Canon Asking Select Professionals What They Want in a Mirrorless Camera

[Aaron D]

A H,

If we're going to be honest with ourselves, I think there are not many of us who support the weight of a camera and big heavy lens in our right hand alone. When I shoot all day long with a heavy camera, I use a strap and all that weight hangs off my shoulder 80% of the time. When it's at my eye, I support the weight of the camera on my left hand which is beneath the lens. Yeah, I pull it up to my eye with my right hand, but I think we're being a little dramatic to claim a non-stop 24-hour day (or 8, even) with 12 pounds of camera (or 4 even) cantilevered off a right-handed death grip.

And yeah, the 20 mm or so TSE would be wonderful--I saw your comment a while back. I do have the 24 and the 17, too. But a 20 would capture the same approximate view (cropped a little at the sides) as two 24 mm exposures stitched in a "vertical panorama" as I do in 70% of my shots. The 17 can do about the same, but it's really not sharp enough for high-detail shots when shifted. And no polarizing filter, besides. Such a lens would allow the time to make half-a-dozen outrageous posts every day!

 

[eosuser1234]

-4k.
-Electronic Global shutter (flash sync heaven)
-EF-m mount, with EF adapter. Because when i want small lenses i am okay with a slow lens. If I want a faster, then a larger one is fine, but I don't need a faster lense all of the time.
-Wifi.
-GPS which can be logged through phone gps APP to save battery life.
-external grip with two, or even three LP-E17 storage. Two in base, and one in vertical column.
-Full Frame with automatic APS-C scale mode when used with ef-m or ef-s lenses. Also manual scale mode option for extra reach with telephoto lenses.
-12FPS.

Take my $3000.00
Good bye mirror slappers.

 

[goldenhusky]

-4k.
-Electronic Global shutter (flash sync heaven)
-EF-m mount, with EF adapter. Because when i want small lenses i am okay with a slow lens. If I want a faster, then a larger one is fine, but I don't need a faster lense all of the time.
-Wifi.
-GPS which can be logged through phone gps APP to save battery life.
-external grip with two, or even three LP-E17 storage. Two in base, and one in vertical column.
-Full Frame with automatic APS-C scale mode when used with ef-m or ef-s lenses. Also manual scale mode option for extra reach with telephoto lenses.
-12FPS.

Take my $3000.00
Good bye mirror slappers.

What??? LP-E17 hope you are joking on that one... Did you not hear that Sony introduced new bigger batteries and increased the size of A9 and A7r3 to improve the ergonomics and battery capacity

 

[goldenhusky]

If it is pro camera I would say
Use the 5D4 sensor & body
Remove the mirror
Add a EVF
Add H.265 codec for 4k
Add focus peaking
Add Zebras
EF Mount
Dual SD UHS ll cards are good enough. Most likely Canon will not do this

For the amateur users EF-M mount
Add more lenses to EF-M mount especially fast primes
We all know there is at least one camera M50 in the pipeline and I am sure there will be more coming

I am on the camp that thinks the 80D, 6D, 5D and 1D have good ergonomics compared to any Sony or any other mirror less cameras for that matter. At this point I do not even care if it is a mirro less or not. All I need is 4k without crop (obviously aspect ratio crop is expected) internal recording 4k h.265 or 4k out over HDMI so that I can use a external recorder and 1080p 120 fps.

 

[goldenhusky]

-4k.
-Electronic Global shutter (flash sync heaven)
-EF-m mount, with EF adapter. Because when i want small lenses i am okay with a slow lens. If I want a faster, then a larger one is fine, but I don't need a faster lense all of the time.
-Wifi.
-GPS which can be logged through phone gps APP to save battery life.
-external grip with two, or even three LP-E17 storage. Two in base, and one in vertical column.
-Full Frame with automatic APS-C scale mode when used with ef-m or ef-s lenses. Also manual scale mode option for extra reach with telephoto lenses.
-12FPS.

Take my $3000.00
Good bye mirror slappers.

BTW mirror slappers still have an edge in low light AF performance. I own Sony A9 and 5D4. My 5D4 can focus in low light situation where my A9 cannot

 

[goldenhusky]

I sincerely hope the questionnaires are aimed at finalizing specifics and not developing a drawing board discussion.

+1

 

[goldenhusky]

I beg to differ ... simply taking a 5D4 and swapping [OVF + Mirror] for an EVF will in many people's opinion produce a worse camera, simply because an EVF is laggy and the viewfinder image quality is terrible compared to "real life" directly through the lens.

You drove right by my point. Mirrorless isn't about being categorically better/worse than SLRs -- it's another option that can do other things.

Like burst mode.....

