1DX Mark II vs 7D Mark II experience

[Jack Douglas]

Dave I'm still trying to wrap my head around the almost endless choices with the 1DX2. Today I configured "my menu 1" so I'd have AFMA always at my finger tips along with a few other choices. I love everything except the weight, although it's not that bad considering with the 400 DO II it balances nicely and provides a substantial grip. For wide lenses I'd prefer a lighter body and may be tempted to upgrade my 6D if Canon will just place it around 30MP.

Jack

 

[mistaspeedy]

This all sounds like my recent (a week ago) upgrade from the Canon 20D (best crop body at the time), to the 1D Mark II (flagship sports camera at the time)... only I'm 13 years out of date

I hope you are enjoying your new setup. I know I am experiencing that more shallow depth of field going from 1.6x crop to 1.3x crop, and the effect you are experiencing must be much more pronounced going all the way to full frame.

 

[Jack Douglas]

This all sounds like my recent (a week ago) upgrade from the Canon 20D (best crop body at the time), to the 1D Mark II (flagship sports camera at the time)... only I'm 13 years out of date

I hope you are enjoying your new setup. I know I am experiencing that more shallow depth of field going from 1.6x crop to 1.3x crop, and the effect you are experiencing must be much more pronounced going all the way to full frame.

I bought the iDX2 before I had intended (prefer not to be an early adopter) since CPW offered a good price and I thought it'll take a while to get up to speed. Well, getting up to speed midwinter is a lot more challenging than I imagined given the often poor light and the restricted shooting opportunities. Couple that with a lot of work/jobs in the shop and it has been very frustrating. I'm now pretty comfortable with the controls and options but still am not confident in my AFMA. I prefer to get outside in good light to do this and at -20C ..... I seem to be getting differing degrees of focus accuracy depending on the mode so maybe it's time to ship to Canon.

Jack

 

[East Wind Photography]

This all sounds like my recent (a week ago) upgrade from the Canon 20D (best crop body at the time), to the 1D Mark II (flagship sports camera at the time)... only I'm 13 years out of date

I hope you are enjoying your new setup. I know I am experiencing that more shallow depth of field going from 1.6x crop to 1.3x crop, and the effect you are experiencing must be much more pronounced going all the way to full frame.

I bought the iDX2 before I had intended (prefer not to be an early adopter) since CPW offered a good price and I thought it'll take a while to get up to speed. Well, getting up to speed midwinter is a lot more challenging than I imagined given the often poor light and the restricted shooting opportunities. Couple that with a lot of work/jobs in the shop and it has been very frustrating. I'm now pretty comfortable with the controls and options but still am not confident in my AFMA. I prefer to get outside in good light to do this and at -20C ..... I seem to be getting differing degrees of focus accuracy depending on the mode so maybe it's time to ship to Canon.

Jack

The mode has little to do with afma. It does however impact how the system focuses on various objects. I can tell you also that an incorrect afma can give you very inconsistent results, even when its just marginally off. When it is set correctly, the accuracy goes way up. I wouldnt have thought that was the case but in testing with Focal and looking at the charts i can see the accuracy go way up when its set correctly. Perhaps there is also some kind of phase feedback that doesnt work as it should when afma is off spec. You should also be setting afma using one shot af, not servo. One shot takes the af mode out of the picture and is supposed to be more accurate for stationary subjects.

I can afma wide to short telephotos in the house rather easily but the long teles take more space and are more temperamental. Temperature has a large impact on big teles. I no longer even bother unless the lens has aclimated to the air temp for at least an hour. I would even go as far as saying some may have a different afma at 80 degrees than at 10 degrees.

 

[Jack Douglas]

This all sounds like my recent (a week ago) upgrade from the Canon 20D (best crop body at the time), to the 1D Mark II (flagship sports camera at the time)... only I'm 13 years out of date

I hope you are enjoying your new setup. I know I am experiencing that more shallow depth of field going from 1.6x crop to 1.3x crop, and the effect you are experiencing must be much more pronounced going all the way to full frame.

