Canon officially announces the Canon EOS R system

[Talys]

That's a beast of a camera once the 50mm lens is attach, a smaller form factor all round would have been preferred and some onboard IBIS would have made me jump NOW, will hold off and see how this pans out once people start using it and we get to read their thoughts, see their images plus find out how this camera performs in the field ref DR, low light, focusing etc etc...

Image found here: https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/9/5/17822556/canon-eos-r-camera-hands-on-preview-photos

I'm the opposite. I would not be interested in it at all if it were smaller than it is; one of my main complaints of the A7 is that it's just too small for the lenses I want to mount, like 70-200/2.8 and 100-400, so much so vertically that I can't really use it without a grip, which basically takes away any size savings and leaves kind of odd proportions to the camera body. Also, shrinking the body would mean losing that top display, which I really, really like.

 

[amorse]

I suspect that the majority of those that buy cameras do not purchase them depending on who's screaming the loudest on Youtube! lol

I often read comments in purchase reviews and also rely on hands on reviews like Dustin Abbott's. (or just simply use common sense)

I bought the 6D2 a month or so after it was released regardless of all the negative Youtube and forum screaming about it and am 110% satisfied with my purchase. I actually had the money for the 5D4 but got the 6D2 instead simply because of the flip screen. I love the camera and use it almost daily.

I feel this EOS R camera is another sleeper and versitile camera but the lens pricing scares me off. If I was seriously considering buying it, it would be body only and I'd just get an adapter and use my current lenses.

The EOS R will likely soon be considered the best FF Vlogging camera, especially for the Youtube. That forward facing screen will likely be the best selling point on this camera IMO. many will scoop it up for that reason only.....

Certainly not the majority, but some do! Many of those vloggers have affiliate links in their videos, so they make money off of clicks there too - I'd be really curious to see how much conversion they're actually creating. I would bet the majority of camera buyers make the decision in the camera store, and I am betting that's why the EOS R's class-leading features are targeted toward the things you notice in a store - i.e. EVF sharpness and response time, flipping screen, great ergonomics, etc.

I think you're right about the 6D II - several vloggers have come out and said the 6D II is the best vlogging camera on the market in hind sight. It comes down to full frame + reversible screen - there is no other camera on the market that has both of those features, until the EOS R that is! I am betting the EOS R ends up being a huge vlogging hit despite its shortcomings.

I was between the 6DII and the 5D IV last summer, but I went with the 5D IV. For all the flak the camera has received, I have a hard time picturing me using anything else. For me, the decision fell to DR, resolution, and durability. In all fairness, I was very close to going for the 6D II.

I'm interested in the EOS R for stills as a secondary camera to the 5D IV, but my big hesitation is what's coming next and where Canon goes from here. For instance, the R would be a great backup to my current kit (since I only have the one body now), but if Canon releases a mirrorless 5Dsr equivalent next, I may rather see the new camera act as a primary, and the 5D IV the backup. My biggest hesitation with the EOS R right now is battery life on the LP-E6N and weather sealing, especially with adapters. I shoot mostly landscapes while camping, so I need those batteries to last and I need the camera to be reliable in rain. For that, I'm waiting for the hands on reviews. Dustin is great though, I always appreciate his thoroughness.

 

[nchoh]

Excuse if it has been reported previewsly. I didn't read all!

On the white paper documentation p.30 we can read about mount adapter EF-EOS R:

"Direct mechanical and electrical coupling between the EF lens and any the new EOS R camera and any future EOS R cameras"

So, I understand that the high end future body will not have an EF native mount !!!!!

Don't worry. I never decide lightly on any potential costly decision - re. (1) this doesn't seem to be a major limitation given Sony claim 5.5 stop using IBIS - and re. (2) they do have a 12-24mm F4 zoom and 3. parties offer 10mm (though F5.6). So maybe difficult but not impossible it seems.

Anyway - thanks for your thoughts!

Actually, even though (1) talks about IBIS, it is actually really about space available for the lens is reduced due to IBIS. In short, both (1) and (2) implies that Sony will have challenges going forward when trying to develop lighter, higher quality lenses.

 

[dtaylor]

Video will always be a secondary and suboptimal function on a primarily stills camera.

How can you look at the A7 III or just announced XT3 and say that with a straight face?

Do you know how many Canon wedding photographers would be adding an R to their kit if the R had video features similar to the A7 III? Canon wouldn't be able to make enough of them.

 

[dtaylor]

If you want serious video then get the Canon C700.
This is a still camera with some video features for boring home movies that all but you find painfully boring.
Those truly interested in video productions have no interest in these hybrid cameras.
This is a still camera with video capabilities.
I get so bored with the drivel from those who complain about still camera video. Same with ibis as optical is far superior and way more so with WA lenses.

The market quite clearly says otherwise. And the C700 costs more than a lot of cars.

Also: if we are to ignore video features because this is a stills camera, then what does it offer over a 5Dsr or 5D4, both of which can be bought gray market for nearly the same price? What does it even offer over the 6D2?

 

[Mikehit]

How can you look at the A7 III or just announced XT3 and say that with a straight face?

For the last 5 years, sales of cameras without FF video have whupped those with it. Go figure.

Do you know how many Canon wedding photographers would be adding an R to their kit if the R had video features similar to the A7 III?

No - do you?
My guess is it would follow the historical trend with 1080p being good enough for most of them.

 

[kaptainkatsu]

Honestly the 4k crop isn't a huge deal. It just crops to Super35, which most cine cameras shoot anyway.

 

[padam]

Honestly the 4k crop isn't a huge deal. It just crops to Super35, which most cine cameras shoot anyway.