A 1DX2 tops out at 14
A 7D2 tops out at 10

A mirror less should be able to hit 120

you mean pictures @ 120 fps, I am afraid there is no storage technology exist today to write that much data. The EVF on the a9 I believe has a 120 fps refresh rate for EVF, that means the image on the EVF is refreshed at 120 fps if this is what you are referring to

 

[goldenhusky]

Top LCD

I'm surprised that this isn't more important to some people. I can hardly imagine purchasing a workhorse camera without one.

I agree with you on the top LCD. Tony Northrup complains about this all the time and calls it a 80s technology while it is true it is an 80s technology it still does the job with an ultra low power consumption. When it comes to power consumption I guess there is nothing else exists that comes closer to that.

 

[Ryananthony]

I sincerely hope the questionnaires are aimed at finalizing specifics and not developing a drawing board discussion.

+1

haha! I thought the exact same thing.

 

[Don Haines]

I beg to differ ... simply taking a 5D4 and swapping [OVF + Mirror] for an EVF will in many people's opinion produce a worse camera, simply because an EVF is laggy and the viewfinder image quality is terrible compared to "real life" directly through the lens.

You drove right by my point. Mirrorless isn't about being categorically better/worse than SLRs -- it's another option that can do other things.

Like burst mode.....

A 1DX2 tops out at 14
A 7D2 tops out at 10

A mirror less should be able to hit 120

you mean pictures @ 120 fps, I am afraid there is no storage technology exist today to write that much data. The EVF on the a9 I believe has a 120 fps refresh rate for EVF, that means the image on the EVF is refreshed at 120 fps if this is what you are referring to

Well.... the Photron high speed cameras top out at 29.4GB per second at dumping to memory....

If we assumed a 26Mpixel sensor, and dumped uncompressed RAW data to memory, that would be 646 full size uncompressed frames per second..... I think that 120 is possible.

 

[ahsanford]

This is exactly what I'm most worried about.
I've had a 7D for ages, and was looking forward to the 6D2. Needless to say, I took a hard pass on that one.
The only reason I haven't jumped ship to Sony yet is that I'm heavily invested in Canon glass, and with all the rumors circulating it just seems reasonable that Canon will come out with a FF mirrorless option sooner rather than later.
I certainly hope it isn't just for "pent up" Canonites like me. I really don't want to spend my money on its JUST because it's mirrorless, I want a decent product!

Because FF is a larger investment for consumers and the products have longer lifecyles than crop (with the possible exception of the 7D line), I don't think anyone is expect a first-gen EOS M -like FF offering that lacks a VF and has horrible AF speed:

• If it's an ILC and not a fixed lens rig, it'll have an integral EVF
• It will have DPAF, touchscreen, etc.
• It will have *at least* a 6D2 sensor (if not something better)

So it'll be well designed, peppy, and work well. What we don't know is what price point they are after or (specifically) who their first targeted Canon user base is, so all the 'other' to what I just wrote above -- MP, fps, AF coverage, tracking, etc. -- is a huge wildcard.

So I don't see Canon putting out something slow and clunky, it just might not be blazingly fast, come with IBIS or have a hybrid VF. I think it'll be something like an EOS M5 scaled up, but again, it depends on who this first rig is after.

- A

 

[ahsanford]

If we're going to be honest with ourselves, I think there are not many of us who support the weight of a camera and big heavy lens in our right hand alone.

I don't disagree with you, and neither would Canon. So surely Canon's tried a daintily-gripped FF rig lately, right?

[Checks bodies at TDP...]

To find a non-chunky gripped FF SLR from Canon, I hope you like film. For some reason Canon has *always* put a chunky grip on their FF DSLRs since the line started in 2002. I contend that reason is the lenses, and I fail to see how removing a mirror magically absolves the wrist of the burden of fast glass.

I still contend whatever they do with the mount, it should be a chunky grip.

(Now, if it was a fixed lens FF rig out the gate, like the Sony RX1 line or the Leica Q, absolutely the grip could be smaller than what we have today. Those are 28-35mm f/2-ish lenses, so the demand on the wrist is peanuts compared to bigger glass.)

And yeah, the 20 mm or so TSE would be wonderful--I saw your comment a while back. I do have the 24 and the 17, too. But a 20 would capture the same approximate view (cropped a little at the sides) as two 24 mm exposures stitched in a "vertical panorama" as I do in 70% of my shots. The 17 can do about the same, but it's really not sharp enough for high-detail shots when shifted. And no polarizing filter, besides. Such a lens would allow the time to make half-a-dozen outrageous posts every day!

Thanks for the detail there -- appreciated. The low priority quip was not belittling your need so much as it's probably the first time I've heard of that ask in this forum, and given that the mother lode of T/S just arrived, it just might be a while before you see that lens.

- A

 

[Sithaputh]

4. Dual native ISO

I've never shot this with ML. Would this not hamper the frame rate, buffer, etc?