I bought the iDX2 before I had intended (prefer not to be an early adopter) since CPW offered a good price and I thought it'll take a while to get up to speed. Well, getting up to speed midwinter is a lot more challenging than I imagined given the often poor light and the restricted shooting opportunities. Couple that with a lot of work/jobs in the shop and it has been very frustrating. I'm now pretty comfortable with the controls and options but still am not confident in my AFMA. I prefer to get outside in good light to do this and at -20C ..... I seem to be getting differing degrees of focus accuracy depending on the mode so maybe it's time to ship to Canon.

Jack

The mode has little to do with afma. It does however impact how the system focuses on various objects. I can tell you also that an incorrect afma can give you very inconsistent results, even when its just marginally off. When it is set correctly, the accuracy goes way up. I wouldnt have thought that was the case but in testing with Focal and looking at the charts i can see the accuracy go way up when its set correctly. Perhaps there is also some kind of phase feedback that doesnt work as it should when afma is off spec. You should also be setting afma using one shot af, not servo. One shot takes the af mode out of the picture and is supposed to be more accurate for stationary subjects.

I can afma wide to short telephotos in the house rather easily but the long teles take more space and are more temperamental. Temperature has a large impact on big teles. I no longer even bother unless the lens has aclimated to the air temp for at least an hour. I would even go as far as saying some may have a different afma at 80 degrees than at 10 degrees.

Thanks for this encouraging reply. As it happens today was somewhat sunny and +4C, so comfortable enough, so I set up the tripod and my targets on my stucco wire fence as illustrated here and ran through a series of shots. I used a distance of about 40 feet (this was 400 DO II X2 III). The targets were at the camera height and perpendicular and based on the wire dimensions, the top closest was 2" ahead, the bottom, furthest was 2" behind. Focused on the center/middle one. I have a fancier target but wanted to try this. It wasn't bright enough so ISO 1250 to keep the shutter at 1/1000. Spot focus and one-shot for all shots.

I think where I've gotten off track is judging the best focus to be somewhat midway when it's not as the three samples show. From all the shots my best value seems to be AFMA = 3 but get this, here is a chickadee taken when I was at +11. That's what has been driving me crazy.

Jack

 

[scottkinfw]

I upgraded to a 1DX mark II from a 7D mark II and this is my experience from the upgrade.

I previously had 2 7D Mark II's and now have upgraded my main camera to a 1DX mark II. I still have 1 7D Mark II as my second body. My primary lens on the 1DX2 is the 70-200 2.8 II and secondary lens (on the 7D2 the 16-35 f4 IS). I primarily shoot cycling photos.

I have to say the AF performance is hands down better than the 7D2. I have a higher keeper rate and the images are noticeably better. A no brainer since we are comparing full frame to crop. I never really used AF zone or AF full on the 7D2 because the AF would slow down noticeably. Not the case with the 1DX2.

I usually use AF 9pt expansion but in certain situations I will use AF zone or AF full with ITR (face recognition) and I notice no noticeable difference in AF performance. It does everything I want with no performance hit and a higher keeper rate than the 7D2.

The extra 14 fps is certainly noticeable especially since you don't see a slowdown when you are using expanded AF points with AF point switching.

There are two downsides, though they are outweighed by the better performance. 1 is the fact that the AF points are more centered in the frame. But in all honesty, the AF spread in the crop vs full frame is the same, you just have extra space outside of the AF zone. 2nd is the extra reach. I sometimes miss the extra reach the crop sensor gives you. I was usually fine with the 320mm the 7D2 gave me with me 70-200 but it may be a matter of retraining my mind with the full frame sensor. I wouldn't mind having a 300 or 400 2.8 but that is an extra $8-10000 i'll need to invest.

But the image quality, high ISO performance and all around better AF performance outweighs the two downsides I noticed with the 7D2. Also there are ergonomic differences that make the 1DX2 better. The body feels a lot more solid and the vertical thumb stick is in a better position where I can reach the main dial without much effort. Another advantage is getting to image review is much faster on the 1DX2.

