Canon to announce EOS-1D X equivalent EOS R system camera in 2021?

[privatebydesign]

Is there not also a responsibility on posters not to enter hyperbole mode (another problem in the current world of social media).
Comments along the lines of 'it is in no way a wildlife camera' when others can clearly show it can be successfully used as such, but what they really mean 'it does not match what I want from a camera' . When someone makes broad sweeping comments like that it can lead to frustration and intemperate responses.
I am not making excuses, just an observation.

Even if there was the comment that started this subtext wasn't hyperbolic in any way shape or form.

But yes, I agree, people are too hyperbolic and a little narrow minded on occasions. None of us are unique in the way we use our cameras but there are very diverse subsets that have differing and diverse priorities and abilities as well as experience.

I'm sure if you sat me next to a BIF specialist who was using a box brownie while I had a 1DX they would get better images than me. Send me out to take pictures of people with anything and I'll get you more compelling images than any bird photographer I know, and I live in Florida so they are a dime a dozen.

Any serious bird photographer would laugh this image into their trash can on a technical level, most travel shooters would kill for the shot. The second image was shot on assignment and would have zero value were it not critically sharp.

 

[Photo Hack]

Given that Canon is not losing ILC market share to Sony, what you see doesn’t match reality.

Lastly, are you accusing him of lying? Do you have evidence to suggest that the shooters he’s seen switching to Sony don’t exist?

I also have seen the trend in our circles of pros. Is what I’m seeing just me making up my own reality? Are you going to tell me that many of my friends and competitors are not switching camera systems?

Lol you’re starting to sound like the “flat earther” you crusade against on this forum.

 

[Viggo]

Lastly, are you accusing him of lying? Do you have evidence to suggest that the shooters he’s seen switching to Sony don’t exist?

I also have seen the trend in our circles of pros. Is what I’m seeing just me making up my own reality? Are you going to tell me that many of my friends and competitors are not switching camera systems?

Lol you’re starting to sound like the “flat earther” you crusade against on this forum.

Either what you’re seeing is just not even a large enough number to register. Or more people are joining Canon than leaving.

 

[unfocused]

Last Friday in November. Well, someone could get really good camera deals on Sunday or Cyber Monday which would be both in December but most of the good deals should be already be gone.

Not necessarily. With big ticket, specialty items like cameras, the market gets very fluid in Nov-Dec. Best just to watch Canon Price Watch and see how the deals develop.

 

[Photo Hack]

Either what you’re seeing is just not even a large enough number to register. Or more people are joining Canon than leaving.

It’s actually reflected in the same marketshare Neuro is supposedly citing.

Canons in 2014 was over 43% to Sony’s 13% and Nikons 32%.

In 2017 Canon was at 36% to Sony’s 18% and Nikons 19%. In 2018 was an uptick for Canon to 40% to Sony’s loss of .7%.

The real loser here is Nikon but both have obviously lost share to someone and I’m willing to bet it was to Sony, Fuji, Olympus, and Panasonic.

The question is what did these manufacturers offer over Canon and Nikon during that stretch of time?

And again this is total unit sales. Canon has the biggest presence in high volume entry level products which is overall declining for everyone. I believe Canons marketshare is holding up because simply being the most recognized brand and the loyal following among many other things.

The area of note for full frame would be pros and amateurs who we are observing making a switch in systems over the past 5 years.

Welcome to reality, where observation and experience meets data and objective truth.

Interchangeable-Lens Camera Market Share in 2014

Nikkei Asian Review published this interesting chart showing which companies dominated the interchangeable-lens camera sales in 2014. Canon had 43.3%,

petapixel.com

https://petapixel.com/2019/07/08/canon-increased-market-share-in-2018-but-camera-market-continues-to-bleed/

 

[unfocused]

Canons own team would suggest that’s not true. When interviewed, they specifically stated it’s market and position is between 6D and 5D. If it’s truly the mirrorless “5D mkv”, all the criticisms of the camera are not just hyperbole but well deserved.

