What’s next from Canon in 2020?

Go Wild

EOS 80D
Dec 8, 2014
180
170
It's a very sexy-looking device. I'm not very fond of the more angular look of the R and RP, but this one brings back just enough "Canon curves" while still being recognizably its own thing.
Yep! True! I really like this look, the R and RP ins not so beautiful. But this one..... Yaayy!! :love: :love:
 

Kit.

EOR R
Apr 25, 2011
1,700
1,049
It is meant to give people a rough idea, and to exercise some image
analysis without the brand name or price tag overshadowing every
thought.
I haven't found anything surprising at the top of my list, and I don't think I can trust its bottom: maybe those lenses were just unlucky in framing vs. their alternatives in comparison.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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Every single 5D Mk4 buyer I know is ready to jump, some
just want to wait for a couple of months for the first price
adjustment. None of them says to prefer OVF and mirror.

You might be surprised.
It's going to be a lot more than two months before the price on this one drops any. And that is assuming the coronavirus doesn't delay production.
 
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AEWest

EOS 80D
Jan 30, 2020
110
115
It's going to be a lot more than two months before the price on this one drops any. And that is assuming the coronavirus doesn't delay production.
I agree. I wouldn't expect a price drop in the first year unless Canon charges a substantial premium over a 5D (say $5K) and they find the sales slow because of this.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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Good thing I'm no influencer.

Read the process part first and then go to comparison to do your own double blind test.

Only after completing your own go to home and look at the
all star results, in order to not spoil it for you.
My results:

First: Schneider 150mm f/3.5 (Medium Format)
Second: EF 85mm f/1.2 L II on APS-C
Third: EF 300mm f/2.8 L IS II (At longer focal lengths/narrower angles of view there's not much field curvature that needs correcting)
Fourth: Olympus 45mm f/1.8 (Many MFT lenses leave the correction to software in the camera's processing engine - I know no specifics for this lens)
Fifth: Nikon AF-S 50mm f/1.8G (2011 budget design)
Sixth: Sigma 85mm f/1.4 EX DG HSM on FF (2010 design well before the obsession with FF correction that marks the later ART series)
Seventh: Sigma 85mm f/1.4 EX DG HSM on APS-C (2010 design well before the obsession with FF correction that marks the later ART series)
Eighth: Nikon 50mm f/1.8 (unknown version - presumably pre-AF era since no AF or AF-S in designation)
Ninth: EF 85mm f/1.2 L II on FF
Tenth: Nikon AF-S 50mm f/1.8G (older, less corrected design)
Eleventh: Leica 50mm f/2 Apo-Summicron-M ASPH on FF
Twelvth: Canon 85mm f/1.8 on FF
Thirteenth: Fuji 56mm f/1.2 FX R on APS-C
Fourteenth: Tamron SP 70-200mm f/2.8 VC on FF (2012 version?)
Fifteenth: EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro on APS-C (non-L) - This is the first one that surprised me as it is optimized for close focus and has significant flat field correction.
Sixteenth: Nikon 85mm f/1.4 on FF (Unknown version - presumably pre-AF era since no AF or AF-S in designation)
Seventeenth: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 EX DG HSM on APS-C (2008 design well before the obsession with FF correction that marks the later ART series)
Eighteenth: Sony 35mm f/2.8 FE ZA (First E-mount lens on list - only scored a 3)
Nineteenth: Leica 50mm f/0.96 Noctilux-M ASPH shot at f/2.4 on FF
Twentieth: Sigma 50mm f/2.8 DG Macro on FF (1998 design. Though a macro, doesn't show as much (if any) flat field correction as more expensive macro lenses)
Twenty-first: Sony 50mm f/1.8 E OSS on APS-C (cheap 2011 design)
Twenty-second: Nikkor AF-S 50mm f/1.4G on FF(2011 standard double Gauss design)

Everything else scored 2 or less points. This included another example of the EF 85mm f/1.2 L II on APS-C and of the EF 85mm f/1.8 on FF. Also included the EF 100mm f/2.8 L Macro that is highly corrected for field curvature and optimized for close focus, two Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 STM, the current EF 35mm f/2 IS, and both Canon FD 85mm f/1.8 lenses. All of the zooms other than the Tamron listed above.