Is it worth the price? If you have the glass and want to step up to the next level, yes. But starting new, you can buy 2 7D2's, a 70-200 2.8 II and 16-35 f4 IS for the same price as just the 1DX2 body.

Thanks for sharing.
Photography is not for the financially faint of heart. Yes you can two 7D2's for the price of a 1DX II, but as you pointed out, they are NOT a 1DXII, and you don't get full frame sweetness.

Enjoy your purchase.

sek

 

[Mikehit]

I think where I've gotten off track is judging the best focus to be somewhat midway when it's not as the three samples show. From all the shots my best value seems to be AFMA = 3 but get this, here is a chickadee taken when I was at +11. That's what has been driving me crazy.

Jack

Although it is hard to tell on such a small file, I think the feather detail on the bird's flank just over and just beneath the wing are in focus but the eye is not - going from +11 to about +3 may well address that.
I AFMA my 7D2 with the 400DO out in the field by focussing on a bird (on a feeder at the time so relatively steady) and looking at the image on the camera screen. AFMA of about 5 made the difference between the eye pin sharp and the focus being on the side of the head.

 

[Jack Douglas]

I think where I've gotten off track is judging the best focus to be somewhat midway when it's not as the three samples show. From all the shots my best value seems to be AFMA = 3 but get this, here is a chickadee taken when I was at +11. That's what has been driving me crazy.

Jack

Although it is hard to tell on such a small file, I think the feather detail on the bird's flank just over and just beneath the wing are in focus but the eye is not - going from +11 to about +3 may well address that.
I AFMA my 7D2 with the 400DO out in the field by focussing on a bird (on a feeder at the time so relatively steady) and looking at the image on the camera screen. AFMA of about 5 made the difference between the eye pin sharp and the focus being on the side of the head.

But Mike, unless my fuzzy old brain is really in trouble, +11 should be producing a strong back focus (see AFMA10 shot) but I see earth in front of his feet in focus. This is not my birding mode but here I purposely used auto-selection for a comparison (3 squares on the wing area). Could it have more brains that spot focus??

Very off topic so I'll possibly post more photos to a new thread if necessary.

Jack

 

[Mikehit]

If you focused on the wing then focus is pretty OK at the AFMA setting you have. But again it depends on which part of the wing you focused on.
My point was more about how big an effect that AFMA has. My photos were taken at about 4meters (probably about the same as your picture of the chicakdee) and it seems that at those distance a seemingly large AFMA can have a relatively small effect on what is in focus. At distances of 20 or 30 metres AFMA will be less critical. I recall reading that AFMA at long distances may not be the best setting at shorter distances so I wonder if that is what you are seeing.

The AF works within depth of focus which is similar to Depth of field. Depth of field is the area around the point of focus that appears to be sharp. Depth of focus is the limits at which the sensor can be placed within the cone of light coming from the lens and the image still look sharp. So if you think about it, you had three AF points light up on a curved surface (the bird's wing) which means not all of them can have been perfectly in focus but were within Canon's defined limits for depth of focus. Which is also why they say you should do AFMA with single point focus.

 

[puffo25]

Hi, I am wondering if anyone has any news for a possible upgrade of the 1DX mark II to a even better body?

 

[Jack Douglas]

Kind of a strange question given it's relatively new. What would you be expecting Canon to do?

Jack

 

[Mikehit]

If you mean 'when will the 1Dx2 be upgraded by Canon', I doubt that will happen before 2021 given the 1Dx2 was released only one year ago.

If you mean 'any camera currently on the market' I would say there isn't one. Different, yes - different bodies with different compromises but overall 'better'? I very much doubt it.

What problems or deficiencies are you trying to resolve?

 

[privatebydesign]

Hi, I am wondering if anyone has any news for a possible upgrade of the 1DX mark II to a even better body?

