Anything Shot with a 1Dx mark II

[Jack Douglas]

Nice shots, Viggo. I especially like the last one.

Thanks a bunch Click! I had a bit poor hitrate with it running, but then I realized I zoomed in on the face even though it missed and scrolled through the shots on it's face. But then I zoomed in at the actual point for every shot and a huge bunch of them are very much in focus where the point was, so I guess it's just me that can't follow. I tried every case and option for AF, but even Case 2 with the slowest re-focus option selected it jumped to the wolf's every time it tipped its head down when running.

Very interesting and nice!

I have so many shots, even now with confidence that AFMA is the correct value, with a spot focus point clearly where it needs to be but the result not being perfectly in focus. And that's after having adjusted my shutter speed up to be sure it's not blur.

I feel like I haven't stepped up very much/at all from when I was using the 6D, as far as actual IQ is concerned. However, as previously pointed out to me a lot of my shots from indoors to outdoors have back lighting and most of the shots I relate to with the 6D were great lighting, so maybe it's apples and oranges. I'm still searching for the best AF settings in various circumstances.

Jack

 

[Jack Douglas]

This is one of my favourite images....this superb Cheetah was standind in this branch, at the end of a rainy day. She was trying to spot some prey. The pose, the subtle falling rain, the colours, the composition...and of course the beauty of this magnificent animal....everything on this photo makes me love it!

iso 2500 - F4 - 1/1000

I agree, that's really special, great shot.

Now, changing the subject. CR has changed/updated the photo attachment protocol etc. and I was hoping we would see crisp photos and it seems there haven't been any improvements. What I'm seeing on my monitor just doesn't impress me, or is it just me?

Jack

 

[Viggo]

Nice shots, Viggo. I especially like the last one.

Thanks a bunch Click! I had a bit poor hitrate with it running, but then I realized I zoomed in on the face even though it missed and scrolled through the shots on it's face. But then I zoomed in at the actual point for every shot and a huge bunch of them are very much in focus where the point was, so I guess it's just me that can't follow. I tried every case and option for AF, but even Case 2 with the slowest re-focus option selected it jumped to the wolf's every time it tipped its head down when running.

Very interesting and nice!

I have so many shots, even now with confidence that AFMA is the correct value, with a spot focus point clearly where it needs to be but the result not being perfectly in focus. And that's after having adjusted my shutter speed up to be sure it's not blur.

I feel like I haven't stepped up very much/at all from when I was using the 6D, as far as actual IQ is concerned. However, as previously pointed out to me a lot of my shots from indoors to outdoors have back lighting and most of the shots I relate to with the 6D were great lighting, so maybe it's apples and oranges. I'm still searching for the best AF settings in various circumstances.

Jack

I don't think you really can use spot focus and servo, at least not on moving things. And the AF cases mostly doesn't work unless you have expansion.

The thing I still don't understand is when to use AF for erratic movement and when to use Case two and ignore things in front. I try both with everything, but neither works...

 

[Jack Douglas]

Nice shots, Viggo. I especially like the last one.

Thanks a bunch Click! I had a bit poor hitrate with it running, but then I realized I zoomed in on the face even though it missed and scrolled through the shots on it's face. But then I zoomed in at the actual point for every shot and a huge bunch of them are very much in focus where the point was, so I guess it's just me that can't follow. I tried every case and option for AF, but even Case 2 with the slowest re-focus option selected it jumped to the wolf's every time it tipped its head down when running.

Very interesting and nice!

I have so many shots, even now with confidence that AFMA is the correct value, with a spot focus point clearly where it needs to be but the result not being perfectly in focus. And that's after having adjusted my shutter speed up to be sure it's not blur.

I feel like I haven't stepped up very much/at all from when I was using the 6D, as far as actual IQ is concerned. However, as previously pointed out to me a lot of my shots from indoors to outdoors have back lighting and most of the shots I relate to with the 6D were great lighting, so maybe it's apples and oranges. I'm still searching for the best AF settings in various circumstances.

Jack

I don't think you really can use spot focus and servo, at least not on moving things. And the AF cases mostly doesn't work unless you have expansion.

The thing I still don't understand is when to use AF for erratic movement and when to use Case two and ignore things in front. I try both with everything, but neither works...

More than just that, I don't understand. Hopefully as a collective CR group we can sort these things out.

Here is a typical situation. A Downy has landed and is pecking away and moving very little and I'm trying to keep a spot AF point on his head and doing pretty well - AI servo. I fire a sequence at 1/2000 and when I view the result I see I've done pretty well with AF point placement but the bird is just not sharp, and not just his head, which may well have been moving. So, here I sit viewing a shot with an AF point right on an eye and it's not all that sharp?? Am I simply expecting too high a keeper rate.

So, I started using auto with tracking and I'd go instantly from spot to auto and end up with maybe 3 or 4 AF points covering the Downy, hey, that should be just what the doctor ordered, right. Examine the result and it's not any/much better.

