APS-C sensor. :

We can pick this apart a host of ways, but I think the obvious steaming turd to this rumor would be K436 -- with a Rebel-class battery -- being put into a product line heretofore rocking the bigger LP-E6/N battery that the nicer cameras get. On paper, if K436 is an SLR getting a smaller battery, good money says it's the next Rebel and not the next 80D.

- A

---

I am REALLY TEMPTED to say.....I TOLD YOU SO!

....but....we'll wait and see what Canon comes out with on their update to something that MAY look like or act like the XC-15 (i.e. an interchangeable lens one inch chip combined stills/video camera), OR....the new M5-like Mirrorless which POSSIBLY has a short flange distance, AND....a likely by 2019 new large sensor MF dslr!

An 80D/90D replacement/update seems a tad too conveniently close to the introduction to the M50 in my opinion. I would more suspect that a 7D Mark3 like camera or maybe even an update to a 5D SR2 with better burst frame rate and lower noise could be in the pipeline! The development costs to do those updates are NOWHERE NEAR my above assertions and would definitely make for a timely interim solution to best some of Sony's recent offerings!

I haven't received too much different from my own sources within the last three weeks, so I am now in the dark about as much as you all are here! All I hear nowadays is more blurbs about an XC-15 like one inch sensor interchangeable lens camera, an M5-like APS-C system and a large sensor MF camera!

REMEMBER! YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST !!!!!!!!!

 

[Talys]

This thread illustrates that some people will argue over the most ridiculous stuff. It’s a battery level indicator. Who cares?

i do. Only Canapologists would not.

I think if you go back to this particular branch of the thread, you’ll find that people are either indifferent to a percentage indicator (e.g. I don’t need it) or supportive (e.g. it is nice to have or I need it). I have a foot in both camps (I don’t need it but it is nice to have). Additionally, you’ll find discussion about whether it is something a software engineering intern can meaningfully add over his lunch break, or whether hardware needs to support it.

I don’t think you’ll find anyone “apologizing” for it not being there.

I see many people who advocate for dedicated exposure comp dials. I have no interest in an exposure comp dial; I didn’t use it once in ~25,000 shots with my A7R2. Don’t care. One being there wouldn’t stop me from purchasing a canon camera, but neither would my indifference be motivated by an impulse to defend canon. It’s similar to your feelings on video, the lack of which someone could play the same “nerf” card and accuse you of being a paid shill for defending.

I think that’s your biggest disconnect. People aren’t apologizing for Canon merely because their priorities differ from your own, they just don’t see a % indicator on a battery to be compelling.

+1

 

[fullstop]

no, if you look at responses. The minute i said, sad that Canon registration descriptions hinge on tiny marketing nerfs like 3 vs. 4 segment battery indicators, Canapologists immediately started apologizing Canon. Stating "oh how difficult it is", "hardware", "software", yada yada, wehn Sony can do it and any smartphone maker in China can do it. And all the while there are Canon cameras and batteries and hard- and software that perfectly can show percentage charge, but only via menu diving. Nothing but apologies, apologies.

And while it is certainly not the most important element on a camera, it is not only an indicator fpor remining battery charge but also INDICATIVE who Canon cuts every single little corner it can cut. Nickling and diming its customers all the way, nerfing their products, creating totally unnecessary "feature differentiation", that in truth has no cost associated with it. That's what I am calling them out for. And my calling them out drives the Canapologists into total frenzy. Every single time.

I call Canon out, they canapologize. No matter whether it is more than 18% shot reach that Canon stiffs their paying M50 customers for, whether it is a 1970s style 3-segment charge indicator on some Rebel - it does not matter. Marketing nerf is marketing nerf. And no matter how stupid the nerf is, some people here will start to launch apologies for Canon. That's what I find strange and amusing at the same time.

 

[scyrene]

Re: New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification

Canapologist BS! ;D

a percentage battery charge indicator can be and is implemented in even the cheapest smartphones. Luckily those are not made by Canon ... ;D

Yes, I have built a scale with load cell, arduino and lcd display for about 20 EUR and you can display @ 10ug resolution while repeatability is roughly 10mg (at the moment without thermal isolation of the load cell which will cost three times the money and 20 times the development to come down to e.g. 1mg real resolution.

