Rumoured Canon EOS Rs Specifications [CR1]

[keithcooper]

Why should anybody else do that if you don't?

I don't take anybody seriously who doesn't post before and after images to illustrate their points when they make assertions about the differences they get with specific cameras, lenses, software etc.

Likewise - a friend turned up with a 5Ds R and TS-E50 wondering if there was really much difference for the sorts of work we did (architecture/commercial)

We went outside, took some identical shots and realised that Canon had done a splendid marketing job on quite a few 5Ds R purchasers and I'd saved ~£300

Sure, there were some small differences visible in some areas if you looked carefully, but probably more visible to those who thought there should be differences and went looking for them ;-) So yes, I did a bit of a write-up of it, and moved on with happily using the camera.

What was personally much more interesting was when I did a print based comparison test between my 1Ds/1Ds3/5Ds with each image produced at a range of sizes. This was before tools such as AI Gigapixel came out that I might choose for lower MP images. If anything, such software would make differences even less obvious. The reactions of 'real people' looking at the prints reminded me that much of the technical minutiae that agitate some photographers are utterly irrelevant to the people I create photos for.

This AA storm in a teacup reminds me of a warning I give when doing talks about colour management - that is to tread carefully if you are someone who paints behind their radiators. Radiators? I'm of the school that isn't bothered if you can't see it - If you'e of the school that finds that disconcerting, then be mindful of paying large amounts of attention to stuff that no-one else will see and still less be concerned with...

 

[sanj]

Likewise - a friend turned up with a 5Ds R and TS-E50 wondering if there was really much difference for the sorts of work we did (architecture/commercial)

We went outside, took some identical shots and realised that Canon had done a splendid marketing job on quite a few 5Ds R purchasers and I'd saved ~£300

Sure, there were some small differences visible in some areas if you looked carefully, but probably more visible to those who thought there should be differences and went looking for them ;-) So yes, I did a bit of a write-up of it, and moved on with happily using the camera.

What was personally much more interesting was when I did a print based comparison test between my 1Ds/1Ds3/5Ds with each image produced at a range of sizes. This was before tools such as AI Gigapixel came out that I might choose for lower MP images. If anything, such software would make differences even less obvious. The reactions of 'real people' looking at the prints reminded me that much of the technical minutiae that agitate some photographers are utterly irrelevant to the people I create photos for.

This AA storm in a teacup reminds me of a warning I give when doing talks about colour management - that is to tread carefully if you are someone who paints behind their radiators. Radiators? I'm of the school that isn't bothered if you can't see it - If you'e of the school that finds that disconcerting, then be mindful of paying large amounts of attention to stuff that no-one else will see and still less be concerned with...

Agree. However, there are many photos that I create for myself as well. Am everything is very obvious and important to me.

 

[dtaylor]

Why should anybody else do that if you don't?

I did post a comparison image. The RAWs are available at Imaging Resource.

 

[dtaylor]

You lose a lot of resolution between say f/4 and f/8

No you don't. Try comparing f/4 and f/8 on a few good primes at TDP. On some lenses, with your nose to the screen, there's the slightest difference in sharpness. If such a small difference can wipe out the claimed 5DsR advantage, then that advantage is not "big" or "a lot" by any rational definition of those words.

You need to go down to f/4 or wider lenses to get the benefit of the R or see the difference. At f/8, there is indeed little benefit having the 5DSR over the 5DS. I am keeping my 400mm DO II f/4 for use with high resolution sensors.

Bad example. Judging from this you will see no difference at f/4:

Canon EF 400mm f/4 DO IS II USM Lens Image Quality

View the image quality delivered by the Canon EF 400mm f/4 DO IS II USM Lens using ISO 12233 Resolution Chart lab test results. Compare the image quality of this lens with other lenses.

www.the-digital-picture.com

 

[privatebydesign]

I did post a comparison image. The RAWs are available at Imaging Resource.

Where?

Some deer - M6 Mk II

Neither would. I will, just not right now, for the reason I explained.

www.canonrumors.com

 

[AlanF]

No you don't. Try comparing f/4 and f/8 on a few good primes at TDP. On some lenses, with your nose to the screen, there's the slightest difference in sharpness. If such a small difference can wipe out the claimed 5DsR advantage, then that advantage is not "big" or "a lot" by any rational definition of those words.



Bad example. Judging from this you will see no difference at f/4:

Canon EF 400mm f/4 DO IS II USM Lens Image Quality

View the image quality delivered by the Canon EF 400mm f/4 DO IS II USM Lens using ISO 12233 Resolution Chart lab test results. Compare the image quality of this lens with other lenses.

www.the-digital-picture.com

The laws of physics and diffraction are quite clear that you lose resolution as you go from wider to narrower aperture . Your eye balling shots from TDP doesn't get around those laws, and the author of TDP disagrees with your conclusions about his images and concludes that the 5DSR picks up detail lost by the 5DS. This is what he writes about the 5DSR vs the 5DS on his site that you quote https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-5Ds-R.aspx:

"The Difference in Sharpness
How big is the difference in sharpness? Sharpness is the 5Ds R's biggest advantage, so this a key question to ask. The difference is noticeable, but seeing the difference with your own eyes is the easiest way to answer that question.

My first suggestion is to review the resolution chart test results comparison between these two cameras. The difference seen here is only slight.

I'm finding the real world differences to vary modestly, but the difference in fine details is generally very noticeable.."

In the bottom right example links, we see that increasing the 5Ds results to a setting of "2" produces sharpness similar to the 5Ds R at "1" and the 5Ds R images at "0" resemble the 5Ds image at "1". But, the 5Ds cannot make detail from what doesn't exist in the RAW data. For example, look at the vinyl siding on the press box in the 5Ds S=2 result and compare it to the base 5Ds R result. The lines in the siding remain clear even in the 5Ds R S=0 image, but the 5Ds does not clearly delineate these lines even at S=2. That data does not exist in the 5Ds RAW file.