Based on the pattern so far, and on Canon's propensity to slot cameras at different price targets, the Canon camera hierarchy could well look like this in the future (price at introduction):

Flagship DSLR (1Dx) $6000
Flagship Mirrorless (Rx) $5,000
5D $3,500
R High Resolution $3,500
R $2,200
6D $2,000
RP $1,300

The flagship mirrorless will not have some of the features of the 1D, but will perform at a similar level, just as the R does not have all the features of the 5D but generally performs at a similar level.

I'm not sure where Canon will slot a high resolution mirrorless, but if the 5Ds is any indication, they will ask a premium price for it and not offer a lot of discounts. I'm putting it around the price of the 5D at introduction, but it could be slightly higher. Maybe lower, but I doubt it.

I think people expecting exact equivalents between DSLRs and Rs will be disappointed, because I don't think that's Canon's strategy. People expecting a fifth full frame R camera should be prepared to have their bubbles burst.

 

[AlanF]

You have also included in your post "Just Deposed" "for a while" and not to mention those are all DSLR's not mirrorless
and when canon releases a mirrorless the R it is sub par in just about every way including a single SD slot !
It was really release for Mid level photographers at best and priced it like a pro camera!
I own the Canon 5D4 and 3 and love them don't get me wrong! but I look at what Sony has done and say why do we as canon users need to wait till 2021 to see that type of camera for Canon?
Canon continues to lag and there financials only proves that is a grave mistake.

Read what you wrote and what I replied to:

....
The best thing to come out of Canon in the past 5 years is the M6 MK2 and that has it's flaws, but is otherwise a great little camera.

You wrote that the M6 Mk2 was better than all of those great Canon cameras I listed. DSLR vs MILC didn't come into it.

 

[neuroanatomist]

That’s also not direct evidence to contradict the anecdotal claim that Canon and Nikon shooters are switching to Sony in large numbers.

1. Sony’s marketshare has dramatically increased over the past decade.
2. Nikon’s marketshare has decreased over the same period.
3. Canon’s marketshare has also decreased and fluctuated over the same period, although very negligible.
4. New shooters and retiring shooters also play a factor.
5. Shooters can be switching 1 to 1 for net zero gain.

I could get far into this but your rebuttal isn’t one based in logic. We don’t have the direct information to directly object to or prove that there is a migration of Canon and Nikon shooters moving to Sony. We have inferred conclusions and anecdotal evidence so that’s why we see these claims on here so often. Personally my experience with the pros I work with reflects a move from Canons and Nikon to Sony, Fuji, and Panasonic and not the other way around. This is reality and also can be seen in marketshare.

At the foundation of this claim I believe is the idea that “Pro” and Amateur photographers who are spending the most money in the camera marketing are slowly moving to Sony. From all indications, I believe this to be true.

How can this be true and Canon still maintain their strong marketshare in units sold? I believe it is in their entry level market. One which overall is dramatically contracting and a reason for worry among a lot of us. It’s not a secret Canon is bleeding profit right now. I could be wrong, so please correct me, Sony is doing relatively better financially, but again, we don’t have the information for good conclusions.

Revenue marketshare, while also doesn’t tell us much, can at least be another indicator on these questions.

The fact that Nikon and Canon jumped into the full frame mirrorless market, to me, shows that they feel it’s worth their long term effort to compete with Sony.

I’m curious if NO ONE was leaving the big two for Sony, what would be the incentive to invest so much R&D into full frame mirrorless and release half baked cameras that are generations behind Sony?

What would Canons marketshare be today if not for Sony’s mirrorless full frame success? The fact is, Sony’s marketshare has increased. It has to come from somewhere. New shooters, Canon & Nikon shooters, and other brands as well.

Note that I did not mention Nikon in my reply, only Canon, so your arguments about ‘Canon and Nikon’ are not really a relevant or logical rebuttal. Nikon has been losing marketshare, Sony has gained, Canon has gained very slightly.

