Canon EOS M200 coming soon

SteveC

M50 & T6i
Sep 3, 2019
294
165
Maybe, but it would only make sense if that crop mode enables faster shooting. Otherwise I'd be pointless.
I agree--that would have to be part of it. Less data to pull off the sensor should equal a faster frame rate, presumably very close to the M6 II's. So a slow(er) full frame could also be a fairly fast APS-C. (I don't know how current crop modes work. Do they imply a higher fps as things are currently designed, or would this be a new way for Canon engineers to think about those things, because cropping happens in the RAW file, not the electronics?)

The point has been made that this would end up being a $4000 camera, and that doesn't seem like a ridiculous number for what it actually is. On the other hand, if it's basically what I'll call an R6--it could be fairly slow in full frame mode so long as it speeds up for crop mode, and maybe that can make it less expensive.
 

Quarkcharmed

EOS 5DMkIV
Feb 14, 2018
492
321
Australia
www.michaelborisenko.com
It isn't important or relevant to be typical, it is important and relevant to realize your wishes, desires and needs in a camera are not typical of the general camera buying population, and Canon are more interested in the later than you personally.
Right, it's a hard mission to teach people to control their wishes, desires and needs. Good luck, Sisyphean job is easy to get but not easy to finish.
 

SteveC

M50 & T6i
Sep 3, 2019
294
165
This means saying things like 'I need uncropped 4k', 'I need 24p', 'I need 15 stops of DR' and then following on with, 'if the next Canon doesn't have 'X' feature they are doomed/DOA/I'm jumping ship/I'll get a Sony' is an entirely illogical extension.
You've cited four possible endings for their if...then statement, and called them all illogical. I think, on the contrary, two of them ARE logical. If the next Canon doesn't have vital (to them) Feature 'X' they absolutely should jump ship/get a Sony. [Assuming Sony has the feature of course.] They're basically using that to extend to the other two...because I should jump ship, so should everyone else, and that's the stupid in their 'logic.'

EDIT TO ADD: All of this, of course, assumes these are real people with actual sincere wants, rather than just paid trolls who don't actually own a camera that doesn't also make phone calls.
 
Last edited:

Quarkcharmed

EOS 5DMkIV
Feb 14, 2018
492
321
Australia
www.michaelborisenko.com
I agree--that would have to be part of it. Less data to pull off the sensor should equal a faster frame rate, presumably very close to the M6 II's. So a slow(er) full frame could also be a fairly fast APS-C. (I don't know how current crop modes work. Do they imply a higher fps as things are currently designed, or would this be a new way for Canon engineers to think about those things, because cropping happens in the RAW file, not the electronics?)
I think if it's ever done, it'll be done at the readout time, not in the raw files. Similar to the 4k crop mode - they don't read the whole sensor in that case. So technically it's all feasible, the question is if Canon ever implements it and how much it will cost.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SteveC

SteveC

M50 & T6i
Sep 3, 2019
294
165
I'm only interested in Canon roadmap because I'm looking for an upgrade. Basically I'm looking into what's available now and what will be available in a few months. Otherwise I don't really care much about Canon profits, market share etc. Likewise I just skip or ignore "Canon is doomed" posts.
I find this entirely understandable. I want to upgrade. I'd like to upgrade to something specific that could (plausibly) come out in the next few months (an M5 II--assuming it comes with viewfinder and flippy screen). Failing that, I can take what is coming out in two weeks (M6 II). Since I don't know their intentions, I have to decide for how long to bide my time before giving up on the still-not-existent better model and buying the Plan B model. I'm essentially delaying a purchase. When I finally do decide to pull the trigger, though, I'll have this nasty suspicion in the back of my mind that once it's too late to return the product, Canon will announce the M5II. At which point I will kick myself, but I WON'T just go buy the M5 II unless I can get almost all my money back for the M6 II.

But my personal dilemma means nothing to Canon--unless enough other people are thinking exactly the same thing, in which case Canon could be delaying sales of the M6 II for no advantage (if they don't intend to release the M5) or sabotaging sales of the M5 II (if they do).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Quarkcharmed

Joules

EOS RP
Jul 16, 2017
277
183
Hamburg, Germany
So technically it's all feasible, the question is if Canon ever implements it and how much it will cost.
It is implemented in the M6 II, which can do 32.5 MP 14 FPS 14 bit shooting or use a cropped mode for a 18 MP 30 FPS 12 bit burst mode, if the specs I've read are correct. They should be, but we'll see in less than two weeks anyway.