Dead last: One of the Sigma 50mm f/1.4 ART samples. The other one scored 1 point.

On the global poll, the older sigmas beat the "sharper" ART lenses hands down. Other than the Otus at the top of the list, most of the top 15 are older designs less corrected for flat field and thus "softer" on the edges and corners than newer high end designs. The Otus is an interesting lens with very flat field of focus but distinctive mild astigmatism on the outer 1/3 of the field.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
1,931
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Every single 5D Mk4 buyer I know is ready to jump, some
just want to wait for a couple of months for the first price
adjustment. None of them says to prefer OVF and mirror.

You might be surprised.
I'm a 5D Mark IV buyer/user. I'm far from ready to jump.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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Did not know the price had been announced.
If the 45 MP R5 is introduced for less than the original $1,799 price of the Canon EOS 7D Mark II I'll eat my shoes.

If the R6 is introduced for less than 1/2.56X ($703) the original $1,799 price of the Canon EOS 7D Mark II, which would be the same price per pixel density, then I'll eat my shoes, my socks, and my underwear.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
1,931
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Well, even though it tells me which lens is worth buying if I ever back to the market for a FF 50mm prime lens, the only Canon 50mm lens present in the tests was 50/1.8 STM.

Also, I'm not convinced on the practical utility of just 77 comparisons and just 1 scene to rank 74 lenses with so vast differences in focal range.
Even that one scene was shot at different exposures with different camera positions that affected how the blown out highlights affected each other. There were several conspicuous lenses absent that should have been included, i.e. EF 135mm f/2, EF 200mm f/2.8, EF 200mm f/2, Nikon 105mm f/1.4, etc. There weren't very many of the modern "sharpness is everything" lenses on the list either.
 

Kit.

EOR R
Apr 25, 2011
1,700
1,049
Even that one scene was shot at different exposures with different camera positions that affected how the blown out highlights affected each other.
Yeah, I noticed that some bokeh ball combinations looked better just because of slightly lower exposure, leading to less overexposed (less distracting) highlights.
 
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Feb 17, 2020
3
0
You clearly don't know me. Or Tron. Or...
I might buy, but it will be despite the EVF. Why can't some people get it into their heads that there are cons as well as pros of EVF.

Trying to get more insight, what are the downsides of the EVF? Battery usage, not sure of the amount, but that doesn't bother me, I don't go through a battery when shooting, so, a spare or two solves that issue for me. I think the AF is better, so that is a plus, I like the DOF WYSIWYG of the EVF. Lag is stated to be an issue, I haven't found it an issue, but I don't shoot sports or BIF, so I tend not to think about it from that perspective. Lag versus blackout on a dslr, again, doesn't really factor in my shooting, so looking at others opinions.

I love my 5D3, but I also love my R. For me, I love the feel of the 5D3, fits my hands. To me the 2 cons of the R, it's slow (not going to be an issue based on R5 specs), and it's too small. I bought the grip to give it a better feel in the hands. I would love a R with the form factor of the 5D, but with a fully articulating screen, which may be a sealing issue, I don't know, just guessing, as they didn't put one on the 1Dx3.

As much as I love the 5D3, not sure I would go back, I love the RF glass. My understanding of the RF physics, that the better optics are with wide lenses, not telephoto.
 
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Czardoom

EOS M50
Jan 27, 2020
46
96
Trying to get more insight, what are the downsides of the EVF? Battery usage, not sure of the amount, but that doesn't bother me, I don't go through a battery when shooting, so, a spare or two solves that issue for me. I think the AF is better, so that is a plus, I like the DOF WYSIWYG of the EVF. Lag is stated to be an issue, I haven't found it an issue, but I don't shoot sports or BIF, so I tend not to think about it from that perspective. Lag versus blackout on a dslr, again, doesn't really factor in my shooting, so looking at others opinions.

I love my 5D3, but I also love my R. For me, I love the feel of the 5D3, fits my hands. To me the 2 cons of the R, it's slow (not going to be an issue based on R5 specs), and it's too small. I bought the grip to give it a better feel in the hands. I would love a R with the form factor of the 5D, but with a fully articulating screen, which may be a sealing issue, I don't know, just guessing, as they didn't put one on the 1Dx3.

