Possibility of EOS M Announcement at CP+? [CR1]

[sunnyVan]

Mature products like 5D and xxD series get refreshed every few years. The M gets an update almost every year. By Canon standard, they are already being relatively responsive to market need. Canon moves very slowly compared to Sony and Fuji. Should anyone be surprised that an elephant moves slower than a cat? Not defending Canon. It's just a fact that an established company moves cautiously.

The main and the only attraction of the M system is the compatibility with Canon lenses and flashes. If this means a great deal to you, then the M is a great secondary/backup system. If anyone is willing to make huge investment, Fuji is far more desirable than Sony, just for the quality of lenses alone, not to mention ergonomics and look.

 

[rrcphoto]

Mature products like 5D and xxD series get refreshed every few years. The M gets an update almost every year. By Canon standard, they are already being relatively responsive to market need. Canon moves very slowly compared to Sony and Fuji. Should anyone be surprised that an elephant moves slower than a cat? Not defending Canon. It's just a fact that an established company moves cautiously.

People also tend to forget just how many camera lines canon has - there's a finite amount you can do in a limited time across such a breadth.

canon has the 1 series, 5, 6, 7, xxD, 2 rebels, SLx, M

each with it's own characteristics and development curve.

Fuji has what? Sony has basically abandons anything that isn't it's latest shiny toy.

To expect canon to move as perceived quickly as another company that is simply focusing on a niche market is pretty difficult.

there's only so many resources you can throw at a problem.

 

[drob]

A refresh rate of every 4 to 5 years is to long to wait to be competitive in an ever changing market.

 

[AvTvM]

well, if one starts with a SUPERIOR product they can wait, until competition starts to catch up. Apparently that is what Sony has been able to do - rumor has it, that they delayed the A6000 update twice already during 2015 ... "for lack of competition". But now it seems to be coming. Sony Alpharumors quotes "availability in markets in March 2016".

Canon however started their mirrorless system with the EOS M, a product INFERIOR to competition and priced higher than most competitive products. We know the outcome: fire sale. After that Canon brought annual updates M2, M3 - each time still shy of the goal by quite a bit. Still inferior in many key aspects. Sensor/IQ, AF speed and tracking capability, lack of (built-in) viewfinder, or Powershot user interface instead of an EOS one. To date, Canon has not offered one truly competitive M body ... yet.

Canon did offer what i consider a very smart and attractive range of EF-M lenses however. Small, light, inexpensive and optically anywhere from "good to excellent". Only 4 lenses needed to cover 11mm to 200mm. Only a compact, moderately fast short/portrait tele lens is missing. Any longer focal lengths or big aperture or otherwise specialized lenses would be so big, that one can as well use available EF/EF-S lenses via adapter.

Fuji X-lenses on the other hand are as retro-styled fashion items and more importantly: almost as big, heavy and expensive as Canon FF lenses. Just look at that new Fuji 100-400/4.5-5.6 godzilla lens: despite covering APS-C image circle only it manages to be LONGER than the Canon EF 100-400 II, not much lighter and nearly as expensive! Totally ridiculous.

Sony lenses are either expensive and optically not very good, or come with a Zeiss label, making them optically a bit better but extremely expensive. Actually, if it were not for that haphazard lens Sony E-mount offering, I would have gotten myself an A6000 already.

Samsung failed in pricing, marketing and as a company - not necessarily at the product level.

The rest is "no-go zone" a.k.a "m43 land", populated by a huge mess of lenses from all sorts of makers and either video folks (Panasonic) or a few stills shooters far and between, who are willing to pay high prices for quarter-format sensors and lenses (Olympus).

 

[rrcphoto]

I wonder if people are just look at what THEY want and not really looking at this from a Canon perspective.

the US market is still a dumb market to be going full bore into. Seriously. the Asian market seems to be picking up steam... SOMEONE shipped one crapton of mirrorless into Asia in November. it will be interesting to see if that was just a blip.