Edit: An additional thing to note here is that using the burst mode, you'll give up on using a mechanical shutter. If the readout is so fast on the new sensor, that this is not a problem for action, we'll very likely see an equivalent crop mode in the high res R, I think (Going from more than 5.5 FPS at full res to more than 14 at a 32.5 MP crop - assuming it will have a larger throughout than the M6 II).

If electronic shutter only is an issue, this will probably just appear in a really expensive model with a shutter as capable as the one in the 1DX II or greater.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Quarkcharmed

ritholtz

EOS 7D MK II
Mar 25, 2014
576
9
Can we use removable evf with M200/M100. I want get something in smaller size to take with me always. I moved to 6d2 from 80d. It is over kill for my needs with very little time to spend on photography. Other option is to just get RP with adapter.
 
Last edited:

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,788
876
119
You've cited four possible endings for their if...then statement, and called them all illogical. I think, on the contrary, two of them ARE logical. If the next Canon doesn't have vital (to them) Feature 'X' they absolutely should jump ship/get a Sony. [Assuming Sony has the feature of course.] They're basically using that to extend to the other two...because I should jump ship, so should everyone else, and that's the stupid in their 'logic.'

EDIT TO ADD: All of this, of course, assumes these are real people with actual sincere wants, rather than just paid trolls who don't actually own a camera that doesn't also make phone calls.
yes you are entirely correct and I went too far in that suggestion. "I'm jumping ship/I'll get a Sony" are perfectly rational comments and not the same thing as saying 'Canon are doomed/DOA/failing/the next Kodak/etc etc.'

Of course experience here is that many more say they are going to jump ship than actually do, and many that don't say it actually do. Personally I think those that make the most noise are just the biggest blowhards and probably don't even have a camera other than in their phone.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,788
876
119
Right, it's a hard mission to teach people to control their wishes, desires and needs. Good luck, Sisyphean job is easy to get but not easy to finish.
Indeed were I to take on that task I would expect it to be an uphill struggle for eternity!

I like to think that if I was a long term Canon user and forum pundit and I needed functionality I couldn't get in a Canon camera I'd buy the camera that did have the feature, I'd use it and then post it here saying 'look this is what a **** can do, Canon lost my business because you can't do this with a Canon'. We used to have two posters here (Eldar and eml58) who both bought medium format digital initially just to try out but we lost them both fully to that medium format goodness, they both posted images from their new cameras pointing out where it whopped 135 formats butt and they moved on.

I use Canon because they have an 11-24 'full frame' rectilinear lens and a TS-E17, both with very high optical quality that no other manufacturer offers. Nothing they don't have comes close to those two things they do have for my personal uses.
 

mb66energy

EOS 6D MK II
Dec 18, 2011
1,268
180
Germany
www.MichaelBockhorst.de
I wonder how the eventual M50 successor is going to look like. Even though one step below the M6II on the product ladder, it may well end up being an extremely attractive camera if it inherits even half of the new goodies and retains the builtin EVF and the full tilty-flippy LCD.
Same here: The M50 won against M5 due to the better display (tilty-flippy) and the high speed movie modes (I use it for physics lessons where the students have to analyse motion, 100 fps is fast enough and easy: 10msec between frames). Builtin EVF is a must - for bright days, setting params easily and sometimes the review under bright conditions without removing my glasses.
 

Quarkcharmed

EOS 5DMkIV
Feb 14, 2018
492
321
Australia
www.michaelborisenko.com
I'm relatively flexible with my photo gear budget, but medium format is a bit too much for me. The cost of migration to Sony is roughly 2-3k AUD, migrating to the cheapest MF Fuji means 10k+ 'investment' and I'll get a limited choice of bulky lenses and will always be afraid to shoot seascapes. So in terms of an upgrade, I'm looking into what's on the market atm and I'm very interested in the prospective high-res R camera, but I don't really care whether Canon takes right or wrong decisions or whether it gains or loses its market share. Even less I care about someone else's whining about the Canon's roadmap. Although it's fun to read sometimes.
Also I don't feel I'm loyal to Canon despite using Canon gear for many years. If there's a better and proper option within my budget - I won't hesitate to migrate. Currently Sony 7RIV looks disappointing, so I'm probably stuck with my 5DIV for a while.

Indeed were I to take on that task I would expect it to be an uphill struggle for eternity!

I like to think that if I was a long term Canon user and forum pundit and I needed functionality I couldn't get in a Canon camera I'd buy the camera that did have the feature, I'd use it and then post it here saying 'look this is what a **** can do, Canon lost my business because you can't do this with a Canon'. We used to have two posters here (Eldar and eml58) who both bought medium format digital initially just to try out but we lost them both fully to that medium format goodness, they both posted images from their new cameras pointing out where it whopped 135 formats butt and they moved on.