Certainly there is movement in both (all) directions. I’d argue that only the net change matters.

I’m not going to play the ‘what would have happened if’ game, I think that’s pointless but if it amuses you, by all means fantasize away.

 

[Deleted member 378875]

Is there not also a responsibility on posters not to enter hyperbole mode (another problem in the current world of social media).
Comments along the lines of 'it is in no way a wildlife camera' when others can clearly show it can be successfully used as such, but what they really mean 'it does not match what I want from a camera' . When someone makes broad sweeping comments like that it can lead to frustration and intemperate responses.
I am not making excuses, just an observation.

I think, to be fair, its only natural that when we who have invested heavily in Canon equipment, and love it, cannot help but be very envious when we see that Sony are bringing out features which would improve our photographs and our experience of taking them.

IBIS

Eye detect - even in continuous focus mode

Stunning 5 megapixel, low latency EVF
showing exposure before taking the shot
allowing the user see the photograph just taken even in bright sunlight

I for one would love those features and it *hurts* that I'm going to have to wait for maybe 2 or 3 years until they are built into a Canon camera which is the same price as a 5D4 retails for today.

So, its only natural that people groan ... I'm with the groaners .. because I'm normal

 

[Viggo]

“
Eye detect - even in continuous focus mode

Stunning 5 megapixel, low latency EVF
showing exposure before taking the shot
allowing the user see the photograph just taken even in bright sunlight”


Except for the 5 mp, what does the R not have of those features?

 

[ronno]

On the topic of dual cards, what is the latest workflow for onsite backup? I haven’t had to do that since the glory days of the 6D release when we had four of those in our studio.

Seriously considering selling all of our 5D Mark IVs and going to R since the price of grey market is in the toilet right now and I want to move to single body shooting events with 28-70 & 70-200 and use our RPs for backup. Could sell all our primes and really simplify our day. Also doing more video than ever.

I’m betting we see under $1,500 for an R around Black Friday. They’re already around $1,530 right now.

Message me if you do onsite backup for weddings and fast paced events. Don’t want to stink up the thread with more Dual Card slot debate. Thanks.

Here’s the backup workaround: The EOS R can be set to send *full-size* jpegs to your iPad, cell phone, laptop over WIFI - while shooting RAW to the SD card.

It works *very fast* (under a second per image), and seems a a reasonable Plan B if you are worried about a card failing.

 

[SecureGSM]

We saw it last year, it is called the EOS R.

I believe it was rather a mirrorless 6D II with upgraded sensor: weather protection levels, controls, omission of DPRAW, second memory card. Future will tell though. My expectation that 5D level mirrorless to be priced at around $3500-3800 at release. R was an aggressively priced product designed to penetrated enthusiasts and some categories of pro shooters that do not require what I mentioned above.
I expect a 5D level mirrorless to be released in about 1 year from now.

 

[SecureGSM]

Except JPGs aren’t RAWs and wifi will kill the battery fast. Obviously better than nothing being somewhat acceptable for some shooters. Not generally a solution though.

 

[Photo Hack]

Note that I did not mention Nikon in my reply, only Canon, so your arguments about ‘Canon and Nikon’ are not really a relevant or logical rebuttal. Nikon has been losing marketshare, Sony has gained, Canon has gained very slightly.

Certainly there is movement in both (all) directions. I’d argue that only the net change matters.

I’m not going to play the ‘what would have happened if’ game, I think that’s pointless but if it amuses you, by all means fantasize away.

Do you care to play the game of Canon losing 7% marketshare between 2014 to 2017 while Sony and Fuji increased? This the most relevant period when Sony was releasing the cameras that Nikon AND Canon shooters have supposedly been switching for, with 2018 being the time of speculation and release of Canon and Nikon's own FF mirrorless cameras.

Also Canon hasn’t regained the share they lost to Sony. You can use one year of data to support your claim if you want, but it’s intellectually dishonest and too narrow of context in the argument.