The domestic market for mirrorless is dominated by the small, compact and usually discounted or cheap cameras under 100,000 yen (around 850 USD).

it stands to reason that even if canon makes a "nicer" "prosumer" camera that it's going to be south of $1,000.

it's NOT going to have 4K, it's not going to be a A6100 competitor because the A6xxx series doesn't really sell in Japan, nor does the A7 series.

it's going to be small, hopefully the powershot people get their act together. it's not going to be a world beater, because it doesn't have to in this market.

as much as camera store TV likes to cry about cameras, it's almost a curse any innovative mirrorless doesn't sell worth crap.

top selling MILC in japan in December? the M2 the M3 was #6. The M3 was #2 in November, with the M2 around #5.

surrounding the EOS-M's in Japan is the E-PL6 and the GF7 cameras.

the A6000 hardly breaks into the top 5 in a month.

November 2015:
1 E-PL6
2 EOS-M3
3 GF-7
4 E-PL7
5 EOS-M2
6 J5
7 A6000
8 EOS-M3
9 GF-7
10 E-OM10

December 2015:
1. EOS-M2
2. E-PL6
3. Nikon J5
4. EOS-M2
5. E-PL6
6. EOS-M3
7. E-PL7
8. A6000
9. A6000
10. Nikon J5

before someone cries and says but the M2 is on firesale - well guess what? so's just about everyone on the top 5 list.

 

[AvTvM]

if this were true - only small, cheap MILCS sell well in Japan - then I'd expect to see the CHEAP and SMALL Canon EOS M10 on top or very near the of these charts. Since it is not even in the top 10 ... i seriously doubt these lists.

 

[AvTvM]

Existing Canon EF-M optics are very nice, minus the lack of native portrait optics, which pains me every time I have to use my EF to EF-M adapter as it adds weight and bulk which defeat the purpose of the M.

A compact "pancake" EF-M 85/2.4 IS STM with IQ like the 22/2.0 and similary inexpensive EF-M pricing would be great. Until Canon makes it, I am using EF 50/1.8 STM with adapter. Still fairly light and not too bulky.

 

[crashpc]

Can live with original M for two more years. I hope they do something with it. Especially focusing speed and sensor. Cash waiting, and there will be no purchase untill they solve this.

 

[rrcphoto]

if this were true - only small, cheap MILCS sell well in Japan - then I'd expect to see the CHEAP and SMALL Canon EOS M10 on top or very near the of these charts. Since it is not even in the top 10 ... i seriously doubt these lists.

in actual fact canon doesn't seem to be promoting the M10 much in Japan yet. and with the M2 selling and competing against the E-PL6, it doesn't need to yet.

however it's nice that you doubt these lists, I'm sure your massive expertise and also your data collection is far superior than bcn's who track around 50% of all sales in japan.

 

[Random Orbits]

A compact "pancake" EF-M 85/2.4 IS STM with IQ like the 22/2.0 and similary inexpensive EF-M pricing would be great. Until Canon makes it, I am using EF 50/1.8 STM with adapter. Still fairly light and not too bulky.
[/quote]

Might be a tall stack.

 

[AvTvM]

if this were true - only small, cheap MILCS sell well in Japan - then I'd expect to see the CHEAP and SMALL Canon EOS M10 on top or very near the of these charts. Since it is not even in the top 10 ... i seriously doubt these lists.

in actual fact canon doesn't seem to be promoting the M10 much in Japan yet. and with the M2 selling and competing against the E-PL6, it doesn't need to yet.

however it's nice that you doubt these lists, I'm sure your massive expertise and also your data collection is far superior than bcn's who track around 50% of all sales in japan.

sorry, no insult intended. But tracking only about 50% of sales does not convince me to put more trust into the data. Also, what do the many double entries in the lists mean? Body only vs. with kit or what? If so, it should be clearly indicated. So again, to me this looks a bit shoddy.

 

[jebrady03]

if this were true - only small, cheap MILCS sell well in Japan - then I'd expect to see the CHEAP and SMALL Canon EOS M10 on top or very near the of these charts. Since it is not even in the top 10 ... i seriously doubt these lists.

in actual fact canon doesn't seem to be promoting the M10 much in Japan yet. and with the M2 selling and competing against the E-PL6, it doesn't need to yet.

however it's nice that you doubt these lists, I'm sure your massive expertise and also your data collection is far superior than bcn's who track around 50% of all sales in japan.

sorry, no insult intended. But tracking only about 50% of sales does not convince me to put more trust into the data. Also, what do the many double entries in the lists mean? Body only vs. with kit or what? If so, it should be clearly indicated. So again, to me this looks a bit shoddy.