Jack

 

[Click]

This is one of my favourite images....this superb Cheetah was standind in this branch, at the end of a rainy day. She was trying to spot some prey. The pose, the subtle falling rain, the colours, the composition...and of course the beauty of this magnificent animal....everything on this photo makes me love it!

I really like this picture. Great shot.

 

[ethanz]

Jack, have you read the AF Guide? I'm most of the way through it and I've learned a lot from it. Yet to try them out IRL, but at least I understand things better now.

 

[Viggo]

Jack, have you read the AF Guide? I'm most of the way through it and I've learned a lot from it. Yet to try them out IRL, but at least I understand things better now.

I know it by heart and the theory behind every aspect. That's not saying it works that way IRL. A bird that flies off, then sits down and take off in any direction and you want to avoid focus on the wings when it suddenly moves, how on earth do you set up AF? And does it work?

 

[CharlesGlatzer]

See http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/news/canon_publishes_the_af_setting_guidebook_for_eos-1d_x_mark_ii.do

I used with great success the following settings for eagles images recently taken in Japan.

Steller's Sea Eagle, Rausu, Japan
EOS 1DX II, EF 400DO II, 1/2500 @ f/11, ISO 800.
Manual, Spot metered on snow +2 stops.
AI Servo, Auto AF Point Selection with the single AF point centered on the head, Case 6.

1/2500 to freeze the subject with f/11 to cover DOF. Case 6 reacts very quickly to changes in subject orientation. Provided the initial point of aquisition is appropriately chosen the Auto AF Point Selection will maintain focus on the subject.

You can view more eagles images using this method on my FB page.
https://www.facebook.com/charles.glatzer

Please feel free to contact me via message or directly for additional info.

Best, Chas

Charles Glatzer, M.Photog
Canon Explorer of Light
fstopgear Global Icon
X-Rite Coloratti

 

[Jack Douglas]

Jack, have you read the AF Guide? I'm most of the way through it and I've learned a lot from it. Yet to try them out IRL, but at least I understand things better now.

Well, yes and no. It's a large document but I've digested a lot of it. Of course, much more experimenting and learning is necessary! It seems in a lot of my attempts at BIF I need faster point switching but, alas, it's winter and I don't have a ton of gulls to practice on.

Jack

 

[Mikehit]

. A bird that flies off, then sits down and take off in any direction and you want to avoid focus on the wings when it suddenly moves, how on earth do you set up AF? And does it work?

The only way to avoid that is to use small expanded AF point (1+4) focused on the head and have quick reactions. The old adage of practice, practice and practice. And when you have finished, practice some more.
In woodland near us there is a hole in a tree that is used by either nuthatches or great tits for a nest site and I have tried many times to get pictures of them in flight either taking off or landing and may approach is pretty much one of hit-and-miss where I pre-focus just forward or just behind the plane of the hole and when they look like they are about to take off hit the shutter and hope they fly into the plane of focus.
The other problem is that when small birds take off they can be off and out of shot before I have even pressed the shutter so I am trying to learn the little tell-tale signs of them preparing to fly and that is not easy with birds that are naturally twitchy at the best of times. The evil thought crossed my mind of focussing and making a noise to spook them so I know when they are about to take off but I know that is not really fair on the little critters.


For other AF settings, I try to have f8 or narrower to give you the DOF and set the AF to slow response to intervening objects - in this case the wingtip would be an 'intervening object' and hopefully the AF will not have responded by the time the wingtip passes.
There is also bird behaviour - larger birds tend to (not guaranteed, but tend to) take off into the wind. But there is still that practice thing....

 

[Jack Douglas]

. A bird that flies off, then sits down and take off in any direction and you want to avoid focus on the wings when it suddenly moves, how on earth do you set up AF? And does it work?

The only way to avoid that is to use small expanded AF point (1+4) focused on the head and have quick reactions. The old adage of practice, practice and practice. And when you have finished, practice some more.
In woodland near us there is a hole in a tree that is used by either nuthatches or great tits for a nest site and I have tried many times to get pictures of them in flight either taking off or landing and may approach is pretty much one of hit-and-miss where I pre-focus just forward or just behind the plane of the hole and when they look like they are about to take off hit the shutter and hope they fly into the plane of focus.
The other problem is that when small birds take off they can be off and out of shot before I have even pressed the shutter so I am trying to learn the little tell-tale signs of them preparing to fly and that is not easy with birds that are naturally twitchy at the best of times. The evil thought crossed my mind of focussing and making a noise to spook them so I know when they are about to take off but I know that is not really fair on the little critters.


For other AF settings, I try to have f8 or narrower to give you the DOF and set the AF to slow response to intervening objects - in this case the wingtip would be an 'intervening object' and hopefully the AF will not have responded by the time the wingtip passes.
There is also bird behaviour - larger birds tend to (not guaranteed, but tend to) take off into the wind. But there is still that practice thing....

It's good to hear others have challenges too. However, it doesn't solve the problem, so, as you said practice and recite: "if at first you don't succeed, try, try again"

It seems to me that even the 1DX2 AF is not fast enough for these speedy little critters??

Jack

 

[ethanz]

It seems to me that even the 1DX2 AF is not fast enough for these speedy little critters??