As much as I love the 5D3, not sure I would go back, I love the RF glass. My understanding of the RF physics, that the better optics are with wide lenses, not telephoto.
I switched over to mirrorless a couple of years ago for the sole reason of being able to see and better judge exposure in the EVF. That, as far as I am concerned is the only plus - although you do get a lighter view in the EVF in darker conditions, so I guess that makes two pluses. You do NOT get DOF WYSIWYG in the EVF with the R or any other mirrorless camera that I have seen, so no advantage there. Cons: Battery usage, lag, more difficult to use in many cases in sunlight (depending on the sun's angle - almost impossible in some cases).
 
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Rule556

I see no reason for recording the obvious. -Weston
Dec 19, 2019
74
74
Seattle
www.flickr.com
You do NOT get DOF WYSIWYG in the EVF with the R or any other mirrorless camera that I have seen, so no advantage there.
The R has a DOF preview that can be mapped to a button. I have it on the multi function button behind the shutter. It allows you to visualize the actual DOF. Of course, the camera focuses fully open so normally you’re seeing DOF on the thinner side.
 
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scyrene

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 4, 2013
2,640
599
UK
www.flickr.com
The R has a DOF preview that can be mapped to a button. I have it on the multi function button behind the shutter. It allows you to visualize the actual DOF. Of course, the camera focuses fully open so normally you’re seeing DOF on the thinner side.
But DSLRs have that button too, so it's not an advantage of EVFs (which I believe was the discussion).
 
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Joules

EOS 7D MK II
Jul 16, 2017
619
577
Hamburg, Germany
But DSLRs have that button too, so it's not an advantage of EVFs (which I believe was the discussion).
DSLR also don't show the true DOF for certain apertures because the focusing screen tends to increase it. Only in LiveView or an EVF will DOF preview really do what it is supposed to.
 
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Joules

EOS 7D MK II
Jul 16, 2017
619
577
Hamburg, Germany
Trying to get more insight, what are the downsides of the EVF?
There is always going to be a delay between something happening in the scene and it being displayed in the EVF.

That is because first, the image needs to be read from the sensor. Then it needs to be processed to look like the JPEG would, if you'd take a picture at this instant (WYSIWYG). Then time could pass until the EVF is ready to be refreshed. And the refresh also takes a time, because pixels don't change state instantly. All these delays add up. If this lag is an issue depends on how small each amount of time is and how fast the subject moves. So it depends on the camera and use case. We will likely come to a point where for all but the most extreme use cases, the cameras will have so little delay that it is not an issue anymore. We'll see how close to that we are in Canon land once the R5 releases.

Then there might also be the issue of blur. It depends on the implementation. But usually displays refresh at a fixed rate, e.g. 60 times per second on most current consumer displays. During the time between the refreshes, the image stays constant. Displays only cause the illusion of motion across the screen. If you follow an object that moves around on the screen with your eye, you will see this object blur, because your eyes moves while the images actually are still for the duration between refreshes. The quicker the refreshes, the less the blur is visible. That's the reason why for video games with fast action for example, high refreshrates like 144 Hz or 200 Hz and beyond have become so popular, and why that's also the refresh rate of certain EVFs*. Once you hit a sufficiently high refresh rate, using techniques like backlight stobing or black frame insertion to effectively turn the display on just before and off just after a refresh can completely eliminate the blur. This is similar to how the old CRT monitors achieve their blur free motion.

If you want to see the effect demonstrated, or check out how good your display is, this website is a popular way for that:


The images move at different refresh rate, so if you follow one with your eye you'll be able to see the difference in perceived blur.

But as long as EVFs on Canon mirrorless don't use sufficiently advanced tech, there's a blurring of fast moving subjects that is different from how an OVF looks.

*The removable EVF for the M cameras has 120 Hz, for the EVF on the Canon R and RP I haven't found any official information, but hopefully the R5 will have 120 Hz or more, since they already have that as an option for the lower end accessory.
 

Kit.

EOR R
Apr 25, 2011
1,700
1,049
Trying to get more insight, what are the downsides of the EVF?
“I’ve finally figured out what’s wrong with photography. It’s a one-eyed man looking through a little ’ole. Now, how much reality can there be in that?” — David Hockney

Now, with the EVF, what the one-eye man is looking at through the hole is a TV.

(or at least that's implied in the idea that the EVF has WYSIWYG)