8. 5 axis stablizer

If it's full EF mount, you aren't adapting old lenses, so what do you need IBIS for? Canon sells lenses with IS that outperform IBIS, do they not?

13. High Flash sync maybe up to 1000/s without HSS

That would require leaf shutter lenses, right? That's not happening.

Lovely list you gave, it would be a terrific camera. But my guess is you won't get much of that. Expect a mirrorless variant of the 6D2, 5D4 or 5DS2 (if they wait that long).

- A

Yes.. that would be my dream camera, I have more to add to list, but, these are the important part.

 

[snoke]

Good story. Canon see threat in A9/GFX50?

A9 no shutter noise. Perfect many places. Church. Wedding. Tennis.

Why GFX50? Cant understand it. Color? Noise? Controls?

Who they ask important. Explorer of Light/professional = 1DX & 1DX Mark II. Not small body.

 

[privatebydesign]

Good story. Canon see threat in A9/GFX50?

A9 no shutter noise. Perfect many places. Church. Wedding. Tennis.

Why GFX50? Cant understand it. Color? Noise? Controls?

Who they ask important. Explorer of Light/professional = 1DX & 1DX Mark II. Not small body.

No look at their bios, far more EoL’s use 5D Mkiv’s and 5DS/R’s than 1Dx’s.

 

[Deleted member 374702]

...what they think would make a professional mirrorless camera “compelling” enough to purchase and use... they asked specifically what the photographers thought about the Sony a9...

Professionals (compellingly):
- No slow buffer / locking previews etc.
- No dropping to 12 bit in continuous
- No weather unsealed
- No menus written in Klingon
- No lossy compression in high speed
- Not without top LCD screen !!!!!!!!!!!
- No hipster retro dials BS
- No dead/stuck/in-comma pixels in the VF
Canon:
- But we've been doing that for ages - it's called DSLR
---
Because I'm not a professional, and Canon never asked me... :-D

 

[LDS]

Well.... the Photron high speed cameras top out at 29.4GB per second at dumping to memory....
If we assumed a 26Mpixel sensor, and dumped uncompressed RAW data to memory, that would be 646 full size uncompressed frames per second..... I think that 120 is possible.

Where do they record to? CFexpress 1.0 will top at 2GB/s, you'll need to wait a future development with 8 PCIe lanes ones to reach 8GB/s (30MB images at 120 per second are slightly less than 4GB/s)

But that require also a far powerful hardware inside the camera, you'll need also a fast CPU and fast memory to cope with that, and the power juice to run everything at those speeds, plus removing the heat produced.

But, anyway, do sport stills still sell well? Today I do expect short videos with showing the best actions from start to finish. Just hitting a ball or receiving one says very little.

 

[IglooEater]

I beg to differ ... simply taking a 5D4 and swapping [OVF + Mirror] for an EVF will in many people's opinion produce a worse camera, simply because an EVF is laggy and the viewfinder image quality is terrible compared to "real life" directly through the lens.

You drove right by my point. Mirrorless isn't about being categorically better/worse than SLRs -- it's another option that can do other things.

Like burst mode.....

A 1DX2 tops out at 14
A 7D2 tops out at 10

A mirror less should be able to hit 120

And fill up a 64 gig card in 22 seconds XD

And if you catch the baseball deforming as the bat hits it, you are much more likely to sell that photo..... It all depends on what you are after. For those who need it, faster burst is wonderful!

Agreed, it could be put to amazing use! Sorry for sounding negative, I didn’t mean it.

 

[Deleted member 378875]

4. Dual native ISO

I've never shot this with ML. Would this not hamper the frame rate, buffer, etc?

8. 5 axis stablizer

If it's full EF mount, you aren't adapting old lenses, so what do you need IBIS for? Canon sells lenses with IS that outperform IBIS, do they not?

13. High Flash sync maybe up to 1000/s without HSS

That would require leaf shutter lenses, right? That's not happening.

Lovely list you gave, it would be a terrific camera. But my guess is you won't get much of that. Expect a mirrorless variant of the 6D2, 5D4 or 5DS2 (if they wait that long).

- A

For me, one big advantage of IBIS would be the ability to buy a Sigma 85mm ART f/1.4 (or the 135mm) and couple it with a Canon camera and have the huge benefit of image stabilization in low light situations.

Reading Dustin's review it seems that the Sigma lens has the edge over the new Canon 85mm f/1.4 in terms of resolution - and is cheaper.

... and that's one reason why I suspect that Canon my *not* give us IBIS !!

 

[duckshots]

I want a 40 mm fixed lens, full frame. I'd settle for a 35mm, 1.4. Flash optional, but I want a shoe, a tilt screen and a high quality EVF.