I use Canon because they have an 11-24 'full frame' rectilinear lens and a TS-E17, both with very high optical quality that no other manufacturer offers. Nothing they don't have comes close to those two things they do have for my personal uses.
 

mb66energy

EOS 6D MK II
Dec 18, 2011
1,268
180
Germany
www.MichaelBockhorst.de
If this camera has the 32 MPix sensor and costs around 400 EUR it might be a great body for "not so often used" lenses staying in the bag for those rare situation. In my case it might be the 11-22mm lens.
Just to explain my idea: I would like to have three bodies for ultrawide (simple body), 50mm f/1.4 equiv or 100mm f/2 macro equiv + f/4 70-200mm(2 x good body) in a small backpack. Just changing cameras, not lenses :)
 

Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
1,260
681
I agree likely they aren't, yet there's a possibility that they are. Canon rumours guy once mentioned there's 30k subscribers or so, what makes you think they're definitely not typical?

And even if they aren't, then what? They cannot discuss the rumours and speculate about the cameras they want on the forum dedicated to rumours and speculations?
Yeah, they can, but in the thread dedicated to a m100 replacement it just looks silly.
 

Etienne

EOS 6D MK II
Sep 19, 2010
1,359
155
Ottawa Ontario
If image quality is next to nothing then you can be happy with your phone. Nobody is forcing you to buy it.
Oh puhleaassee.
That's nothing but a camera snob comment. I have the M original, M3 and M6, with the 11-22, the 22 f/2, and the 32 f/1.4. While they provide decent IQ, they are not head and shoulders above a top smart phone anymore. Maybe a few years ago that would have been true.
I have also owned each of the 5D series since the beginning, and you definitely do not need these top cameras for everything, unless you are so arrogant that you think you are creating art every time you push the shutter button.
Canon needs to make these little cameras truly compelling, or just stop making them.
 

SteveC

M50 & T6i
Sep 3, 2019
294
165
Canon needs to make these little cameras truly compelling, or just stop making them.
They obviously think there's a niche for this camera that ENOUGH people will see. If they turn out to be wrong, it's on them, but in the meantime "needs to" advice comes across as someone assuming everyone else shares their evaluation of the camera's worth.
 

Sharlin

EOS 6D MK II
Dec 26, 2015
1,034
531
Turku, Finland
They obviously think there's a niche for this camera that ENOUGH people will see. If they turn out to be wrong, it's on them, but in the meantime "needs to" advice comes across as someone assuming everyone else shares their evaluation of the camera's worth.
I mean, the M100 is the third best selling MILC in Japan, with about 10% market share (the M50 is, naturally, the best seller, with the a6400 on the second place)! Even if they sold zero M200’s outside East Asia, it would likely still be a big hit. Etienne seems to be seriously out of touch with even the most basic facts of what is going on in the camera market.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SteveC

Etienne

EOS 6D MK II
Sep 19, 2010
1,359
155
Ottawa Ontario
I mean, the M100 is the third best selling MILC in Japan, with about 10% market share (the M50 is, naturally, the best seller, with the a6400 on the second place)! Even if they sold zero M200’s outside East Asia, it would likely still be a big hit. Etienne seems to be seriously out of touch with even the most basic facts of what is going on in the camera market.
Sure dude,
Check back in a couple years when entry level phones have better cameras than today's top phones. The writing is on the wall for these compact cameras unless they offer something of significant value over a phone.
High end cameras will continue on, which is why we are seeing so many new FF, even in video, and medium formats coming in.
Anyway, camera snobs will always poo-poo smartphones and no evidence can change that.
 

Sharlin

EOS 6D MK II
Dec 26, 2015
1,034
531
Turku, Finland
Sure dude,
Check back in a couple years when entry level phones have better cameras than today's top phones. The writing is on the wall for these compact cameras unless they offer something of significant value over a phone.
Sure. But given that the M100 probably sells better than, say, all Fuji cameras combined, I’m sure there will be plenty of buyers for the M200 as well. Farther in the future, hard to say, but Canon certainly has a better idea than anyone on this forum.
 

SteveC

M50 & T6i
Sep 3, 2019
294
165
Sure dude,
Check back in a couple years when entry level phones have better cameras than today's top phones. The writing is on the wall for these compact cameras unless they offer something of significant value over a phone.
High end cameras will continue on, which is why we are seeing so many new FF, even in video, and medium formats coming in.
Anyway, camera snobs will always poo-poo smartphones and no evidence can change that.
And if that turns out to be the case...then Canon will discontinue it at that time. In the meantime, though, they will have made a good deal of money off of it filling a need that a cheapass smartphone doesn't--yet--fill.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sharlin