Unfortunately not quite because that is 1.5x(slightly wider than Canon's APS-C size), it is more like 1.8x, so a pretty big difference. A 1DX II at 1.4x is just much better, but it's huge, heavy, uses expensive cards and batteries and has features that most people simply don't need and of course it will never get C-Log (and yet they still buy it for video, because it is still great).


But anyways, here is a short promotional video by Devin Graham:

If anyone is interested, the lenses seen in the BTS video were:
EF 11-24/4
EF 16-35/2.8 III
RF 24-105/4
RF 28-70/2 (this was his favourite)

 

[-pekr-]

Am I alone thinking, that Canon overdone it with the buttons, modes, etc.? Looking at some videos it seems like you need 3 hands and 2 brains to remember all the possible combinations and nested modes

 

[JustForFun]

I took out time to watch all of Canon's videos and read the white paper. The video relating to the electronic viewfinder and automatic focus cast some light on the limitations of the use of EF lenses on the RF mount. I had to watch a portion of the video about three times over to make sure I was clear in my understanding that some of the functionality of the electronic viewfinder and automatic focus will be limited to RF lenses only.

Also, I sent an e-mail to Canon, and here is their direct quote: "You are correct. There are some features of the EOS R that will only be available with the RF lenses, such as the lens distance scale and control ring rotation. Since these products were just announced resources for them are limited. The videos and EOS R system whitepaper (HERE) are the most current information we have on the equipment. As we get closer to the release date more information will become available."

I am sure that even using their adapters, some specialized functions that will be available using RF lenses will not be available for EF and EF-S lenses.

 

[justaCanonuser]

In all likelihood not possible. RF are for 54mm throat width, Sony E-mount is too narrow, especially with only 2mm FFD difference.

I agree. Pretty sure that Canon carefully considered how they force those who want such a lens have to buy an EOS R body.

 

[justaCanonuser]

+1

I don't do video really, but if I did, it'd be mostly birds, and the crop factor works in our favour here. Given there are ways around it for the wide stuff (I know it's not ideal, but there are FF lenses going to what? 8mm? And in this case with EF-S lenses wider options aren't *too* expensive), I find the wailing and gnashing of teeth a bit much - but I accept I'm in a minority here.

Add me to your minority report

 

[justaCanonuser]

Not with a mount as narrow as Sony's.

Even if the flange distance difference were enough to accept bayonet tabs and electrical contacts (which it isn't), the mount throat by itself could cause vignetting with RF lenses.

I agree.

 

[fullstop]

I agree. Pretty sure that Canon carefully considered how they force those who want such a lens have to buy an EOS R body.

I don't think this was at the forefront of Canon's decision. More likely a "welcome side effect". Canon simply chose R mount parameters they consider optimal for their EOS R FF mirrorless system for the next 20+ years and which allow for good backwards compatibility with existing EF lenses. They know that only a tiny fraction of their customers would ever go and adapt Sony or Nikon lenses via cross-platform adapters, even if it is/were technically feasible.

 

[ChristopherMarkPerez]

Which means that even at their first mirrorless product introduction Canon was 6 years behind.

Of course I could get even farther afield and point out that the Epson RD-1 and Leica digital mirrorless cameras were introduced over 14 years earlier (in 2004) where Panasonic's mirrorless G1 came in 2008.

I can't help but feel a lot has changed in terms of customer expectations for imaging in the 10 years since the Panasonic G1. How we consume images is very rapidly evolving. But it matters little, I suspect. Canon will sell what it can and that will be that.

The EOS M was introduced in 2012, so actually only 4 years!

 

[scyrene]

At the end of the day some brands are more concerned about profit and not giving us the best but most reasonable offering possible and it wont change as long as people defend business for being business.

Nope. ALL brands (in tech at least) are equally concerned with profit. They take different strategic approaches, but the goal is the same. Sony doesn't pack loads of new features in their cameras out of a sense of charity towards their customers, they do it because they think it's the most effective way of getting more customers. Canon takes a different approach. You're letting your judgment be clouded by your personal annoyance that one brand doesn't give you precisely what you want. A lot of people do, but let's not pretend it's business insight.

 

[Mikehit]

Am I alone thinking, that Canon overdone it with the buttons, modes, etc.? Looking at some videos it seems like you need 3 hands and 2 brains to remember all the possible combinations and nested modes

Unfortunately, if mirrorless = smaller as most people imagine and want, then that means less real estate for buttons and dials. And the smaller the button the more squidgy and harder hit right especially with gloves on. So that means a reliance on menus and multi-function buttons.
Of the mirrorless, I like Fuji (not shot with one but it is the look of them) and Pana (which I do use) but even Pana has issues with the firmness of the button push.

 

[Mikehit]

Nope. ALL brands (in tech at least) are equally concerned with profit. They take different strategic approaches, but the goal is the same. Sony doesn't pack loads of new features in their cameras out of a sense of charity towards their customers, they do it because they think it's the most effective way of getting more customers. Canon takes a different approach. You're letting your judgment be clouded by your personal annoyance that one brand doesn't give you precisely what you want. A lot of people do, but let's not pretend it's business insight.

And comments like Ray's (and he is far from alone) are based on the assumptions that (a) the only research and development that matters is that which appears on the spec sheet and (b) the company is holding back a shedload of market-leading technology for no other reason than to protect sales of a 3-year-old line of video cameras.

 

[Aaron D]

OK aside from how this works as a camera, it's got to be said: that bump on top is the most poorly sculpted of all the mirrorless bodies. I know I know I know it doesn't matter—it's a camera and a tool. But look at the M5 or even the G1 X iii. Visually there is some micro encephalitis going on here.

 

[padam]

Two more videos with more interesting details: