Here is what Canon is announcing next, including the EOS R7, EOS R10 and RF-S lenses [CR3]

[Hector1970]

Maybe.

My experience with the 1DxIII, R5 and R3 has shown me that in real world use, old assumptions about sensors are just that: "old assumptions."

Old assumption: a high resolution sensor is noisier than a lower resolution sensor at higher ISOs. Real world experience: The high resolution R5 sensor and the sensors in the 1Dx III and R3 show virtually identical levels of noise at higher ISOs. There may be a difference, but when translated to a final product, I have found that the differences are not that significant. It follows that the noise factor in an APS-C sensor, while certainly there, is likely to be much less in real world use than it once was.

So yes, in theory, a FF sensor and great white lens will deliver better IQ than an APS-C sensor and a shorter lens. But in practice I think most people will find that the difference in IQ is less than one might expect. I suspect that the greater difference will lie in the fact that a big white has a wider aperture, which allows for greater separation of subject from background, along with the inherent sharpness of a big white prime that costs upwards of $10,000.

A great white lens with an APS-C sensor does not necessarily mean distant subjects. Most songbirds are not so far away to cause problems with atmospheric effects, rather they are simply small.

Finally, let's be realistic. Not everyone can afford a big white and even those who can afford one may not always finds it practical or desirable to carry one around. Ultimately, it always comes down to the tradeoffs. Canon apparently believes that enough people will find the trade-offs inherent in an R7 are worth the advantages.

I have no doubt that the R7 will be a great camera and that many photographers will produce great photos that will be indistinguishable from photos shot with other combinations.

Yes good point about that it’s small birds that are “nearish” that it would be useful for. I’d also agree a big white is often not practical. I am lucky enough to have the 600mm F4 and it’s great except it’s big and heavy and requires a gimbal head and sturdy tripod. It’s a lot of gear to move and manoeuvre with. A sigma 150-600 might not be the same quality but it’s far more flexible and you are more likely to get a shot and can hand hold it. Pixels on the target are important. I think the R7 will be a good asset to bird photographers.

 

[David render]

This R10 is clearly not a 90d replacement, it's more a 1300d replacement, so the numbering system is changing, the 90d must therefore be an R8, then the 850d's replacement will most likely be the R9. This R10 is entry level. I'm wondering if the R7 is even worth the wait, especially if they use an old sensor from the 90d. I'm more interested in performance than cost as we are ripped off by canon anyways, the R5 is more in pounds than dollars, even though it's still 1.22 to the pound. How can they justify £4,300 against $3,800?

 

[Bahrd]

Fear cripples me and I am unable to put it in the cart, if I buy one the next day they will release a 1.
In reality I will be waiting another year or two.

Have you considered a fund? I believe there are many people waiting for R1 who will pay a few bucks to get it quicker.
And you will eat your cake and have it too!

 

[Skyscraperfan]

I hope the R10 will get IBIS. That is the single most useful advantage of mirrorless cameras. And with a smaller sensor IBIS could even have a larger effect when you use a full frame lense.

It is unlikely that the R7 and R10 will have a new mount. That only made sense with DSLRs, because there a smaller mirror made it possible that the lens can reach further into the body. That advantage vanishes, if there is no mirror at all.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

Back in the 7D II days "reach" was tested. Smaller pixels do not translate to the 1.6 crop. The 7D II gave you about 20% of what people term "reach" over the 5D II. Then came along the 5Ds R and "reach" no longer existed.

The 5Ds R cost much more than the 7D II.
Having a higher MP camera does not nullify the concept of reach.
It is buying what I need instead of more than I need and cropping in.

 

[mpmark]

That was not the best naming system.
The 90D has to be the end of the line since they ran out of numbers.

Oh numbers stop after 90? Interesting

 

[bf]

Next year: rumour has it a full frame version of R10 will be announced that would likely end M5,6 and R10. We have a surprise: the name has no digits in it!? It will be RPii. Now start commenting!

 

[lote82]

The 5Ds R cost much more than the 7D II.
Having a higher MP camera does not nullify the concept of reach.
It is buying what I need instead of more than I need and cropping in.

Exactly...
If I want filet mignon, I buy filet mignon instead of the whole damn cow!

 

[lote82]

I am not sure why you would be happy that a system, beloved by many, will be discontinued. Seems rather despicable.

I am a content user of a M5, but I would have been happy to upgrade to a M5 II. If that will never come, than I see no reason to stay with Canon. Too bad, I really liked the concept of the dedicated APS-C mount, rather than the unified mount for both FF and APS-C.

Did I say I'm happy that M system will be discontinued? Maybe you should read again...

I'm happy APS-C RF cameras are finally coming (while many M users claimed this will never happen!). Maybe you should wait and see what's coming from Canon. I think they will address M users in some way (even if it's not M mount)!

 

[Franklyok]

what about RF 20-40 pancake ?

Rumors: new Canon RF 20-40mm f/4 STM pancake lens in development - Photo Rumors

There are some rumors coming from China indicating that Canon is working on a new RF 20-40mm f/4 STM full-frame mirrorless pancake lens. Related posts: The TTArtisan 40mm f/2.8 APS-C macro lens is now available also for Nikon Z, Canon R and Canon EOS-M mounts Another new Rockstar lens: 40mm...

photorumors.com

 

[mpwolken]

I hope the lenses will be a bit higher quality than EF-M variants but i doubt it.

The EF-M lenses are not low quality. The lenses are not full frame nor designed for it, but have similar performance on an APS-C sensor as full frame Canon (non-L) glass has on a full frame Canon camera. At least one lens does play on a level with L-glass, the 32mm F1.4. The 11-22 IS is not "exceeded" by any non-L lens made for APS-C by Canon to date; in fact, it crushes the others in the same range on size and weight. I have the R6, 5D Mark II and M6 Mark II. The R6 enables IBIS and full frame video for me in one nice package, but it is not compact. I may add an R7 as well when it is available, but mostly for wildlife; I'm not going to be pocketing it like I do with the M6 Mark II and a 22mm F2.0.

 

[mpwolken]

Fear cripples me and I am unable to put it in the cart, if I buy one the next day they will release a 1.
In reality I will be waiting another year or two.

Based on the pellicle mirror patent, I'm expecting the R1 to have a pellicle mirror allowing "mirrored mirrorless" so you don't need to futz with an EVF, but I expect a transparent overlay EVF capability so that you'll be able to see all the pertinent info overlayed on a directly visible scene. I also expect that you will be able to "exposure peak" meaning turn on a full EVF in the viewfinder if you want it.

 

[takesome1]

The 5Ds R cost much more than the 7D II.
Having a higher MP camera does not nullify the concept of reach.
It is buying what I need instead of more than I need and cropping in.

The 5Ds had the same pixel density as the 7D II. Any perceived reach benefit that you believe the 7D II had is purely an illusion created by a "crop".
If you need a cheaper body, or faster frame rate then it might be for you.
Still you have to weight he other cons of the crop body vs a full frame body.

 

[lote82]

I don't know man, seems plenty happy to me. Malevolent even.

Indeed ... you really don't know! This quote is from another thread!

You should learn to read properly ...

I said I'm excited about the excuses M-lovers will find!
So again ... Did I say I'm happy that M system will be discontinued?

"Happy" that it "will be discontinued" were your words not mine!

 

[takesome1]

Based on the pellicle mirror patent, I'm expecting the R1 to have a pellicle mirror allowing "mirrored mirrorless" so you don't need to futz with an EVF, but I expect a transparent overlay EVF capability so that you'll be able to see all the pertinent info overlayed on a directly visible scene. I also expect that you will be able to "exposure peak" meaning turn on a full EVF in the viewfinder if you want it.

A long time ago before DSLR's went the way of the dinosaur we had something like this, it was called shooting in live view.

I looked this up to see what you were talking about, maybe it is a possibility but I give the discontinuation of the M line a higher probability.

 

[neuroanatomist]

A long time ago before DSLR's went the way of the dinosaur we had something like this, it was called shooting in live view.

Go back farther…

PELLIX - Canon Camera Museum

Here, you can find out about Canon's Film Cameras > F > PELLIX.

global.canon

I looked this up to see what you were talking about, maybe it is a possibility but I give the discontinuation of the M line a higher probability.

I don’t think it’s likely, because I don’t think losing half the light to the sensor is something people would want in a one series camera.

 

[takesome1]

I don’t think it’s likely, because I don’t think losing half the light to the sensor is something people would want in a one series camera.

My first thought was that it would loose light. The 1 series was known for having a better view finder than other bodies and this will be very true.

So a question, is the EVF on the R3 better than the other R bodies?

 

[Woody]

Someone said there won't be any RF-S lenses... Ooops...

 

[unfocused]

This R10 is clearly not a 90d replacement, it's more a 1300d replacement, so the numbering system is changing, the 90d must therefore be an R8, then the 850d's replacement will most likely be the R9. This R10 is entry level...

Or, quite possibly, the R10 is analogous but not identical to the old XXD series in that it will be positioned 1 step below the R7. There was never enough separation between the XXD and the 7D, which may have cut into 7D sales. Canon may be simply correcting what they consider a mistake with their previous positioning, putting more space between the RXX series and the RX series.

Of course, it is their numbering system and they can do whatever they want with it.

 

[blackcoffee17]

The EF-M lenses are not low quality. The lenses are not full frame nor designed for it, but have similar performance on an APS-C sensor as full frame Canon (non-L) glass has on a full frame Canon camera. At least one lens does play on a level with L-glass, the 32mm F1.4. The 11-22 IS is not "exceeded" by any non-L lens made for APS-C by Canon to date; in fact, it crushes the others in the same range on size and weight. I have the R6, 5D Mark II and M6 Mark II. The R6 enables IBIS and full frame video for me in one nice package, but it is not compact. I may add an R7 as well when it is available, but mostly for wildlife; I'm not going to be pocketing it like I do with the M6 Mark II and a 22mm F2.0.

Some M lenses have great image quality but zooms like the 15-45 or 18-150 are nothing special and built like some cheap toys almost.