Here are some crazy Canon EOS R1 specifications [CR0]

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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At first, this whole 21mp and 85mp makes no sense, but when you start thinking, it kind of does.
Let me explain.

On a normal 20 mp sensor, you have 20 million diodes. each pixel is covered with the bayer pattern which identifies every single pixel as either green, blue or red.

Since canon introduced dual pixel technology, we effectively had 40 million diodes on a "20mp" bayer sensor. That is 2 diodes hiding behind each green, blue or red screen. The 2 diodes have made the dual pixel focusing possible calculating the micro-contrast between each set of 2 diodes for a global "phase difference". Hence the name "dual pixel" because indeed it's 2 pixels effectively behind each bayer piece.

Now, since those dual pixels (diodes) were arranged in such a way that they were twice as tall as they are large, it didn't make sense to read them as separate pixels for purposes of resolving the image. Pixels would have been twice as high as they are large.
View attachment 196136
This would have caused visible "stepping" or aliasing problem. Their only purpose was for focusing. So a 40 million diode sensor was still 20mp since each bayer piece was counted as 1 pixel. In other words, the input information of the 2 diodes were combined into 1 output pixel to keep everything square and proper.

But now, with introduction of quad pixel technology which further improves focusing, we solve the problem we had bafore with only 2 diodes behind each bayer screen. You effectively have 4 diodes (pixels) behind each green, blue or red bayer screen. This is a 2 by 2 square. Each diode being the same size. This means that you have 2 options of how you can read the information. You have a total of 80 million diodes. Either you read them as a 20mp sensor - 4 diodes behind each red, green, blue screen constitute one pixel - or your read each diode (so 80 million of them) as an indivudual pixel and simply modify your debayering algorithms.

Now, these debayering calculations would be way more complex and more taxing on the processor (I think up to 16 times) if you decided to use all 80 million diodes as pixels instead of using only the 20mp resolution, but it's possible. Hence, shooting 20 mp at 30 frames seems reasonable, but 20 frames at 80 mp seems a little sketchy. I think 10 fps at 80pm would be quite the achievement with the processing power involved. Unless they throw 2 current X processors into the R1, who knows how much processing power that actually is... maybe enough for 20 fps at 80mp despite the heavy processing needed.

Or, rather than do all of those debayering calculations, you could just make the Bayer mask the size of the diodes and use conventional debayering for 84MP and use pixel binning for 21MP. No real debayering needed, only color channel multipliers to adjust WB.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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Why would Canon call a 90 million photodiode sensor a 45 million pixel sensor if that was how they were looking at it?

A 21mp quad sensor would have 84 million photodiodes but according to Canon themselves, in it's current format/definition, would still only be a 21mp sensor.

Like I have said across threads now it isn't me that is splitting hairs on the terminology but we are going to have a whole load more threads on this if that is what they are doing.

Personally I never fully appreciated the distinction Canon have made, but they have, so now we might be looking at an interesting time of backpedaling and re-education on the finer points and definitions of pixels vs photodiodes.

Because rectangles vs. squares?
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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I 100% agree with you, and I think this is what makes the most sense for Canon in this "new" 8k pro market. At the very least, whatever pro camera Canon releases will have to have a 20-ish megapixel mode for the pro photographers who simply don't need the resolution. I would definitely shoot most of my general assignment R5 images at 20 megapixels if there was an option for a raw, 20 megapixel output.

At the same time, if the R1 also was able to do 80 megapixels, that's a huge added value for portrait and landscape work when 80 megapixels is a bonus. Add to that, it would be totally possible to switch between a full sensor 20 megapixel low light mode and a 30 megapixel 1.6x crop mode, which also would help make the R1 into an absolutely excellent camera for wildlife/birding photographers, on top of news and sports photographers. It would truly be a no-compromise pro model across the board, and I think a ~$7500+ price tag would be survivable for the people who could replace multiple cameras with one.

The problem with replacing multiple cameras with one is when you want to hang two different lenses on them at the same time...
 
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SteveC

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Sep 3, 2019
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Just had a talk with a "Canon Explorer". Don't expect the R1 to compete with the Sony A1, Nikon Z or even the Canon R5 from a resolution perspective.