I'd be shocked if there isn't a 1DX MkIII in 2020, if not retail then many press and agency user cameras with retail stock available late 2020. Tokyo is hosting the 2020 Summer Olympics and that has been a key aspect of high end camera releases.

 

[privatebydesign]

What problems or deficiencies are you trying to resolve?

I don't have any issues with mine yet, but as upgrades I can see:-
1/ Touchscreen actually work all of the time with an option to turn it off. Goodness only knows why that isn't an option now! Not having the touchscreen enabled for review is dumb.
2/ Even more customization. There is no real reason why every button can't be assigned any or every function of choice.
3/ Built in Wifi. With the Ethernet port all the firmware and most of the hardware is already there, why not just put that chip in the GPS 'bubble'.
4/ Built in RT control of flashes. That would be an industry first, as was the RT system and there are precious few 'firsts' left now.
5/ MP bump. Very few people are put off by modest MP raises, say 24 or 26. That would put this camera into final dream configuration for me, personally.
6/ I'd expect a silly mirror up fps boost. At least 20fps with DPAF but probably more to be higher than the A9.
7/ Outside the box, how about an accompanying EVF, like the M6, to use with this mirror up functionality?

 

[Jack Douglas]

Maybe the OP is just bate to get us worked up!

Hard to argue with this list , other than what happens to video. The programmability restrictions seem unjustifiable too.

A small thing - I get annoyed by CF being default (forced on me by having the card out in the reader for a few minutes). Why would any designer default a function to a lower spec'd setting. To please folk who would never pony up a few $$ for a small Cfast card??

I'm not shooting double images but losing speed that way is also a negative. And why not an option to trade off some speed against a greater MP sensor, like your 24-26 @ 12 fps but 20 @ 14 fps. This may be more technical than I realize.

Then there is, how to cut the weight down.

Regardless, I won't be able to justify/afford it anyway

Jack

 

[Cthulhu]

This all sounds like my recent (a week ago) upgrade from the Canon 20D (best crop body at the time), to the 1D Mark II (flagship sports camera at the time)... only I'm 13 years out of date

I hope you are enjoying your new setup. I know I am experiencing that more shallow depth of field going from 1.6x crop to 1.3x crop, and the effect you are experiencing must be much more pronounced going all the way to full frame.

I bought the iDX2 before I had intended (prefer not to be an early adopter) since CPW offered a good price and I thought it'll take a while to get up to speed. Well, getting up to speed midwinter is a lot more challenging than I imagined given the often poor light and the restricted shooting opportunities. Couple that with a lot of work/jobs in the shop and it has been very frustrating. I'm now pretty comfortable with the controls and options but still am not confident in my AFMA. I prefer to get outside in good light to do this and at -20C ..... I seem to be getting differing degrees of focus accuracy depending on the mode so maybe it's time to ship to Canon.

Jack

The mode has little to do with afma. It does however impact how the system focuses on various objects. I can tell you also that an incorrect afma can give you very inconsistent results, even when its just marginally off. When it is set correctly, the accuracy goes way up. I wouldnt have thought that was the case but in testing with Focal and looking at the charts i can see the accuracy go way up when its set correctly. Perhaps there is also some kind of phase feedback that doesnt work as it should when afma is off spec. You should also be setting afma using one shot af, not servo. One shot takes the af mode out of the picture and is supposed to be more accurate for stationary subjects.

I can afma wide to short telephotos in the house rather easily but the long teles take more space and are more temperamental. Temperature has a large impact on big teles. I no longer even bother unless the lens has aclimated to the air temp for at least an hour. I would even go as far as saying some may have a different afma at 80 degrees than at 10 degrees.

Thanks for this encouraging reply. As it happens today was somewhat sunny and +4C, so comfortable enough, so I set up the tripod and my targets on my stucco wire fence as illustrated here and ran through a series of shots. I used a distance of about 40 feet (this was 400 DO II X2 III). The targets were at the camera height and perpendicular and based on the wire dimensions, the top closest was 2" ahead, the bottom, furthest was 2" behind. Focused on the center/middle one. I have a fancier target but wanted to try this. It wasn't bright enough so ISO 1250 to keep the shutter at 1/1000. Spot focus and one-shot for all shots.