You’ve claimed to admit when you’re wrong when faced with facts. You’ve been singing the marketshare argument to shut down Sony fanboys in every thread without using contextual or factual data.

I’m curious what your response will be as you couldn’t do basic math the last time you were wrong about the length of the 28-70. Seems like you can’t see that 36% is less than 43%. Seems facts only matter if it fits your narrative on here.

P.S. You're welcome to your own opinion Neuro but not your own facts, as they often seem to not be in your favor. The irony doesn't escape me here. Even more embarrassing is the smug attitude you have toward those you disagree with.

 

[navastronia]

Here’s the backup workaround: The EOS R can be set to send *full-size* jpegs to your iPad, cell phone, laptop over WIFI - while shooting RAW to the SD card.

It works *very fast* (under a second per image), and seems a a reasonable Plan B if a card fails.

Is this feature also available in the RP?

 

[unfocused]

...I expect a 5D level mirrorless to be released in about 1 year from now.

I doubt very much you will see five full frame mirrorless cameras from Canon -- RP, R, High Resolution R, R "X" and your "two card R."

Canon Rumors Guy seems pretty confident about the high resolution and "X" R bodies, but has not indicated that the Canon you are seeking is likely to materialize. I'm also not sure Canon agrees about the importance of a second card slot. They could follow a shortened release schedule and come out with an R II sometime in late 2021 or early 2022.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Lastly, are you accusing him of lying? Do you have evidence to suggest that the shooters he’s seen switching to Sony don’t exist?

I also have seen the trend in our circles of pros. Is what I’m seeing just me making up my own reality? Are you going to tell me that many of my friends and competitors are not switching camera systems?

Lol you’re starting to sound like the “flat earther” you crusade against on this forum.

You seem to be constructing strawmen merely for the sake of being argumentative. The fact that I personally know more Nikon shooters than Canon shooters says nothing about ILC market share. If you believe it does, cf. flat earther.

 

[Deleted member 378875]

“
Eye detect - even in continuous focus mode

Stunning 5 megapixel, low latency EVF
showing exposure before taking the shot
allowing the user see the photograph just taken even in bright sunlight”


Except for the 5 mp, what does the R not have of those features?

Well firstly the Eos R doesn't have IBIS

Secondly it has a slow and low resolution viewfinder

And when Tony Northrup compared the eye tracking to the A7R3 he said it was
"Slow but smooth"
"Significantly lower hit rate"
"Much worse than the Sony"

My own experience of Canon EVFs with the M5 put me off for a long time to come - I thought it was dreadful compared to an OVF.

Right now I have a 5D4 and I don't personally want to spend a very significant sum of money for an Eos R when I see reviews telling me it is way inferior to Sony

As I said - I love my 5D and I will wait until Canon have brought out something which represents a significant advantage - but slow innacurate eye AF and a poor EVF with no IBIS doesn't cut it for me im sorry to say

 

[Otara]

The wifi backup is a nice idea but has various gotchas. For instance if you have the viewfinder in the wrong info mode you wont even know if its loses connection till you look at the back display.

 

[Photo Hack]

You seem to be constructing strawmen merely for the sake of being argumentative. The fact that I personally know more Nikon shooters than Canon shooters says nothing about ILC market share. If you believe it does, cf. flat earther.

Straw man? I disagree. I'm stating that his observations reflect reality and I share the same observations. You're accusing his observations of not matching reality. You're also saying he's entitled to his opinion but not his own facts.

Nit picking this little part of what I've said and ignoring the relative and main points is being "argumentative" in my opinion. Especially when you're wrong to begin with and feel obligated to be the fact police here and argue anyone at anytime about anything, even if it's talking about the shape of the earth.

Are you projecting that hard to not see how wrong you are here, and in fact, the one who's "facts" don't line up with reality? Your facts (I would like to see some references here since you swing these marketshare facts at so many people) are incorrect. Sony has gained marketshare and Canon has lost marketshare since Sony became a relevant player in the Full Frame market.

We can hypothesize over why that is until the cows come home, but that doesn't change the facts.