Looks better than the data you provided. :-/

 

[Ryan_]

Assuming a late February announcement, how soon could this get released?

 

[ahsanford]

I fall for it every time.

- A

 

[dppaskewitz]

I fall for it every time.

- A

+1 (And this is what I was trying to say).

The M3 is close: add an integral electronic viewfinder (no more fiddling with the separate one), a decent menu system (does it really need to revert from remote mode when I take it off the tripod and turn in off to save battery?? and can we get back magnified focusing from the M?) and a back button focus that I can find with my thumb and I'm there.

 

[ahsanford]

I fall for it every time.

- A

+1 (And this is what I was trying to say).

The M3 is close: add an integral electronic viewfinder (no more fiddling with the separate one), a decent menu system (does it really need to revert from remote mode when I take it off the tripod and turn in off to save battery?? and can we get back magnified focusing from the M?) and a back button focus that I can find with my thumb and I'm there.

...and a few native EF-M lenses with USM, please.

If you only shoot stills, there is nothing 'prosumer' about STM.

- A

 

[WillT]

if this were true - only small, cheap MILCS sell well in Japan - then I'd expect to see the CHEAP and SMALL Canon EOS M10 on top or very near the of these charts. Since it is not even in the top 10 ... i seriously doubt these lists.

in actual fact canon doesn't seem to be promoting the M10 much in Japan yet. and with the M2 selling and competing against the E-PL6, it doesn't need to yet.

however it's nice that you doubt these lists, I'm sure your massive expertise and also your data collection is far superior than bcn's who track around 50% of all sales in japan.

How do you guys come up with this? Canon is losing money. And Japan is such a small portion of it sales company wide and in their imaging business. They are counting on US and Euro markets for strong earnings not Japan

 

[tcmatthews]

I am sending my EOS M and Nex6 in to Amazon as trade in. I will miss the 22mm STM but I think I will just get m4/3 camera for a carry around camera. If I want more compact and I do m4/3 is a better option. If I want to stay APS-C I will just get an A6100 (or whatever it is) because I already have the lenses. Or jump ship to Fujifilm.

I do not think I will find what I want in any of the Canon mirrorless and I think I will just stick to the full frame lenses for Sony for now on.

The M3 was close but it is a moving target. I doubt they will ever get there. I am waiting for the Pen F and a new Sony before making any decisions.

But as for the EOS M line I am out.

 

[rrcphoto]

if this were true - only small, cheap MILCS sell well in Japan - then I'd expect to see the CHEAP and SMALL Canon EOS M10 on top or very near the of these charts. Since it is not even in the top 10 ... i seriously doubt these lists.

in actual fact canon doesn't seem to be promoting the M10 much in Japan yet. and with the M2 selling and competing against the E-PL6, it doesn't need to yet.

however it's nice that you doubt these lists, I'm sure your massive expertise and also your data collection is far superior than bcn's who track around 50% of all sales in japan.

sorry, no insult intended. But tracking only about 50% of sales does not convince me to put more trust into the data. Also, what do the many double entries in the lists mean? Body only vs. with kit or what? If so, it should be clearly indicated. So again, to me this looks a bit shoddy.

are you kidding me? 50% of data surveyed is statistically very very accurate.


different kits and at times, colors depending on the camera.

I really didn't think it was necessary for me to translate each line item just to satisfy your burning curiousity.

but you are welcome to do so here:

http://bcnranking.jp/category/subcategory_0008.html

the fact of the matter remains, there's no A7 series AT all in the top 10. heck hardly in the top 50 of Japan's selling.

Smaller cameras, and cheaper cameras are selling better than others.

there's a good probability that a A6100 killer that does everything for $1200 won't sell worth squat in Japan, therefore, I could hardly see Canon really considering it - at this time.

Considering just how many downfalls the current EOS-M system has including the lenses and eco system to really support a top tier camera model on this mount.

keep it for what it is good at - small and cheap and that includes the lenses.

 

[AvTvM]

How do you guys come up with this? Canon is losing money.

no. up to now, Canon is profitable. Neuro will fill you in on the details, if you want. ;D

And Japan is such a small portion of it sales company wide and in their imaging business. They are counting on US and Euro markets for strong earnings not Japan.

I sure hope, they do. Especially in Europe sub-par mirrorless cameras do not sell well. While we don't think "bigger is always better", we do love "more refined" and higly functional products.