I think where I've gotten off track is judging the best focus to be somewhat midway when it's not as the three samples show. From all the shots my best value seems to be AFMA = 3 but get this, here is a chickadee taken when I was at +11. That's what has been driving me crazy.

Jack

I'm a little lost as to why you'd be even messing with AFMA working like that, and so will you until you get your process right. Get actual focus targets, tripods and measure your distances accurately or you'll forever be wondering why it's sometimes right and sometimes wrong - which entirely defeats the point of AFMA.

 

[Mikehit]

I'm a little lost as to why you'd be even messing with AFMA working like that, and so will you until you get your process right. Get actual focus targets, tripods and measure your distances accurately or you'll forever be wondering why it's sometimes right and sometimes wrong - which entirely defeats the point of AFMA.

Why do you need actual focus targets?
I AFMA'd my 7D2 with 100-400ii using a stick in the ground and seeing which blades of grass are in focus. Mind you, I chose a bright sunny day when contrast was high and I think that is the only real proviso - it is also where I believe Jack made an error because February in Canada is not the sort of conditions I would do AFMA.
Why is exact distance necessary? All you need is to AFMA at a distance that optically approximates your shooting conditions.

 

[arbitrage]

Hi, I am wondering if anyone has any news for a possible upgrade of the 1DX mark II to a even better body?

The 1DX3 will be out some time before the 2020 Olympics in Tokyo. Probably announced late 2019 and out sometime in Spring 2020 before the Summer games. You won't hear anything about it till closer to that time.

I thought the 1DX2 from 1DX would be a hard upgrade to justify, and it was, but the f/8 AF, red AF points and a few other minor things have made it a worthwhile upgrade to me. That said, I'm finding it very hard to even imagine a spec sheet that would make me buy a 1DX3. I think it will need to be a radical improvement to the AF system or a much higher MP sensor with different FPS options based on internal crop of the RAW file (not useless 5DSR crop modes). Some sort of OVF/EVF hybrid to see the actual exposure in the VF but still retain the beautiful view of an OVF (I hate EVFs other than the benefit of previewing your image before the shot).

Anyways, still a few years before we will hear anything meaningful.

 

[Jack Douglas]

@ Cthulhu

I had a target with a sloping scale, which was on a tripod to adjust height and angle. The camera was on a tripod and I used the camera level to insure that I was shooting perpendicular to the target which was square to the camera. There were a couple things that influenced my situation. One was needing to be outdoors in Alberta in February and another was using equal distance front/back rather than simply the sharpest image. There may have been other inconsistencies in spite of my best efforts as my hands were freezing not to mention ....

One thing I didn't realize is that even the 1DX2 doesn't focus that great with back light and due to temperatures I was shooting test shots out a south window with my birdie subjects rather poorly illuminated. I imagined that the camera would refocus on a transitory bird and well, it can't, in spite of fiddling with the settings. Furthermore, I was sometimes using the 400DO II X2 III @ F8 and outer focus points, which I didn't realize were not cross type. Steep learning curve for me at a poor time of the year!

Sometimes I do dumb things but for the most part the AFMA wasn't in that class. I'd done AFMA numerous times with my 6D but coincidentally always with the luxury of spring/summer/fall.

And, I'm now enjoying the 1DX2 with good focus so the AFMA values I achieved at the end seem fine.

Jack

 

[tron]

There was a case where I could not focus correctly on a bird (Great Reed Warbler). Lighting was not ideal (it was not front lit for sure).

Fortunately after driving a few hundred meters I found a similar (if not the same ) bird and I was able to focus successfully. The funny thing was that the focusing conditions were harder (this time there were moving reed beds due to air) in that case but everything went OK. The shooting angle was different than the first case of course....

In both cases the gear was the same: 5DsR + 500 f/4 IS II.