So
(1) How good are battery indicators of smart phones? My 700EUR Nokia shows 100% for hours after I switched to charge it between 20 ... 90% (not 0 ... 100%).
(2) Do smartphones have current dynamics between 10uA and 3 Amps peak load? I don't think so.
(3) Is the standard use case of temperature for smartphones not between 20°C (room) and 34°C (pocket close to body)? Definitely - but not for cameras.

Your replies are interesting and informative, but they fall on deaf ears. You're talking to someone who has no interest whatsoever in how things work, and the moment something is explained, they resort to insults and obfuscation.

 

[3kramd5]

no, if you look at responses. The minute i said, sad that Canon registration descriptions hinge on tiny marketing nerfs like 3 vs. 4 segment battery indicators, Canapologists immediately started apologizing Canon. Stating "oh how difficult it is

What actually happened is:
You made an assertion that percentage charge indication is nothing more than a tiny bit of firmware. You were immediately corrected, and it went from there.

“It might be a minor addition to the code load if the battery used has the circuitry.” That’s it; that’s the dispassionate discussion you attribute to knee jerk devotion.

 

[scyrene]

This forum reminds me of macrumors forum where if you criticize apple you get attacked by a lot of their members for pointing out such flaws.

Had a chuckle reading mb66energy and neuroanatomist making excuses for canon. I guess blind fans are everywhere lol.

I wish I could say I chuckled at your brainless contribution, but alas it just makes my opinion of humanity drop a tiny bit more.

 

[fullstop]

What actually happened is:
You made an assertion that percentage charge indication is nothing more than a tiny bit of firmware. You were immediately corrected, and it went from there.

I was not corrected. I delivered prof, that that tiny piece of firmware is already implemented in many Canon cameras, like in the 5D3. So obviosly all the hardware needed is in place, both camera and battery-side [LP-E6/N, likely with other models too]. So all the techno-babble was totally irrelevant. It is a tiny little piece of code. Nothing else.

Putting only a "4-stage" or "6-stage" battery charge indicator on 2018 cameras but no percentage or hiding the percentage in the menu system is .. inadequate. That's what I said and not 1 millimeter of it can be "corrected".

 

[3kramd5]

What actually happened is:
You made an assertion that percentage charge indication is nothing more than a tiny bit of firmware. You were immediately corrected, and it went from there.

I was not corrected.

Lol. Okay.

 

[dak723]

What actually happened is:
You made an assertion that percentage charge indication is nothing more than a tiny bit of firmware. You were immediately corrected, and it went from there.

I was not corrected.

Lol. Okay.

Yes, sometimes you have to let the baby cry, have their little tantrum, and then coo encouraging words to them to make them know everything will be all right.

 

[sanj]

Mind numbing to see people not preferring a precise battery status bar.

 

[crashpc]

fullsrop ++ :-D
Apologists and trolls with no data in their hands resorting to putting down people.

 

[HarryFilm]

Re: New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification

You can not enable with software something which isn’t present in the configuration. That would be like adding GPS to a camera by flashing its FPGA.

The hardware resources for a more accurate State of Charge indicator would most likely be packaged in the battery, not in the camera (you could put it in the camera, but since most camera batteries are charged externally, you’d have to duplicate it in the charger). The camera processor communicates with the battery to display remaining charge, which is typically computed by an IC using an integral function of current and time.

I don’t know if canon stylizes its intelligent batteries, but the aforementioned (by AVTVM in reply 31) Sony FZ100 is marketed as “iNFOlithium” because of the charge monitoring.

No need to go into technical detail. It suffices, that percent charge remaining is implemented on any smartphone. And is implemented also in many Canon cameras - like 5D3 - but only VISIBLE via "menu diving" under "battery information". So hardware - camera + battery - and firmware/software seems to be CAPABLE of showing % battery charge. Even in Canon cameras.

But Canon marketing nerfs and decides to "differentiate" cameras by putting either a 3 or 4 segment battery charge indicator on the rear display. Via software!

---

"....You can not enable with software something which isn’t present in the configuration. That would be like adding GPS to a camera by flashing its FPGA. ..."


NOT QUITE TRUE.....Since the ARM A4 and M4 cores on many DIGICS DO HAVE 10-bit or 14-bit ADC (analog to digital convertors) and IO pins for same, AND since SOME of the chips can be as fast as 2.0 GHz, it means they COULD sample the 1.575.42 MHz, 1227.60 MHz and 1.023 MHz at a reduced accuracy. If the FPGA circuit is fast enough YES you could attach a proper cable/antenna construct to the analog IO pins and get a GPS signal with just a flash bios update!

Of course, you really do need twice the signal rate (Nyquist sampling) to get a true representation of the GPS signal without error....BUT....with some fancy math...IT CAN BE DONE on a Canon 1.5 GHz+ DIGIC 6/7/8 and/or 1.5 GHz FPGA system!

....AND..... that also means you could sample electrical flow to get a decent percentage-base "Amount of Battery Power Remaining" value just by adding some extra math to the power usage parameters within the Canon camera BIOS software.
Shoudn't cost more than a few tens of clock cycles every second!

Anyways, with microcode software ANYTHING can be added to a Canon camera...as pointed out by our buyer who LIKED what they saw with our codec! It does mean though that extensive testing MUST be done because microcode ABSOLUTELY CAN BRICK a Canon Camera as I found out more than a few expensive times!
See what happens boss-swearing-wise when you brick one of his $6000 camera bodies! (p.s. you can force-upload a new bios into many bricked Canon's but you have to open up the camera on a test bench!)

 

[fullstop]

could
* KS436 possibly be "SL-3"? SL-2/EOS 200D successor? Canon knows there is demand for downsized camera bodies, both as primary or secondary/backup gear
* KS437 possibly 7D iii - even if ahead of "expected" update cycle, Canon should do something to get ahead of Nikon D500? )
* MILC not FF, but "only" M5 II, same new 28MP crop sensor, EF-M mount, chunkier grip + body, LP-E6N battery, 4k 30p, less cropped than in M50 ?

btw. Thom Hogan has now also realized there is significant demand (not only me) for "small, yet fully functional" gear, even if it does not deliver "ultimate IQ" but only "good enough"
http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/downsizers.html

 

[Aussie shooter]

Wow. 5 pages of whinging about battery indicators the NOBODY CARES ABOUT instead of discussing the actual topic. Some people have no life.
On topic though. Damn I am keen to see what these cameras are. Currently use a 7d2 and if I get a stop or more improvement in high iso IQ in a 7d3 I will be more than happy to see it come early. And I am keen to see what canon produces in its FF mirrorless. Probably not in the markey yet but you never know. I kind of hope it is not another rebel though. Too many cameras at the bottom end I reckon

 

[mb66energy]

Re: New Canon Camera Bodies Appear for Certification

[...]

Your replies are interesting and informative, but they fall on deaf ears. You're talking to someone who has no interest whatsoever in how things work, and the moment something is explained, they resort to insults and obfuscation.

In this case I wanted to leave some arguments in written form for others as some counterbalance to arguments and statements of others. This is the great thing about well documented conversations in forums ...
In a direct bilateral conversation I left the field much earlier

So thank you for your positive remark! That's what keeps me posting my 2 ct at canonrumors!

 

[Kit.]

This thread illustrates that some people will argue over the most ridiculous stuff. It’s a battery level indicator. Who cares?

i do. Only Canapologists would not.

So, this "Canapoligist" is only a meaningless label for people that don't agree with you?

 

[littleB]

Wow. 5 pages of whinging about battery indicators the NOBODY CARES ABOUT instead of discussing the actual topic. Some people have no life.

This battery indicator was the last thing stopping some talented and very insistently creative person from creating photographic masterpieces. Even the lack of the 'materpiece' button does not bother some guys as much as digital battery gauge.
And it does not matter that this is discussion about NEW CAMERAS.