I wouldn't; the 1 series has historically been firmly wedded to lower-than-possible resolutions. If someone were to look ONLY at that (as the typical consumer has been invited to do), they'd wonder what the heck Canon is thinking calling it a flagship camera and charging that much for it.
 
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GoldWing

Canon EOS 1DXMKII
Oct 19, 2013
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en.wikipedia.org
I wouldn't; the 1 series has historically been firmly wedded to lower-than-possible resolutions. If someone were to look ONLY at that (as the typical consumer has been invited to do), they'd wonder what the heck Canon is thinking calling it a flagship camera and charging that much for it.
Hi, I don't think that's the ONLY thing we're looking at, but not a blind eye. With the advancements in the market today from sony, nikon, fuji I don't think many will tollerate dumbed down resolution any longer. Not somone who would have to spend $50K+ to transition over.
 
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SteveC

R5
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Sep 3, 2019
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Hi, I don't think that's the ONLY thing we're looking at, but not a blind eye. With the advancements in the market today from sony, nikon, fuji I don't think many will tollerate dumbed down resolution any longer. Not somone who would have to spend $50K+ to transition over.

We're not "typical consumers" and many were willing to do 20MP for the other benefits; in fact many found that a positive benefit.

Whether A) your attitude is typical in the 1-series customer base (maybe most disagree with you) and B) Canon recognizes this, will make a marked difference in what happens.
 
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john1970

EOS R3
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Dec 27, 2015
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Some interesting recent post. Given Adobe's recently announced 'Super Resolution' enhancement mode I am curious on what Canon is going to release for the R1. Once Canon updates the R5 firmware with Canon RAW light and Canon Log 3 they will, in my opinion, have a decent 8K EOS R camera. For the R1 I would rather see a lower MP body (between 24-30 MP) with solid dynamic range, quad-pixel AF, a global shutter, and world-class high ISO noise performance. I suspect we will know the answer by Q3 2021 with a release in Q4 2021 to Q1 2022.
 
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GoldWing

Canon EOS 1DXMKII
Oct 19, 2013
404
279
Los Angeles, CA
en.wikipedia.org
We're not "typical consumers" and many were willing to do 20MP for the other benefits; in fact many found that a positive benefit.

Whether A) your attitude is typical in the 1-series customer base (maybe most disagree with you) and B) Canon recognizes this, will make a marked difference in what happens.
No I'm not a typical consumer I work for one of the largest sports agencies in the world. I would be replacing 24 kits and for us that's 56 bodies and their associated glass.

There is (are) no benefit(s) of a governed or limited 20MP that cannot be adjusted while shooting.

This technology has been in camera since the 1DX and its very simple to shoot at a reduced file size in RAW and JPG. This 20MP, straw dog or red harring is played out. If someone wants to shoot at 20MP let them perhaps they want to shoot at 8MP, let them. But there is no reason to limit the resolution any longer, that thinking and technology was even in the original 1DX in 2011/2

One has to wonder why people don't look at A1, R5, Nikon z, and even the 1DXMKIII and realize decreasing file size is eazy on "the buffer" ROFL.

It's about time our industry matured with equipment that is comprehensive.
 
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ok, so given that the Z9 will supposedly do 8K and have a stacked sensor... Let's just assume it (the Z9) will rival the Sony A1 overall. Then the R1 needs to pretty much match that. I for one expect it will. If it was to be slower with lower resolution and a higher pricetag, that would be like when Sony released the A900 without video capabilities just when the Canon 5DmkII came out (except the Sony A900 at least had a price advantage)
 
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Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
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Can you? It seems the R5 can't be set to shoot slower than 20 fps in electronic shutter mode.
I haven't yet bought the R5 so I can't answer that but all I would care about is the number in a burst. If Canon doesn't allow that control, it's an oversight or bad design.

Jack
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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Someone has way too much time on his hands...

Someone else needs to mind their own business. I don't tell you how to budget your time. You don't need to waste your time worrying about how I spend mine on the one or two days a month I even visit this site.
 
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