Gasp, don't utter such heresy in these parts.

In all seriousness, it supposedly has the best AF system in the world, so if its not easy for that camera, it probably isn't easy for any other camera.

 

[Viggo]

For me, it has been a big hurdle to accept that nothing is flawless and that AF systems do miss. That sometimes I feel
It should track and hit. For example with some wolves in the zoo that was simply bobbing along in a slow pace and it just kept missing no matter what I tried. I came to realize that focus often on the point, I just didn't have the point where I wanted. I wish I could do setups and try repeated tests and really fine tune how I set up af, but I don't. So every time I try something with birds or whatever it feels like re-inventing the wheel every time.

 

[ethanz]

For me, it has been a big hurdle to accept that nothing is flawless and that AF systems do miss. That sometimes I feel
It should track and hit. For example with some wolves in the zoo that was simply bobbing along in a slow pace and it just kept missing no matter what I tried.

Glad I'm not the only one.

 

[Viggo]

For me, it has been a big hurdle to accept that nothing is flawless and that AF systems do miss. That sometimes I feel
It should track and hit. For example with some wolves in the zoo that was simply bobbing along in a slow pace and it just kept missing no matter what I tried.

Glad I'm not the only one.

Ditto

 

[Mikehit]

I came to realize that focus often on the point, I just didn't have the point where I wanted.

Unfortunately, it is a familiar story - modern technology often highlights user error.
I hired a 5D4 this weekend and shot a few hundred shots of birdlife at a local public park and it first of all confirmed how good that 7D2 actually is, and showed how much better the AF of the 5D4 is even with the 400DO/I recall 2xtc.

I recall reading Arash hazeghi's review of the 5D4 (or was it the 1Dx2) and he had a sequence of a harrier and in every one of the photos the head was smack bang in the middle of the shot. So I spent hour just seeing if I could bring the camera to my eye and have the centre point on the subject - 70% were within a quarter of the frame and a few of those were within the 9-point zone. Disappointing.
As for tracking geese in flight (not the fastest birds around) it is disappointing to see how they 'wander' in the frame - something your comments about the wolves brought to mind.

So can I justify the 1Dx2? At the moment it is hard when the 5D4 is so good and if I do go the 1Dx2 I would have to promise myself to put the time in to make it worthwhile.
Or go for the 5D4 and trade up as and when I think I could justify it (hoping the pound has not tanked post-Brexit in the meantime!).

 

[Jack Douglas]

Managed to find a few minutes to do a comparison of my 6D to the 1DX2 with 400 DO II X1.4 (no AF with 6D at 2X) and here is the result. All setting and pp the same. i used the AFMA for the 1DX2 which after countless hours seemed to be best -> +1. For the 6D I don't recall doing the AFMA, so 0. Here it is cropped close to the same, 100%

Jack

 

[Viggo]

Is the result the same when using contrast focus?

 

[Mikehit]

That is some discrepancy there, Jack. Absolutely nothing on the 1Dx2 image is sharp - and the depth of the image is so large that I am confident that, in that image at least, it is not an AFMA issue. IMO it look suspiciously like camera shake.

I think you will have to take this right back to basics and eliminate all variables and introduce them one by one:

mount the lens on a solid tripod and mount the camera (you can do all of this with both cameras to confirm the two images you posted above). Set single-point focus, one-shot.
Turn off AF, focus manually using magnified live view and take a shot using a remote release (no shake from pressing the shutter button nor from the shutter mechanism) - that will tell you the ultimate quality output of each camera
Turn AF on, use Live View and focus/fire using a remote release
Keep AF on and turn LiveView off. Use a remote release to focus/fire (this is focussing as you would normally) - this will tell you if the AF normally used is accurate
Take it off the tripod and try it handheld

If you want to do all this really thoroughly, then take a photo, manually change the AF and then refocus it manually or automatically. No AF is perfect every time and this would give you a 'best of' judgement.

Don't mess around with AFMA at this point - the initial purpose is to see if there is an issue with any part of the AF chain of events.
On that image you posted, I would focus on the spike of wood to the left of the tangle of strippings - if you focus on there and the main trunk or the strippings are more in focus it will indicate if there is any front/back focussing.

I hope this helps.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Thanks guys.

Viggo, it was not liveview, not sure what you mean by using contrast focus.

Mikehit, I subscribe to your procedure and will have to bite the bullet and go through that process with a remote. At this point I've done so many variants that I must confess I'm getting a little tired of it, but you are right. On the other hand I have gone through iterations with 1/2000 shutter and still had issues.

I have of course observed visual shake with 800mm that suggests I may need a higher shutter speed in general. I thought IS and 1/2000 surely should be enough??

Still, in all this my focus was on getting AFMA right and I believe inconsistent AF did not allow me to pinpoint a reliable AFMA value - like how to explain an hour of testing suggesting +12 and another day extensive shooting is saying +1, oh well, such is life!

I figure I'd have to send both the lens and camera in although the lens seems fine with the 6D. I hate to part with it for a month.

Jack