The clear takeaway is that the 5Ds R delivers a noticeably sharper image and captures more detail"

Opticallimits does a careful analysis under controlled and reproducible conditions and charts the numbers and clearly shows the change in MTF values, which are consistent with theory.

 

[cayenne]

I suspect you haven't seen Keith's website? I don't know anybody who has done larger printing for close viewing and his articles on tilt shift lens use really should be compulsory reading for anybody that eve thinks a T/S lens might be in their bag.

Keith's website?
Not familiar with that, but would like to look at it if you could post a link please?

I've been contemplating a T/S lens in the near future to play with....

TIA,

cayenne

 

[AlanF]

Keith's website?
Not familiar with that, but would like to look at it if you could post a link please?

I've been contemplating a T/S lens in the near future to play with....

TIA,

cayenne

It's http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/
He is a highly respected expert and makes occasional welcome contributions here.

 

[cayenne]

It's http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/
He is a highly respected expert and makes occasional welcome contributions here.

Thank you VERY much, I'll take a look!!

C

 

[SteveC]

You trust me too much - it would be at 100 yards with you a Colt 45 and me a Winchester.

Wrong kind of shooting, folks!

 

[keithcooper]

Thank you VERY much, I'll take a look!!

C

Hope you find it useful

The shortcut to all articles/reviews related to tilt/shift matters is:

Tilt / Shift Archives - Northlight Images

Tilt / Shift lens information, tutorials, articles and reviews linked to camera movements and perspective control

www.northlight-images.co.uk

 

[Sporgon]

We went outside, took some identical shots and realised that Canon had done a splendid marketing job on quite a few 5Ds R purchasers and I'd saved ~£300

Didn't work on me Keith either ! I did a comparison on the two cameras and came to the same conclusion.

If you compare the two RAW files with no sharpening applied to either, then yes the SR has a little more contrast and is sharper. Add a little judiciuos USM and the difference, to all intents and purposes, has gone.

Even at f/4

In fact I must dig out my comparison files and have a little competition on CR to see if anyone can guess which is which.

 

[Kit.]

Looks like for my typical aperture values the lens itself will work as an AA filter for a 75 Mpix FF sensor. So, if there are two versions of the camera, one with AA and one without, I should just get the cheaper one.

 

[Quarkcharmed]

If you compare the two RAW files with no sharpening applied to either, then yes the SR has a little more contrast and is sharper. Add a little judiciuos USM and the difference, to all intents and purposes, has gone.

But it's a confirmation there IS a difference. Maybe small, but measured by the amount of sharpening you have to apply to the 5Ds images to make them even with the 5DSr images.

You run 100m distance faster than me, but if I start one second earlier, for all intents and purposes we arrive at the same time. So we're basically running at the same speed, only that I always need a handicap, but who cares, right? We sweep it all under the carpet.

 

[mpb001]

I think if Canon does not include IBIS in this model that it will put Canon is a bad spot, since Nikon and Sony have implemented it in their models. It would likely set Canon back another year in terms of this technology, which is becoming a standard feature across camera brands.

 

[djack41]

It really depends on what price range this comes in at. If it comes in under 4k I'm not sure if there will be a direct 5dIV replacement.

If it is EOS-R like speeds, it might mean 8-10 fps. However that doesn't have to mean it's 3 fps slower when tracking like the R (and RP are). The 90d/M6II are just as fast while tracking, and the previous versions slowed significantly when turning options on to maximize tracking. The previous 5dIV was released with an MSRP of 3499 and the 5ds/r was a few hundred more. Since the Sony AIVr is 3499, I'd expect the new camera to come in within a few hundred of that.

If it can hit 9 FPS but experience no significant sped loss while tracking it will match up extrememly well with Sony's new camera. And with small and medium RAW modes those with concern about file sizes can be happy.

Agreed. FR and buffer size is important for me. The EOS-R is too slow. The new CFexpress cards are reported to be twice as fast as CFAST. Also, Canon is adopting HEIF which supposedly has 4X the info of a JPEG and half the size of RAW. There is hope.

 

[Aussie shooter]

I think a lot of you are forgetting that Alan is a wildlife photographer and therefore crops his images far more than say a landscape or arcitechture photographer would. So any differences are going to be far more noticeable in those circumstances whereas you could get away with it easier without the cropping

 

[Sporgon]

But it's a confirmation there IS a difference. Maybe small, but measured by the amount of sharpening you have to apply to the 5Ds images to make them even with the 5DSr images.

You run 100m distance faster than me, but if I start one second earlier, for all intents and purposes we arrive at the same time. So we're basically running at the same speed, only that I always need a handicap, but who cares, right? We sweep it all under the carpet.

The problem is that we often see what we want or expect to see.

For instance I can definitely see the difference in my images shot on the 135L when compared with my similar images shot on other, ostensibly lesser quality lenses, just as long as I know which ones were shot on the 135L

 

[Kit.]

But it's a confirmation there IS a difference.

If there were no difference at all, it would mean that the AA filter was useless.

You run 100m distance faster than me, but if I start one second earlier, for all intents and purposes we arrive at the same time. So we're basically running at the same speed, only that I always need a handicap, but who cares, right? We sweep it all under the carpet.

As long as you are not trying to win the Olympics but are delivering pizza, finishing at the right door is more important than being able to start later.

 

[-pekr-]

"75mp full-frame CMOS Sensor focused on the dynamic range” - an oxymoron? 30mp sensor would be even more focused on dynamic range